[Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

UR delver 2-1 (pharaoh did some overtime game 3 on his weak draws. he didn't draw any hate.)
spanish inquisition 2-0 (he fizzled game 1, game 2 mindbreak trap)
mono red goblins 2-0 (he had turn 1 lackey on the play, but his hand was awkward and i think he misused his lackey (prioritizing siege gang over ringleaders...he had 3. i got to therapy them away.)
dredge 1-2 sigh. he's faster. (he also misplayed last game b/c he could have dread returned iona on black. i untapped and could attack for 12 and hit a flayer, but whiffed on dread return.

ijoawefijaiwfje;oajwefo;ajwiefawoefij;oawfije. 4-1 again.

So close, lol.

Spanish inquisition lol!!

Anyone else having buckets of fun with Prized Amalgam?

I just cycled Street Wraith during my opponent's turn, dredged into Phantasmagorian, Narcomoeba, Ichorid and something else, responded to Narcomoeba's trigger by activating Phantasmagorian's ability, discarding two Prized Amalgams from my hand, Dread Return and other stuff, and started my second turn with Narcomoeba, two Prized Amalgams, and Ichorid on the battlefield.

Yes I am. It's nuts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scott

Anyone else having buckets of fun with Prized Amalgam?

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SO much fun, I got a message from an opponent the other day yelping "good effort, seems you've ran out of card for your next turn... GG" Flayer on board and 12 points of damage on end step quieted him promptly ;)

Niice. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

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Originally Posted by vieko

SO much fun, I got a message from an opponent the other day yelping "good effort, seems you've ran out of card for your next turn... GG" Flayer on board and 12 points of damage on end step quieted him promptly ;)

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Lol! Also, did he forget he'd get up to 16 damage during your next upkeep anyways? I mean, as long as he dies before you draw a card it's fine.

It's one of the reasons I run a Progenitus in my Spy lists - if my opponent is being a smart ass and thinks I'll die when he counters everything after my Spy flips the deck he just gets his butt kicked by Amalgams and Ichorids the next turn(s). Ichorids + Prized Amalgams + Nether Shadows + Narcomoebas equals up to 32 damage/turn. Or, you know, some obvious value with Flayer.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Lol! Also, did he forget he'd get up to 16 damage during your next upkeep anyways? I mean, as long as he dies before you draw a card it's fine.

It's one of the reasons I run a Progenitus in my Spy lists - if my opponent is being a smart ass and thinks I'll die when he counters everything after my Spy flips the deck he just gets his butt kicked by Amalgams and Ichorids the next turn(s). Ichorids + Prized Amalgams + Nether Shadows + Narcomoebas equals up to 32 damage/turn. Or, you know, some obvious value with Flayer.

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I think he didn't see the Amalgams returning on my end step when he made the comment. They would've returned on his / her end step if not mine winning the game regardless (if Flayer was still on board). I do run a Progenitus in the SB (Thanks @mistercakes) but hardly ever bring it.

It can be quite a lifesaver sometimes. I know I've lost games b/c I boarded it out, lol.

Haven't played in a long time (over a year+). How's the gravehate been looking lately?

I probably have the deck configured to RiverGhast at the moment with Blue sideboard. but bought Prized Amaglam, cause #obvi.

Have seen the spy lists post better results typically, but am interested in the hoard moar approach.

Any suggestions or advice to take to a GP Trial? What should I expect to play against?

First off, props to mistercakes, played his list with the Nature’s Claim and Undiscovered Paradise in the board.

Yesterday, played at the local GPT, Stomping Grounds in Hatboro, Pa. Props to the shop, cause I was able to pick-up the Iona, Shield of Emeria and 2nd Ashen Ghoul right before the game started. Was going to play a Grizzle and ghast if the other cards weren’t available.

