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i'm from nj and haven't been playing for a while - so i think playing doomsday is out of the question. that being said i might play this deck. (it's been a long time since i've played it, is the new land very good in the deck?)Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
i don't mind netdecking your latest list rock since it's your baby.
Rock,
As someone said earlier, the list currently has a difficult matchup versus RUG. The specific list I'm talking about was the one with oblivion stone, but the current Thespian Stage version I find to be an even worse matchup since repeal is gone. The sideboard really doesn't have much in the way of answers either. The meta where I play is guaranteed to have at least one ANT player and one RUG player at all times, so things are looking rough now. Any thoughts?
If disruption is that much of a problem, Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and countermagic in general are your friends because they shoot all those cards (except Wasteland).Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Additional Comment:
It took a few test runs with Rock's latest list with a friend* today after reading the first post about the deck being "softer", but I noticed what's coming up about RUG (even though my friend was the MUD player) is that the mainboard is now a less of a Control tricks deck and closer to a glass cannon type deck similar to my R/G Tron deck in Modern. I wasn't going to say anything because that's not a bad thing because I love my R/G Tron deck, but the play-style is closer to RG Tron than classic 12-Post that I was playing with Pithing Needle and Repeal. One thing that I can say is that the MUD match-up looks a little better mainly because Oblivion Stone wipes out all their tricks.Quote:
Originally Posted by js1701d
*I'd like to thank my friend for letting me proxy up the cards I didn't have, namely Exploration.
I might try this deck in a tournament this weekend.
This should give a pretty good idea about how an idiot with no experience with the deck (or any relevant Show and Tell experience, and minor Standard ramp/Valakut experience) can do with this deck.
Another thing is my lack of certain cards such as Oblivion Stones and Thespian Stages (yes, I know...). So I will run something akin to this:
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Primeval Titan
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Repeal
2 All is Dust
As for the sideboard, I only can find 3 Flusterstorms, and getting to 4 will probably be a crucial priority. Right now I am running this:
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Flusterstorm
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Elephant Grass
1 Blue Elemental Blast
Well, if I end up playing this, I will let y'all know how it went.
Went 4-0 at our local FNM Legacy.
Still using the 4 Brainstorm 4 Show and Tell build and 0 Thespian Stages and Exploration.
I replaced 1 Repeal with 1 Oblivion Stone but I couldn't find space for the 2nd one.
Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce
3 Flusterstorm
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Elephant Grass
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrel Valle
1 Pithing Needle
Didn't face any new decks so it did well.
2 Esper Stoneblade
1 Goblins
1 TES
How are the exploration builds so far?
Did the Goblin deck run Skullcrack? I ask because someone on the MTGSalvation thread said that it shreds Glimmerpost and Glacial Chasm defenses. I was asking because I wanted to know how you reacted to it if you ran into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Also, nothing much on the Exploration build at the moment (other than "Thespian's Stage" jokes) because most of my Legacy friends (and me) are busy at the moment with school:frown:. A rulings question did come up though with Thespian's Stage:
If I have Vesuva enter the battlefield copying a Thespian's Stage copying a Cloudpost, will Vesuva enter as a Cloudpost with Thespian's Stage's transformation ability?
So I've been following this deck for a while, was curious as to how we're doing with the mono green build for us budget players.
I'm curious as to what out tools are against fast combo decks, as we lose out on flusterstorm and brainstorm for filtering. Also, what would be a fully updated list for mono green (more thespian's stages, I'd imagine)?
Chalice of the Void, Mindbreak Trap, maybe thorn of amythest?
I'm a huge fan of this deck and want to work my way towards having the full list, shows and all. Right now the only reason I'm not full UG is the price of Tropicals, and I think the mono-green list could have merit in it's own right as a possibly faster variant. Thanks a ton for any and all input, and thanks for the great list Rock Lee.
Goblin decks won't run Skullcrack just for us. We are such a minority in the Meta that decks won't really pack hate against us. Problem is most burn decks will run Skullcrack if they're smart. It counters so many things, even Circle of Protection: Red!
Glacial Chasm has saved me so many times against Goblins, for me it's pretty even with a slight edge with Turbo Eldrazzi, because if they don't draw Wastelands we have time to set up. Show and Tell Primeval Titan or Emrakul is pretty much gg for them as well.
The odds are probably 60/40 or maybe 70/30 in our favor. Sometimes Goblins just have the nuts and kill us too fast.
