Needs more RagavanQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Printable View
Needs more RagavanQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Personally I would want to fit Voidwalker and Surgical in there as well just for kicks - but yeah Delver with the new toys seems incredibly solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
The blue and red dudes are just... they're actively trying to kill Legacy at this point, right?
Keep banning all the new win cons they print (like archanist) this new dumb dragon etc, but keep printing new ones, while never actually going after any of the cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
The core always stays the same, but you have to buy a random new creature every 6 months.
That's how they'll sell things to this market! lol
Who's talking about UW? I'm thinking D&T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Honestly, they don't give a fuck about Legacy except every few years when they ban their latest mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
Yes, that's why they are porting legacy to modern with these sets.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
Let legacy and vintage die because the RL is dumb and reprint everything in modern.
UR Delver normally can't Delve 5 on turn 2. Like Tombstalker or Bedlam Reveler, it will come down later than its theoretical earliest and can be slowed down with grave hate like Relic of Progenitus. It's very strong but slow. It has no text on turns 1 & 2 and not necessarily what UR Delver wants to do a full turn on turn 3 (get Time Walked by 1 mana spells). This is a midgame finisher, probably a 3-of at most and not a 4-of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
It's strong vs black removal (Decay, Push, Bloodchief, Eliminate, KCommand) but trades 1-for-1 with REB and Plow (and gets ambushed by Ice-Fang). For a T3 curve topper it's more vulnerable than TNN, has no threat of generating free cards like Whale or Uro, and doesn't answer weak matchups like Borrower does. This is just big and dumb, like Goyf.
It's an overpowered card but Delver can only make room for so many creatures and prefers low cost ones like Ragavan.
Maybe
4 Delver
4 Ragavan
4 Sprite Dragon
2 Murktide Regent
Yeah, that makes sense. I just figured it rewarded you for having multiples so playing 4 was likely going to be tried. I agree that UR Delver as it stands right now can't delve 5 on turn 2, I think I got a little carried away there.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
However, I think there is a legitimate argument that green is not really necessary in Delver anymore with this high-level of a threat alongside Sprite Dragon. Green gives you Uro, which will be just too slow to keep pace with a 6/6 flyer and other aggressive threats like Delver and Sprite Dragon. Who knows what Ragavan will do to provide card advantage, making Uro look even worse in a high-efficiency Delver shell.
^This. At long last you can play Legacy where Brainstorm isn't legal, it's called Modern. Also you only have worse FoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoid
But . . . but . . . they PROMISED they really cared about Legacy as a format once eight years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
A specter is haunting Legacy -- the specter of the Reserved List
We should all, idk, unite, or something. Hell, we've got nothing to lose but our Chains of Mephistopheles.
I've wondered what sort of collective bargaining us older card collectors could muster if we wanted...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
Deckbox.org says my underwhelming collection accounts for 1/165,625th a portion of Hasbro's market cap.
Those that own power and other extra-silly cards would have even more.
Seems impossible, but at some point I felt the community could just buy them out with their own cards they've refused to reprint.
If you (collectively) could acquire the entire supply of a reserved list card you could make the argument that you own that card, both physically and functionally the copyright. If WOTC refuses to print any more copies (the RL) and the only person who can be damaged by the printing of additional copies of the card is yourself, you would argue that there's no one with valid standing to sue you when you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
Of course you'd have to win this argument against pappa Hasbro. And you'd have to acquire all copies of a card which isn't possible.
But in theory...
Wow. I picked a hell of a time to get back into Magic and Legacy. 0_o
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
The theory doesn't quite work. Although copyright is sometimes thought of in terms of ownership of a pattern-type (a chose in possession), it's actually more properly thought of as a right of dissemination (chose in action). Each individual Magic card is a token of a type, and the copyright holder has the exclusive right to disseminate more tokens. (They generally don't have the right to regulate what owners of individual tokens do with those tokens, however.) So even if Timmy owned all copies of cards on the Reserved List, he wouldn't thereby own the copyright. He would simply own every instance of those cards. Similarly, if Beyoncé sells a limited edition album of which there are only fifty copies, and you somehow manage to get your hands on all fifty copies, you wouldn't thereby own the copyright to the songs on the album and thus start collecting royalties every time they show up on the radio or in a film.
What we could do, as Legacy players, is actively accept any number of proxies of Reserved cards in tournaments and casual settings. I don't mean proxies that look like the originals--that would violate copyright--but rather, we would allow any player to proxy up any number of cards from the Reserved List by, e.g., writing a card's name onto a basic land. We could also collectively decide to maintain our own list of banned cards, as happened with EDH a few years ago. These are actually really good solutions, and I hope we're moving close to them.
Alas, it doesn't work that way and, frankly, it shouldn't (even though copyright is broken, this isn't the fix). Each individual card is a token of a type. Copyright gives its holder a monopoly over the reproduction and distribution of tokens of the type.
What makes it work, and what you missed, is that Beyonce is clear she will make and sell more copies of her songs. She can provide actual harm for me selling bootleg copies of her album. WOTC puts themselves in a bit of a fork here and only one thing can be true: Either the reserved list is real, and they cannot lay any claim to physical copies of any cards because the premise of the RL is that they have surrendered the right to make more copies. Or the Reserved list isn't real and they have retained the right to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen
The second thing you don't understand is that laws are not subject to singular interpretations. You don't believe it works that way, and fine, whatever. I only need to convince one judge, or the majority of a Jury that it does.