TL;DR – 3-0-2, finished 2nd after swiss, then top 8 split (6 split pot, 2 played for the GP byes), finished 5th overall (somehow got jumped for 4th…)

Rd 1 Matthew L. – Grixis Delver (with DRS)
G1 (He won the roll, played, mulled to 6)
Just got there with undying zombies. He had an active DRS that prolonged the game by 4 turns, eating an icky, two shadows, and a prized amalgam. He hit me twice with an unflipped delver, and I cycled two wraiths. Two Ickies, two Prized Amalgams, two Narcos, and one N Shadow made it go. A few were eaten in the process.
Finished 14-0
G2 (Me on play, no sb changes)
He fetched twice, but had a t2 cage, and that’s that.
Finished scoop-18
G3 (Me on draw, him mull to 5, sided in LEDs and Lootings, sided out combo pieces and a phanta)
He surgicaled an Imp, but I had thugs to dredge with still. Returned a shadow and ghast, had a bridge that netted me a zombie. (This is the only game Bridges netted me a dude.) After dumping hand with a Phanta was drawing, and got an LED that paired with an already flipped Looting. Had 5 damage on board, opponent at 6, so just went hog wild to amass a bunch more dudes for overkill on my next turn, he scooped. I finished at 18 from a cycled wraith.
Finished 18-scoop

Rd 2 Louis F. – D&T
G1 (He won the roll, played)
He landed an early Thalia, attacked me with it. I returned an icky which was promptly Stp’d. I attacked with a narco and Prized. There was some stalling and me attacking into him just to kill his blockers. I played a Salvage to get around Thalia, and was able to DR a Flayer, which killed a Phyrexian Revoker on Phanta. Dumped three Prized into yard, they returned and shot opponent for 9. Based on other critters in yard he scooped. Also won through an active Jitte.
Finished 19-scoop
G2 (Me on play, he mulled to ?, no sb changes)
T2 RIP, :(
Finished scoop-20
G3 (Him on play, he mulled to 5 I think)
He kept a loose hand with a RIP, but no white sources. My hand was LED, F Loot, Therapy, Amalgam, Troll, Imp, Thug. So I was dead to first turn cage, but he was on RIP. Unsure on turns, but I do my stuff (loving the LED addition) and blind name RIP (not difficult) and get it, maybe my second or third turn. See he has a mom, two waste and a mirran crusader as well. He had already played a P. revoker. Ultimately it ends in a swarm win, narco, shadows, amalgams.
Finished 18-scoop

Rd 3 Bernard L. – High Tide
G1 (I won the roll, thankfully, cause while shuffling I flipped a Salvage, so he played, fat fingers)
Cast a Probe that was countered, got there with slow nice beats, about 4 turns. Shadows, returning amalgams, add an icky, the beats are real.
Finished 18-scoop
G2 (Me on play, sided out Pharaohs and a Bridge for Traps)
He combo’ed out on turn 4. Funny thing, I had a trap in hand and used it, countered. Then on his critical turn he Time Spiral’ed twice, and each spin I drew another Trap, which was in turn countered each time.
Finished 18-19 (decked)
[At this point, I make the comment it’s ironic our decks are playing against each other, both just masturbatory games where one doesn’t really interact with the other to achieve victory]
G3 (Him on play)
I tried to punt this game hard. I drew and discarded a troll. Then after he said island go, I drew a Narco. Because I am bad at magic. Luckily I had two probes in hand, and was able to use them both and just filled the yard, saw he had an intuition, b-storm, preordain. On the following turn I was able to fire the therapies I’d flipped, he b-stormed in response. I wanted that Intuition, but figured he’d hide it, so blind called merchant scroll and hit it. He had a Force, Ponder, and the Intuition left in hand, fired a second therapy for the Intuition. On my 4th turn I had gotten him down to 5 after attacks (icky*2, shadow, prize), he had a TITI as a blocker. I went for broke and sac’ed dudes for a DR on Iona, which is overkill, but not cause combo. He b-stormed, and whiffed, probably could’ve FoW&pitch countered, but would be dead on board next turn with a still unflipped TITI. Whew, the coverage on that punt was excellent.
Finished 16-scoop

Rd 4 Chris R. - ?
ID
We played a game of Modern, we were both on reactionary snappy decks, and I got rolled. He was more Grixis, me Izzet. I did get to Squelch him searching for a land, and Remand’ed several Ancestral Vision. So while I lost, I kind of won.