I know that Goblins wouldn't play Skullcrack just for us. But we're not the only deck that plays life gain or damage prevention though... Batterskull and Wurmcoil Engine come to mind. I trying to bring up Skullcrack because it is a red card that lets red deck do their red things all the while preventing other decks anti-red from getting in the way. The honest biggest worry I have with Goblins is their side plan tends to be Surgical Extraction a Wastelanded Cloudpost.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
And even against burn, I wouldn't say Skullcrack justifies a change in Glacial Chasm or Glimmerpost because they can't Skullcrack every Glimmerpost trigger or turn off Glacial Chasm all the time.
If you want to talk budget, there needs to be a ballpark number attached to how much to a single you are hypothetically willing to pay out. The only true non-budget cards 12-Post can't live without are the Eldrazi, who are currently at the $20 mark with the likelihood of rising as they continue to be used in Legacy and Modern with no reprint.Quote:
Originally Posted by fisharu
This is the latest Rock Lee has posted on a Mono-Green BuildQuote:
Originally Posted by fisharu
+Plus+Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
The thing is that this isn't budget. I'm going to assume that you don't want to pay triple digit prices, so that cuts out Tropical Island (you can run Breeding Pool if you want blue that bad), Tabernacle, Candelabra, and Karakas if you don't any of them. If the most you're willing to spend on singles are the Eldrazi and only because they are necessary (again, unless you already own them), you lose out on a lot more like Misty Rainforest, Wasteland, and Crucilbe. One the flip side, the fortunate thing of a tight budget is that with the holes and depending on what you are willing to buy, there is room to test out a full play set of Thespian's Stage as a 16-Post deck and other uncommon goodies, so feel free to go nuts. As Mark Rosewater said, "Restriction breeds creativity."Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I think "Budget" was too strong a word, perhaps "less expensive" would've been a better phrase to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mockingbird
No, this deck isn't strictly budget, but saving 200 on show and tells and 200+ on duals, 100 on misties does bring the tag down a bit. I'm already dedicated to this deck, and if candles weren't +100 a piece I'd already have most of the deck. I'm just trying to come up with essentially a build without show and tell + expensive mana base in order to try and cut costs initially.
I tested Rock's mono green build last night with some success other than getting t1'd against my friend's TES deck a few times during g1's, but that's going to happen without forces. I'm thinking of putting a ug version together with sticks and ducttape (breeding pools + random fetches + explore instead of show) just to have a tournament playable deck put together. Mono Green's total lack of combo-oriented board cards really hurts it, and flusterstorm is honestly the best card I could be running against most combo, so honestly I'll just shove in explores and make it work with the ghetto blue splash.
This deck is fantastic, I've been following it's development for months. Hope to see you on a feature match camera sometime soon, Post players.
I believe they still wouldn't play Skullcracks. They have goblins that kill artifacts so it's not really relevant against Stoneblade. Yep I never said that we should remove the Glacial Chasms or Glimmerpost but the match has turned from 50-50 to unfavored. I can't think of a good sideboard card against BURN at the moment. They have access to so many cards that kill us. Price of Progress, Sulfuric Vortex and Skull Crack!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mockingbird
I can only think of siding in 3 Flusterstorm, 3 Spell Pierce and 3 Chalice for the match up. I was thinking of countering some burn so you can get the Eldrazzi or Titan plan going and kill them.
Also, 12-post in the Top 8 of SCG again!!! I Hope it wins it all :)
12 Post
Austin Katzin
8th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 2/10/2013
Creatures (7)
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Lands (27)
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Tropical Island
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
Spells (27)
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
4 Oblivion Stone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
Sideboard
3 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Flusterstorm
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Lost to Sneak Show :(
0 Pithing Needle Build with 4 Oblivion Stones
In terms of burn, I think Blue Elemental Blast just worked up on the importance scale. Plus it also catches other decks besides burn as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
On Goblins, alright. I see what you are saying. Unless there is a meta shift that makes Skullcrack necessary in Goblins, they really don't need the effect as bad as burn. It may see tests, but until then, I say we just move on that front since this isn't a Goblin thread after all. Maybe I'll go peek in on them and see if they've even said anything about Skullcrack... :really:
My notes:Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
About Pithing Needle, Surgical Extraction served in its place, so while it wasn't there in body, Austin was still siding with the spirit of Pithing Needle (I know you should know; I'm noting this for the passerby's that will wonder through this thread). Granted it's reactive instead of proactive, but it's also more permanent than Pithing Needle, too.