You aren't actually describing one of the ways in which copyright is transferred or extinguished. (It can be, but this doesn't describe one of those ways.) It's got nothing to do with showing there's no harm, which comes into questions of fair use, but not transfer of copyright.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
And even if it did, I'm afraid that your thought experiment doesn't actually demonstrate what it aims to demonstrate. In this scenario, if I understand you correctly, you own all cards on the RL and start printing new copies. Well, in that scenario, Hasbro demonstrates harm by showing that you're printing and selling their product and they're not collecting money on it. It doesn't matter that they've currently decided not to print that product themselves; they could, and if any more of it enters circulation, they're entitled to their cut (and, unfortunately, they also have the legal right to control its dissemination, so...).
All you would achieve, if you had every card on the RL and told Hasbro you were cool with reprints, is undermining the stated justification for the RL. But the RL is a policy Hasbro inherited from WOTC. It's not a legally-binding contract or anything of the sort. Hasbro (and WOTC before it) has surrendered none of their legal rights here.
Seriously though, it's fun to shoot the shit. But if you're serious, then you have to actually be serious. As you observed, copyright law is not subject to what we think it should be: it's an institutional social fact. And yes, it varies by jurisdiction, and it's unevenly applied and enforced, and even within jurisdictions it's often inconsistently applied (just have a look at the history of judgements with respect to musical appropriation if you're hankering for some outrage). And unfortunately, it doesn't work anything like what you describe. Because when you buy something, you aren't also buying a percentage of its copyright. And copyright ownership, transfer, and extinguishment has nothing to do with demonstrating harm.
Says who?
FoW, Daze, Brainstorm, FoN, these are not reserve list cards. But you can stick pretty much any shell around them and it will be reasonably competive.
Literally the only reserve list cards that are essential to playing legacy are the duals.
Yes there are a few narrow competitive decks that can be built without using any reserve list cards (death's shadow, burn) but its too narrow a list to retain players.
The duals are the cards that bar entry to legacy.
All we need are lands that are almost as good as the duals. Budget friendly alternatives to the duals that are nearly as good...
What if the pathway lands had the basic land types on their front face only so that those sides could be fetched for? Wouldn't they be far closer to the powerlevel of the duals, without violating the reserve list?
What if there were shock lands only legal in legacy and commander that only cost you 1 life to enter untapped rather than two, and also had the basic land types on them, wouldn't that be a far stronger budget friendly alternative to the current options?
This is what the playerbase should be advocating for and fighting for. Proposing alternative card designs that wouldnt violate the reserve list and requesting that wizards design them.
What if Wizards held another contest that let the players design a cycle of dual lands that do not violate the reserve list but are more powerful alternatives to the duals than any of the current land options? Wizards has held contests like that in the past? Why cant we all write Wizards asking them to hold another such contest?
Thats how legacy survives, by having a format that could support a pleathora of viable decks without requiring duals.
Intellectual property laws?Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Believe it or not, there are facts of the matter about the law, and experts who can tell you about them. You could always take a class. Or read a book on the subject.
Actually they don't. If you picked up one of those said books you'd know that all law is subjective and open to interpretation. That's why it's called an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen
So I'll repeat: says who?
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...05/362/3f4.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Why is D&T so much underappreciated? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
For some reason, I thought Rishidan Port is on the reserve list, akin to Gaea’s Cradle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
https://i.gyazo.com/676df2785503ef57...c9521fdabf.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
lmao even a spoiler thread turns into a RL discussion this site is an actual cesspool
It's amusing to watch someone LARP as a lawyer. I always wonder why people feel the need to take such a strong (and in this case condescending) opinion on a subject for which they clearly lack even a beginner-level understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
I don't see how that is a solution. When it comes to competitive play, its obviously not a solution because no matter what its a competitive disadvantage. When it comes to non-competitive play, proxies are already commonplace so this changes nothing as anyone would rather just proxy a dual than play with suboptimal cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
The funny thing is what you say is even more applicable in copyright law than on average. Nimmer on Copyright is basically The Bible and has been for decades to the point that whatever Nimmer (et filius) says is the law may as well be the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen
I know, right? It's beyond me, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Blood
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Blood
I've always thought that an easy out for WoTC was to just print better duals--e.g. ETB +1 life, or--wait for it!--treble lands. Given the sheer volume of new sets, and the crazy power creep I see now that I've returned to the game, I wouldn't be surprised if we aren't too far from something like that.
http://mythicspoiler.com/mh2/cards/g...rchomancer.jpg
Dunno if this has any applications. You can GSZ for it, though. Would make Loam/PF alot cheaper in the long run.
"But the law says..." I cry as a judge who's only completed highschool refuses to enforce it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Blood
So r ur postsQuote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
What are you even talking about lol just take the LQuote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
edit:
100% correctQuote:
I don't see how that is a solution. When it comes to competitive play, its obviously not a solution because no matter what its a competitive disadvantage. When it comes to non-competitive play, proxies are already commonplace so this changes nothing as anyone would rather just proxy a dual than play with suboptimal cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Players: Green/Red aggro hasn't been a viable deck in a long timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Barook
WOTC: Best I can do is 'storm'
I've been thinking about Ruby Storm, but would it be worth a green splash? I don't think they run Gobin Electromancer, either, although it would essentially do the same thing for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Birgi and ruby medallion play better with sol lands. Not sure if they want more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Lion's Eye Diamond is a reserved list card that is integral to a number of Legacy decks.
Also, I think that duals which read "ETB: Each opponent gains 2 life" would be great as a Commander product and also help people afford Legacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoshim
Quote:
I don't see how that is a solution. When it comes to competitive play, its obviously not a solution because no matter what its a competitive disadvantage. When it comes to non-competitive play, proxies are already commonplace so this changes nothing as anyone would rather just proxy a dual than play with suboptimal cards.