Rd 5 Roy Smith – UR Delver
ID
We played it out for funsies, but didn’t take notes.
I know I won game 1 pretty easy, Vengeful Pharaoh did work.
He sided in Surgicals, I sided in LEDs and Lootings, cause it took me till the 5th and last round to realize these should always go in the deck for G2 because a smart player will always put us on the play. Took a little bit. The second card flipped was an Iona, that just gets covered and passed over. Lo and behold, the game progresses, I Therapy him, naming daze as he was tapped out, and seeing a clear path DR Iona, and that’s that. Pharaoh did work again, and he was kinda miffed at the lack of Bridges in the yard, not wanting to trade his creatures on blocks with no bridges. I did flip a bridge, and he was much more willing to trade, still got a zombie out of it.

Get to top 8 cut, in 2nd. We hem and haw while the judge is on a “bathroom break” and the non-bye folks are happy to split the cash. It’s a rough deal for 2nd place, but can’t have your cake and eat it too. This is my second top 8 in a tourney, and it feels pretty great.

Stayed in the shop for a second to play an EDH game (Grimgrin). Softened people up hardcore with a Shepard of Rot, but, that was killing me too. Lost to the guy with a Purphoros, God of the Forge.

Went to go see X-Men: Apocalypse afterward, and it was ok. Got $75 in store credit, finished off some pain lands, got two more Ashen Ghoul, and a Restless Dead for EDH.

A good day indeed.

I never felt the need for the claims or paradise. Would Riftstone Portal and Ray of Revelation make more sense? Tweaking for tweakings sake, I might go back to Contagion or Sickening Shoal. Revoker, Thalia, and DRS were the easiest things to hate on. Didn't miss the extra 2 Bridges like I thought I would, nor the 4th Therapy.

The deck is pretty awesome, definitely enjoy the added juice of Amalgam and Ghoul, and lack of gy hate since I'm guessing the banning of DTT.

Excellent work group for the added work on the deck.

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Originally Posted by ahg113

I never felt the need for the claims or paradise. Would Riftstone Portal and Ray of Revelation make more sense? Tweaking for tweakings sake, I might go back to Contagion or Sickening Shoal. Revoker, Thalia, and DRS were the easiest things to hate on. Didn't miss the extra 2 Bridges like I thought I would, nor the 4th Therapy.

The deck is pretty awesome, definitely enjoy the added juice of Amalgam and Ghoul, and lack of gy hate since I'm guessing the banning of DTT.

Excellent work group for the added work on the deck.

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undiscovered was in there for leyline of the void as a random out.

congrats on win. i think this deck is well positioned regardless of the build, although i am pretty partial to the LEDs out of the sb.

ive gone back and forth on the land version with ghoul and ghast or loading up on therapies and bridges.

still not sure what is better. depends on the amount of unfair combo.

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

undiscovered was in there for leyline of the void as a random out.

congrats on win. i think this deck is well positioned regardless of the build, although i am pretty partial to the LEDs out of the sb.

ive gone back and forth on the land version with ghoul and ghast or loading up on therapies and bridges.

still not sure what is better. depends on the amount of unfair combo.

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That makes more sense. I was thinking cage or RIP.

Honestly, I think the 3 Therapy, 2 Bridges makes a lot more sense than 4 & 4. The drop off of Salvage to S. Shell isn't that great, and it has the added benefit of getting around any tax effect. And I'm a fan of Ghoul, with the added beef of Amalgam, a haste beat stick that sticks around is pretty nice. When the D&T player tried to Port the Salvages, it was great to just float it and bring back a Ghoul with it. If there's a chance to cast Therapy from hand, it's just extra icing.