I'm not sure how much I like four Oblivion Stone main deck, but I see why he did it. It's for the same reason that I now main one Venser, Shaper Savant. It's relevance comes up so much that having it game 1 is worth making the room.
Speaking of Venser, there isn't any anywhere in this 75. I'm a cross between intrigued and disappointed (it's Show and Tell's Enemy is why). I could see the decision for Mindbreak Trap over it since Trap stops combo flat.
The more I play Trinket Mage, the more I like it. Personally, I would have moved an Oblivion Stone to the side and done something to something else to make room for a pair of them because the utility of getting our most important artifacts is amazing. Just like how Eldrazi can solve anything the deck needs, our one drop artifacts do a lot of the same as well. But then again, unlike the Eldrazi, they aren't as necessary, so I'm going to credit it to a play style and meta decision.
This is going to be my most petty question and may just be me in my blind ignorance, but why is he running a basic Forest? I know that it's for the Green, but he runs more blue main board, and post board, he runs a LOT more blue. I think it should have been a Thespian's Stage, Island, or heck, even a Breeding Pool if he wants to up his dual count over four.*
*Eh... while I'll defend Island and Thespian's Stage, in the long run I'd likely run a Forest over Breeding Pool, but that Forest just stands out.
All that said, I like his deck a lot. He did a lot of things right, and the results speak for themselves (Top 32 is doing something right in my book, so Top 8... that's a major achievement). And even though I scratch my head on a couple of his choices, making it as far as he did just goes to show the flexibility the deck can engineer to where these varying choices and play styles are all viable. I look forward to mining Star City games for footage of him playing or if time doesn't permit, someone mining it up for all of us to watch.
Too bad Jeremiah didn't make the top8 as well, i'm curious what list he was playing.
I'm curious to Rock Lee's Report. He also had a win and in match or maybe nearly a win and in match. He was at the top tables before the last round.
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/119.jpg
suggest for mono green build
I'm Austin, and this is my first time posting on The Source, but I felt it was worth responding to some of this. I'm fairly new to Eldrazi, having only played it in a few tournaments, and have done very little testing outside of those. My card choices were largely based on discussions with Rock Lee, and the conclusions he came to as a result of his testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mockingbird
About specific cards:
Forest - This was entirely my choice. I like to have at least one basic for each color in the deck, as insurance against Wasteland. I know it's probably suboptimal, but I like to know that I will always have one reliable green source.
Surgical Extraction - This is one of Rock's suggestions. Surgical serves as extra graveyard hate, protection from opposing Surgicals, and recurring or multiple Wastelands. Because it is so flexible, Rock has been trying builds that use it.
Oblivion Stone - This card is AMAZING. With all the Jund, BUG, Junk, and other permanent-based decks out there, having this card will often win you the game just by hitting the table. Again, this was one of Rock's suggestions, and I was extremely happy with it's performance. Along with the decks I mentioned before, it saved me against Rest in Peace combo, and would have won me a second game against Sneak and Show in the quarters if I hadn't played right into his Stifle. I was not unhappy with having four main deck at all.
Venser - Venser wasn't present because of the decline in popularity of Omnitell. Venser is amazing in that match-up, but does little against Sneak and Show, which will often be able to put one of their fatties into play in response to the Venser trigger. O-Stone, which is better against Sneak and Show, can serve a similar purpose against Omnitell by destroying the Omniscience, either preventing them from using it to win, or destroying the Emrakul. (again, a Rock Lee suggestion)
I would like to attribute my place in the tournament to skill, but much of it was simply getting easy pairings. Unfortunately, I did not take notes during the matches, and so do not have enough information to give a full tournament report.
Congrats on the Top 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
What were your pairings for the event, if you still remember?
I watched your win-and-in against the Miracle Helm deck, and he made a horrible misplay against you Game 2, which gave you the opening to win the whole thing. Emrakul really makes people panic, doesn't he? haha!