I think Horde Moar started as a joke, but I'm digging the extra bodies and grinding. The combo is there (props to Iona), but not necessary. I've ran out of steam with the team in times past, Ghoul and Amalgam really help turn the tide. 3 power that stays on the board, instead of self-sac. If the combo is better preferred, I reckon the Spy Version makes the most sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ahg113

That makes more sense. I was thinking cage or RIP.

Honestly, I think the 3 Therapy, 2 Bridges makes a lot more sense than 4 & 4. The drop off of Salvage to S. Shell isn't that great, and it has the added benefit of getting around any tax effect. And I'm a fan of Ghoul, with the added beef of Amalgam, a haste beat stick that sticks around is pretty nice. When the D&T player tried to Port the Salvages, it was great to just float it and bring back a Ghoul with it. If there's a chance to cast Therapy from hand, it's just extra icing.

I think Horde Moar started as a joke, but I'm digging the extra bodies and grinding. The combo is there (props to Iona), but not necessary. I've ran out of steam with the team in times past, Ghoul and Amalgam really help turn the tide. 3 power that stays on the board, instead of self-sac. If the combo is better preferred, I reckon the Spy Version makes the most sense.

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yea its possible to combat combo youll want to sb up to the 4th therapies at least. i know vieko has had a lot of success as well with the faerie macabres.

what was the 75 you ran? i cant seem to find it.

I ran the last list you posted.

4 Narcomoeba
4 Street Wraith
2 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Nether Shadow
2 Ashen Ghoul
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ichorid
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Bridge From Below
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Dread Return
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Faithless Looting
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Nature's Claim
2 Undiscovered Paradise

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Originally Posted by ahg113

I ran the last list you posted.

4 Narcomoeba
4 Street Wraith
2 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Nether Shadow
2 Ashen Ghoul
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ichorid
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Bridge From Below
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Dread Return
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Faithless Looting
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Nature's Claim
2 Undiscovered Paradise

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oh yea. that was a fun one! also when you side in 4 faithless 4 led, make sure you also bring in the 2 undiscovered. randomly great with bloodghast too.

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

oh yea. that was a fun one! also when you side in 4 faithless 4 led, make sure you also bring in the 2 undiscovered. randomly great with bloodghast too.

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I had been running a blue RiverGhast list, so having Salvages over Shambling Shell wasn't a stretch. Add in the Prized Amalgams, and it was -1 Therapy, -1 DR, -2 Bridges, and swap two Ghast for Ashen Ghouls. Other change... +2 Vengeful Pharaohs, +1 Iona, -3 River Kelpie. Easy peasy, and thanks to the Amalgams for the added beef. Super impressed with that card.

Horde mode at an actual paper tournament - I'm impressed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ahg113

I had been running a blue RiverGhast list, so having Salvages over Shambling Shell wasn't a stretch. Add in the Prized Amalgams, and it was -1 Therapy, -1 DR, -2 Bridges, and swap two Ghast for Ashen Ghouls. Other change... +2 Vengeful Pharaohs, +1 Iona, -3 River Kelpie. Easy peasy, and thanks to the Amalgams for the added beef. Super impressed with that card.

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i wonder if it's better for the sb to keep it with river kelpie.

maybe try keeping the kelpies over the 2 pharaoh and iona. dunno. but i haven't tested yet. 3 kelpie + 4 amalgam + 4 probe + 4 narcomoeba is starting to be a very reasonable amount of blue cards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

i wonder if it's better for the sb to keep it with river kelpie.

maybe try keeping the kelpies over the 2 pharaoh and iona. dunno. but i haven't tested yet. 3 kelpie + 4 amalgam + 4 probe + 4 narcomoeba is starting to be a very reasonable amount of blue cards.

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That's a loooooooot of triggers to keep track of. It's one of the biggest reasons why I stopped playing Kelpie - it's friggin' exhausting (and this was before Prized Amalgam existed).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

i wonder if it's better for the sb to keep it with river kelpie.

maybe try keeping the kelpies over the 2 pharaoh and iona. dunno. but i haven't tested yet. 3 kelpie + 4 amalgam + 4 probe + 4 narcomoeba is starting to be a very reasonable amount of blue cards.