Cool. It's nice to meet you. I'm not that surprised and congratulations on the Top 8. First, I would like to apologize if I sounded scathing in any manner; I'm not. Even though I have things to say, I still understand my place until I have my SCG Top 8, I don't know better. I just ask questions and throw ideas against the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
The honest truth is that the Locus deck is forgiving enough that it really doesn't matter what happens with the free two slots that generally go for Basic lands. Even though I scratched my head, like I said, it's petty and ultimately, if the Forest was actually a problem, then it'd be gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
I know. I discovered the power of SE through backlogging the Eldrazi threads here and having my Cloudpost SE'ed once. I was acknowledging that in my own post and think it's a good decision. In fact, the only reason for someone to play Pithing Needle over Surgical Extraction at this point in time is really because Pithing Needle can be fetched with Trinket Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
Good to know. I didn't think that you would be. I suppose I should give a little more on Oblivion Stone because I play it in 12-Post and in my Modern R/G Tron deck, and yes, I agree it's amazing. Locus needed a sweeper, and I'm not surprised this filled the spot. My thing about 4 Oblivion Stone is that I generally just don't need 4 Game 1 in either deck because those decks tend to be doing their own thing rather than specifically hating me out, which I tend to be able to handle with one, sometimes two O-Stones. Postboard I have a lot more to worry about; however, given your Top 8, I just might try putting all four to main-deck work, or with a combination of All is Dust.Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
True, but the one thing that I still love about Venser is that he's been good for me because I like the Capsize style set-up I get between him and Karakas. However, while that's cute and works for me and where I'm located in a Legacy... Lukewarm spot, on a larger scale, I've known for awhile that Oblivion Stone is working towards replacing him (along with some other cards that have been commonly played in the past).Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
It does say something though when you get that many "easy" pairings. I've always found skill to be an abstract and overrated aspect of a Trading Card Game (it's a long story involving Yu-Gi-Oh as well as Magic, so if you want to know, please PM me; don't ask here). But regardless, I can say that you played the tournament smart, which is an achievement. Once again, congratulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
They finally posted Jeremiah's list in SCG:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=52981
He was just short of Top 16... bad pairings perhaps?
I'm just curious. why is this card so amazing?Quote:
Originally Posted by kulkat
In my point of view: Jund, BUG and Junk all run Abrupt Decay. Why would it be so great to just put Oblivion Stone on the table?
It's also exposed to opposing Oblivion Rings and such.
And against those decks you are the one running alot of artifacts, not them! Especially relevant are Pithing Needle and Candelabra which you'll lose when cracking O-Stone.
Several avantages of All is Dust over O--stone:
I find the power of being unexpected and cast directly from the hand much bigger. To do this with O-stone it costs 1 mora mana and you're exposed to both counterspells and Stifles all in the same turn!!
Another advantage of All is Dust is ability to cost less with Eye of Ugin.
I don't see how it's so much better than All is Dust? Can someone plase explain.
O-Stone kills MUD (one of our terrible match-ups game 1), and is an out against SnT decks because it kills Emrakul as well. It also kills Helm of Obedience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurt
Its weakness to Abrupt Decay is easily remedied by activating it the turn it comes into play, or if you have to play it early, by providing a good Abrupt Decay target to your opponent as bait (Most players start getting nervous when I play a Candelabra, for example).
If your local meta doesn't run a lot of Emrakuls and Helms, then All is Dust is probably better.
Biggest reasons off the top of my head: Obilvion Stone hits artifacts too... and during your opponent's turn, which All is Dust does neither.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurt
Well, yes. But in response to all the cards you just mentioned, we can generally just detonate the Oblivion Stone, which is why Stifle is the only real concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurt
Two things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurt
1. Those cards are not as necessary to win as you imply. Yes, they are amazing at what they do, but we can play around Wasteland without Pithing Needle and Candelabra adds speed, not inevitability.
2. The Locus player controls when they put their cards out. Just because I have Candelabra in hand doesn't mean that I have to play it right away.
The power to wipe the field during your opponent's turn is the counterpoint that comes to mind. An opponent may see the giant bomb we just through out sitting there, but what they don't see is what will cause the player to detonate. And that means that they have to force detonation, which is a value play for us and potentially a misplay for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurt
My rule of thumb with Eye of Ugin: let the Annihilator or Infinite turns solve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurt
One thing I'm curious at trying is a 1-2 Split of All is Dust-Oblivion Stone like my Modern Tron deck. But that said, O-Stone is either an :8: bomb or a :3:: set the bomb, and at any later point :5:: Planar Cleansing, and if the opponent's can't outplay the O-Stone fast enough, it also gives us time to sink mana into Fate Counters. All is Dust is just a reset button, which is great, but... not flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurt
Hi all, sorry for my bad English
I really like Turbo Eldrazi deck, i played a lot blue/green list, but now i'm testin mono green list, i think it's amazing!