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M'eh. Counterspells are awkward, I'd rather keep the LED + Looting SB, and splitting them leaves 4 FoWs, and either 3 MB Traps or D. Shoals. I'm not in love with the lands and N. Claims, but that makes more sense than a half idea of counterspells.

The pharaoh's do work. It seems a lot of decks win through combat damage. Pharaoh is seldom dead. And Iona can just end a game. Kelpie is good, but the triggers are problematic, because they have to be taken, but it's not "automatic" enough to land and get there 100%, unlike Spy or Grizz.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

i wonder if it's better for the sb to keep it with river kelpie.

maybe try keeping the kelpies over the 2 pharaoh and iona. dunno. but i haven't tested yet. 3 kelpie + 4 amalgam + 4 probe + 4 narcomoeba is starting to be a very reasonable amount of blue cards.

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I would run Whirpool Riders instead of Kelpies. They will get you a similar result, keep that blue count high and work great with Shoals (Scooze, RiP, Teeg, Thalia, etc).

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Originally Posted by vieko

I would run Whirpool Riders instead of Kelpies. They will get you a similar result, keep that blue count high and work great with Shoals (Scooze, RiP, Teeg, Thalia, etc).

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Ditto. Kelpies weren't as explosive, but offered a lot more long term bang, and a body that was useful. But for flipping, and on the counterspell plan, Whirlpool Riders make more sense, especially with Shoals.

Or, if you don't have Shoals in your SB - Whirlpool Drake. Triggers twice instead of just once. Also provides some extra value when facing Stifle.

I'm probably attending a monthly at the LGS for the first time in months this saturday and I just can't decide if I want to take Nic Fit or Manaless for a spin. Both have new toys that I want take for a fieldrun and shine in various MUs. If I'm taking Manaless, it'll probably be the Balustrade Spy with Prized Amalgams list. I like threatening with the combo finish and Spy is the most efficient way to do just that.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Or, if you don't have Shoals in your SB - Whirlpool Drake. Triggers twice instead of just once. Also provides some extra value when facing Stifle.

I'm probably attending a monthly at the LGS for the first time in months this saturday and I just can't decide if I want to take Nic Fit or Manaless for a spin. Both have new toys that I want take for a fieldrun and shine in various MUs. If I'm taking Manaless, it'll probably be the Balustrade Spy with Prized Amalgams list. I like threatening with the combo finish and Spy is the most efficient way to do just that.

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Happy Hunting either way. Manaless seems to be in a good spot. The GY hate seems to be at a serious low. If a player isn't on Miracles or D&T, I doubt they're packing anything worthwhile that can't be played around, or raced. I agree on the assessment of Spy for combo though. Horde Mode seems to be best at grinding, and Spy for combo.

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Originally Posted by ahg113

Happy Hunting either way. Manaless seems to be in a good spot. The GY hate seems to be at a serious low. If a player isn't on Miracles or D&T, I doubt they're packing anything worthwhile that can't be played around, or raced. I agree on the assessment of Spy for combo though. Horde Mode seems to be best at grinding, and Spy for combo.

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It isn't that other versions combo off slower or anything, but it just takes so much time to execute. Kelpie is just a giant clusterfuck of triggers (especially now we have Prized Amalgam) and I've been in a position where I had to DR 2 Whirlpool Drakes to complete the combo. Working through all those dredges and triggers took near forever (or at least long enough to rightfully annoy/bore my opponent to death) to do. Going DR Spy?, Spy trigger?, flip library, Progenitus replacement effect & Narcomoeba triggers? and iterate over the Prized Amalgam triggers is just so much quicker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

It isn't that other versions combo off slower or anything, but it just takes so much time to execute. Kelpie is just a giant clusterfuck of triggers (especially now we have Prized Amalgam) and I've been in a position where I had to DR 2 Whirlpool Drakes to complete the combo. Working through all those dredges and triggers took near forever (or at least long enough to rightfully annoy/bore my opponent to death) to do. Going DR Spy?, Spy trigger?, flip library, Progenitus replacement effect & Narcomoeba triggers? and iterate over the Prized Amalgam triggers is just so much quicker.

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I think we agree? It's not like Spy can't grind, and they're not different decks. But one obviously looks to combo win like whoa, and the other can combo win. Potato, Potato.

Yeah, we agree :smile:

I do disagree.
To my opinion spy is far less good than the other targets.

If you run counterspells, of course there is no questions that spy is bad (at least way worse than the blue ones, especially rider), but I think that spy is less good without too:
- Vial and thalia make spy lose the game right now, while the others make it an immediate win (fringe but exists).
- Same argument with surgical extraction, a card which sees a lot of play against us.
- SDT/Terminus. Also relevant in G1.
- Most of you agree with the aforementioned as they run a progenitus in the 75, aka one of the worst possible cards in the deck: you often dredge half your deck, losing 1 or 2 cards in grave with no upside is relevant. Not to speak about the wasted slot.
- the durdling factor is for the manaless player: G1 is usually ours, winning 1-0 is a thing. If an opponent does not concede, you an not to kill him if you know he does not have really relevant things to do. If G2 or 3 starts while there is only 5-10 min it is good, we win in few turns, not all the decks do that. Decks in the draw bracket are good too.

I really wonder what kind of advantage the spy can have?

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Originally Posted by dte

I do disagree.
To my opinion spy is far less good than the other targets.

If you run counterspells, of course there is no questions that spy is bad (at least way worse than the blue ones, especially rider), but I think that spy is less good without too:
- Vial and thalia make spy lose the game right now, while the others make it an immediate win (fringe but exists).
- Same argument with surgical extraction, a card which sees a lot of play against us.
- SDT/Terminus. Also relevant in G1.
- Most of you agree with the aforementioned as they run a progenitus in the 75, aka one of the worst possible cards in the deck: you often dredge half your deck, losing 1 or 2 cards in grave with no upside is relevant. Not to speak about the wasted slot.
- the durdling factor is for the manaless player: G1 is usually ours, winning 1-0 is a thing. If an opponent does not concede, you an not to kill him if you know he does not have really relevant things to do. If G2 or 3 starts while there is only 5-10 min it is good, we win in few turns, not all the decks do that. Decks in the draw bracket are good too.

I really wonder what kind of advantage the spy can have?

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Vial & Thalia (or any other way of messing with the rest of the combo) -> Solved by Progenitus. Flip your library, the following turn attack for up to 34 (12 from Amalgams, 12 from Ichorids, 4 from Nether Shadows, 4 from Narcomoebas, 2 from Spy). Seems legit. Discard Progenitus a couple of times more to continue the onslaught (and perhaps build some extra zombie tokens in the process). Progenitus just means you can spend all 4 of your DRs on just Balustrade Spy while still being able to close the game. Progenitus isn't a bad card, it's an extra win-con. Even SDT/Terminus is nothing more than a speedbump. They'll need Terminus for 2/3 turns straight before you're in any danger.

Concerning the durdling - I happen to like playing Magic. If I want to sit there not playing the game, I should just not show up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Vial & Thalia (or any other way of messing with the rest of the combo) -> Solved by Progenitus.

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Well, it's what I said: Spy has such strong drawbacks that it forces you to play progenitus, a terrible card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Progenitus isn't a bad card, it's an extra win-con.

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You'll have to explain what a win condition is. You can neither cast or reanimate it, neither use it as icho fodder. it's sole point at being in the deck is not to die because spy mills your whole library instead of a chosen number of cards, I cannot see how this fit in any definition of "win condition".

Proge is one of the worst possible cards, being a blank both in hand and in grave (even slightly worse than that).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Well, it's what I said: Spy has such strong drawbacks that it forces you to play progenitus, a terrible card.

You'll have to explain what a win condition is. You can neither cast or reanimate it, neither use it as icho fodder. it's sole point at being in the deck is not to die because spy mills your whole library instead of a chosen number of cards, I cannot see how this fit in any definition of "win condition".