The core:
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Supplemental spells:
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop rotation
4 Exploration
3 Manabond
4 Beast Within
3 Exedition Map
3 Phiting Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
Lands:
5 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Glacial Chasm
What do you think about this list?
:smile:
I could draw into top 8 if I had won my round 8 pairing, I lost it though, so drew for an auto into top 32 with a friend, which is 100$ prize. My two losses were both to Show & tell, one Omnitell, for which I had altered my sideboard to remove vensers, and still had a very close match. The second, Sneaky was a culmination of them having absurd hands to my mediocre mulligans.Quote:
Originally Posted by SBGpinas
Deck is still strong, might need a stronger showing for handling griselbrand, possibly one needle. O-stone completely saved the matchup from being a miserable failure.
What were the rest of your pairings for that event?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
If you were to make a change to your current list, knowing what the weaknesses are, what would you do?
We're currently trying a list that contains both Pithing Needle and O-stone, but seeing as these two cards don't really interact in the best way, we might just remove Pithing Needle altogether. Still, its ability to shut down Sneak Attack, Griselbrand, Liliana of the Veil, among others, simply cannot be ignored, Abrupt Decay notwithstanding.
Hey guys, i want to attend a small local tourney with this deck on sunday and my concerns are as always sideboarding strategies... in example, would you bring in flusterstorms against jund? and against an aggro bug? and against a more controlish-version? Also, when would you side your surgical extractions, against any black based deck that runs wasteland?
Thanks for your advices
trying a new build that addresses both Sneaky-show weaknesses and might make sideboarding easier. I'll get back to you tomorrow after work and class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davek
Hi everyone, I'm slowly putting the list together but I don't think I'll get candelabra in a near futur seeing its price (180€ or more),
So I'm looking to something to fill the spot MD, I've thought to the magus of the candelabra ou the mul daya creature that lets us put a land. What do you think I could play in this spot?
Thanks a lot for your advice
Oracle of Mul DayaQuote:
Originally Posted by SaintS
Magus of the Candelabra
Deserted Temple
Explore
Crucible of Worlds
Those are the cards that come to mind off the top of my head. None of these are as good as Candelabra itself, but they can pull their weight in their own unique way, Take your pick, but also keep in mind that Locus Lands can win games without Candelabra.
I would also highly interested in this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Thanks in advanced.
Stephan
I think for raw draw power I'd rather go into Stroke of Genius or Well of Knowledge, but I might give it a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by bizdoin
As for the others, I might try Mishra's Helix in my 16-Post MUD, but I think it might not be the best fit in the UG Turbo Eldrazi because by they time you would be casting it with the intent to shut down your opponent is probably about the same time you'd be shutting down your opponent with Emrakul+Karakas. The Into the Eye of Chaos might be interesting, but I think I'll stick to Flusterstorm for the time being... I might try it as a 1 of, or maybe work it into in a kind of UW Control-Post.
Rock Lee
i want to find out your opinion about two matchups: Goblins and Merfolks. we are talking about your current list
i test a lot these matchups and i consider them to be the worst our matchups. i cant understand, how we can win them without needles on wastelands? Goblins play potrs, that can beat us without candelabras
i understand, that our main plan is show and tell into titan or eldrazi. but merfols has so much counterspells =( Our mass removal is too slow against them because of wastelands. Certainly, we can generate paranoic sideboard against them:
Grass
Explosives
Propaganda
Moment's Peace
Drop of Honey
Ensnaring Bridge o_O
and so on. but all these cards are useless against really bad mutchups like Sneak and Combo
may be only in Moscow there people which play Goblins and Merfolks :laugh:yeah. they didnt here about Jund. But its true. the same problem with maverick in Moscow. their pilots play 4 Aven in main, that kill all our attempts to find necessary cards
waiting for your answers (((=
UPD! the last question: you are playing without forest. Didnt you have problems to cast titan for mana? playing this deck i find out, that if everything is ok, we won't have problems to go into show into titan on turn 3. But if we have problems we have to cast him for mana. and only 4 Tropical to do it. i am wrong?