Proge is one of the worst possible cards, being a blank both in hand and in grave (even slightly worse than that).

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It allows you to (hypothetically) run Spy as only combo piece. You win by just smashing face, which you can do b/c Progenitus allows you to live for a couple more turns.

You might find that a bad thing, for me it mostly just tickles my funny bone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

It allows you to (hypothetically) run Spy as only combo piece. You win by just smashing face, which you can do b/c Progenitus allows you to live for a couple more turns. You might find that a bad thing, for me it mostly just tickles my funny bone.

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I don't think you NEED to run Progenitus alongside Balustrade Spy but I like it for the following reasons:

• As Echelon points out, it gives you an extra turn (and a standing army) if things go belly up
• Counts towards blue for games where you bring in Forces
• Painter Servant is just funny
• I could say something about S&T but I haven't had this happen to me yet

I went 5-0 last night with the list below beating Shardless, Nahiri Miracles, Miracles (Lossett), Eldrazi and Miracles along the way:

MANALESS COMBO 2.1 GRIS

16 RECUR
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Nether Shadow
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid

15 DREDGE
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
3 Shambling Shell

10 UTILITY
4 Bridge from Below
4 Street Wraith
2 Faerie Macabre

8 PEEK / DISRUPT
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy

8 GRAVY
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Dread Return

4 TARGET
1 Griselbrand
1 Balustrade Spy
1 Whirlpool Rider
1 Flayer of the Hatebound

SIDEBOARD
4 Force of Will
2 Disrupting Shoal
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Progenitus
3 Nature's Claim
3 Elvish Spirit Guide

My favourite build so far, I've been collaborating with @mistercakes for the past little while on several iterations of Dredge and think we are making some SOLID progress :) Few notes on the list above:

• 2-3 Faeries mainboard give you a fighting chance vs. Reanimator, will mess your fellow dredge players... can be sided out without messing the rest of the deck.
• All targets in mainboard will win you the game, on the spot or the next turn: Rider is a controlled Spy, Gris is a lifelinking Rider, Flayer is awesome and now that Amalgam is a thing, he's even better.
• Force / Shoal are the best answer to hate IMO. You just need to play TONS of post-board games to get a feeling of how many and when to bring them in.
• Mulligans are OK... don't be afraid to give them a turn, they need all the help they can get.
• Claims + Guides are for Leylines... that's it. Guide enables Neather Shadow and can be used on the spot (Dryad needs a turn and messes with the Spy plan).

It's been a long time since I've posted. It looks like I will be able to attend GP Columbus and I can't think of anything else I'd rather play. Time to dig out manaless again.

Prized Amalgam is so good! I've been on the blue build for a while so it's just a perfect fit.

My list is very similar to vieko and mistercakes from the post above. Good to see great we're on the same page.

16 RECUR
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Nether Shadow
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid

15 DREDGE
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
3 Shambling Shell

10 UTILITY
4 Bridge from Below
4 Street Wraith
2 Force of Will

8 PEEK / DISRUPT
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy

8 GRAVY
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Dread Return

4 TARGET
3 Whirlpool Rider
1 Flayer of the Hatebound

SIDEBOARD
2 Force of Will
3 Disrupting Shoal
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Contagion/Sickening Shoal (unsure of what the split should be if any)
2 Vengeful Pharaoh

Main differences are:
-all the deck dump targets be Whirlpool riders for the increased number of Shoal in the SB
-2 maindeck FoW as a hedge against other fast combo decks. I do like the thought of main deck Faerie Macabre and will have to try those
-Dead to Leyline. No way of removing it. It doesn't see that much play. You cant have the answers to everything. Just hope to dodge it.
-Contagion and Pharaoh as ways of removing DRS and Containment.

My concerns are over-boarding for certain match ups. There are times when I want to bring in Shoals, FoW, and the creature removal but I know that can't be correct.

Any feedback is appreciated!

haven't tried maindeck Force of will. seems like a good idea. will test.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vieko

I went 5-0 last night with the list below beating Shardless, Nahiri Miracles, Miracles (Lossett), Eldrazi and Miracles along the way:

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You can't just go 5-0 and not post a report, mister!

So... I had a wonderful run today. Took my own Spy-list out for a spin. Went 3-0-2 into top 8 at my LGS's Monthly.

Round 1, vs. Eldrazi (2-0)
Game 1 goes quite long. Didn't hit any Bridges or DRs until the bottom 20 cards of my library. My recurring army held his at bay while a couple of Narcomoebas were pecking away at his life total until I could combo out. First I CT to take away his Warping Wail, then go for the DR. G2 he T2 Faerie Macabres away my dredger. Fortunately I have another, kickstart the engine and combo out 2 turns later. Somewhere before that he kills one of my Bridges by Dismembering (or whatever it was) his own Endless One. Cool!

Round 2, vs. UR Delver (2-1)
Game 1 I just overwhelm him with beats. He falls quickly. G2 he Surgicals my first discard, which happened to be my only dredger. I don't draw another and die shortly after. G3 he mulligans to 6 or 5 while I have a great hand with Troll, Street Wraith and Gitaxian Probe. It does get kinda close so I choose to strip his hand and leave blockers for his lone attacker rather than also cycle my Street Wraith and trying to combo out that turn. Seeing as all he has in hand are 2 FoWs and he was no way to kill me, I play it safe and the following turn beat him to death.

Round 3, vs. Eldrazi (2-1)
It was this guys first Legacy tournament. He'd never played against Manaless, so in both G1 and G3 he played CotV on X = 0. That's fine by me. G1 I overwhelm him with creatures since a Thorn of Amethyst had shut down the combo route. G2 he starts with a T1 Relic of Progenitus and I can only discard 1 card/turn. I die quickly. G3 he taps out on T3 and I go for the combo (and succeed). Afterwards it turns out he boarded out his Thorns b/c he thought I wouldn't cast any spells. We talked a bit about how the deck worked so he won't be surprised the next time he faces it (or something similar).

Rounds 4 & 5 - ID

I play some casual rounds with my R5 opponent. He's on Sneak & Show. We end up 3-2 in my favor (started out 0-2, then turned it around to 3-2). This MU is intense. Either he combos off, or you do. On the final game he manages to land a Grafdigger's Cage. Luckily I still have 2 zombie tokens and they get me there.

Top 8 - Quarter Finals. Mono U Dream Halls S&T (1-2)
This was interesting. G1 he goes for S&T. I drop BALUSTRADE SPY, flip my library, do my triggers, have Progenitus as library and I just see him looking like "What the fuck is happening..?". Unfortunately he can complete his combo, so I die to a lot of released ants. G2 I get there before he does. Combo finish FTW. G3 I have an incredibly quick opener (Troll, Street Wraith & 2 Probes) but he goes off on his T3, just before I can. So close!

I had a lot of fun.

One nice trick I came across during the day: In a couple of games I had several Prized Amalgams in my hand. When I did my dredge for the turn I hit a Narcomoeba and a Phantasmagorian. With the Narcomoeba trigger on the stack, I discarded the Prized Amalgams to Phantasmagorian so they'd see the Narcomoeba enter the battlefield. This speeded up quite a few games.

My thoughts in general: I loved my list. Didn't board in even a single card the entire day. Speed kills too, especially vs. Eldrazi. For reference - my list was just dredgers, combo and gas. No stuff like MD Faerie Macabres or anything (I'm not saying that they're a bad choice, I'm just saying that I like to keep my deck as streamlined as possible). The Prized Amalgams do give this list an incredible boost. It's quicker and hits a lot harder. They also make it a lot easier to go for the combo. You just have so many creatures to sacrifice to multiple CTs before you go for DR, it's nuts. And b/c of that the Progenitus in my main 60 is needed more than ever. I was so happy that thing was in my deck. It just allows you to go all out and beat the everloving shit out of whatever you face. I wouldn't play this deck without it.

Echelon, can you share your list?