If I may provide some input...Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxmatii
The thing with Goblins is that even without Pithing Needles, the matchup is winnable because of Glimmerpost and Glacial Chasm.
It's not every game where they open with a Turn 1 Lackey, Turn 2 Lackey into Chieftain and 2 Piledrivers. During their slower draws, you can survive long enough to either Show and Tell a Primeval Titan, or get enough lands to hard-cast it. Wastelands can be answered by Crop Rotation, and even if their Wastelands are successful, they would have to have an insane draw to get a 2nd and a 3rd to slow you down with.
My build has main deck Pithing Needles, and I only open with them a little less than half of the time, and I still have a very positive match-up against Goblins during games when I don't have it. Maybe you're just playing someone who is extremely lucky with their draws.
As for Merfolk, admittedly, it is one of the hardest aggro matchups. Still, you'd want to rely on Crop Rotation and Show and Tell to pull off a win. You can choke out their counterspells by continually playing a relevant spell one after another. Eventually they will run out of counters and you will resolve something relevant and it will give you enough breathing room to recover and kill them. This is more of an even matchup compared to Goblins without Pithing Needle main.
Still it makes me wonder how many Goblins and Merfolk exist in your local meta. If they're the prevalent deck, then of course you're better off putting Pithing Needles main. In a Junk, Jund, Esper meta, Pithing Needles are not as strong as in a Goblins/Merfolk metagame.
I have such a long list of experience against goblins that I can beat them without needle. Needle no doubt is an INCREDIBLE card against them, and to a novice player who can't edge out advantage elsewhere, I suggest md'ing needles if you have goblins in your meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxmatii
The ways I beat them involve two logic paths, supplemented by two strong answers post-side.
path 1: resolve a show & tell'd titan. no maindeck answers to this, that lets you either go for massive lifegain, or a chasm.
path 2: sit on chasm and win slowly but surely. This is always my plan B, and i never go for it first, but with needles main you can make it your plan A.
post-side
Bebs ruin them
Tabernacle lets them cry to overcommittment and unable to port you out.
Same concept as goblins, but you need to know what they will bite on for counters. They lack explosiveness, but make up for it in an array of weak counters. Test test test this matchup and it becomes easy. Even easier if they run standstill. Again without experience, just maindeck needles and call it a day.Quote:
and Merfolks.
In the sideboard I run a 4th show & 4th o-stone, and against almost all aggro matchups they are my bread and butter.
The O stones also come in against some forms of combo, which increases your sb efficiency greatly.
You forgot that titan's true mana cost is 2U. I never missed the forest.Quote:
UPD! the last question: you are playing without forest. Didnt you have problems to cast titan for mana? playing this deck i find out, that if everything is ok, we won't have problems to go into show into titan on turn 3. But if we have problems we have to cast him for mana. and only 4 Tropical to do it. i am wrong?
Rock, this is a question that came up in testing, as I blew it too early:
Under what circumstances is it correct to blow up your own Titan with an O-Stone? Because, once again, I punted hard on this question in my testing.
SBGpinas , Rock Lee
thank you for your answers. you gave me a lot to think about and test
I was wondering what kind of list I should be playing as I own at the moment 3 Tropical Islands, 3 Show and Tells, 1 Candelabra, and 1 Tabernacle. Also testing last night using Arianrhod's deck, each match against my friend who was on maverick I was blown out over and over by wasteland and knight tutoring up wastelands, even with crop rotation for the first few targets. I was never able to get enough steam to get started. I was wonder what the best way to combat that would be, I know part of the problem is not being proficient in the deck. Any and all advice is most welcome. And thank you.
The only concern based on what you wrote is that you only have 3 Tropical Islands. You can run either a Breeding Pool, another basic land, or a fetch in the slot. Multiple Candelabras and a full set of Show and Tell is nice, but the deck can survive with only three and a single Candelabra.Quote:
Originally Posted by doomedfire
Do you run Pithing Needle or Surgical Extraction? If you want to be unconventional, you can also try Stifle effects. Personally, I'm a fan of Pithing Needle because it's searchable by Trinket Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by doomedfire
This is my list (which he was borrowing last night):
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Show and Tell
1 All is Dust
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Repeal
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Trinket Mage
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
//SB
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Chalice of the Void
1 All is Dust
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Hibernation
There were Needles a while ago -- I found them to be more of a hassle than they're worth.