Vintage Rector based decks would've LOVED this card back in 2003... I don't know if this enchantment is enough for people to start dusting off their old Rectors though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
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Vintage Rector based decks would've LOVED this card back in 2003... I don't know if this enchantment is enough for people to start dusting off their old Rectors though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
Cast Lightning Bolt. Without passing priority, activate Vexing Shusher, targeting Lightning Bolt. Pass priority, opponent casts Counterspell targeting Lightning Bolt.Quote:
Vexing Shusher (may have a spelling mistake in the second word)
Creature- Goblin Shaman
Vexing Shusher Can't be countered by spells or abilites
: Target spell can't be countered by spells or abilities
2/2
Stack looks like this:
Counterspell
Vexing Shusher ability
Lightning Bolt
Counterspell resolves, countering Lightning Bolt. Vexing Shusher fizzles due to lack of target.
As printed, this card doesn't work.
Show and Tell? :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
Uh... better minds than mine need to worry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
Cast Lightning Bolt. Pass priority, opponent casts Counterspell targeting Lightning Bolt. In response, activate Vexing Shusher targeting Lightning Bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by etrigan
Stack looks like this:
Vexing Shusher ability
Counterspell
Lightning Bolt
Vexing Shusher resolves, countering Lightning Bolt. Counterspell resolves with no effect.
As printed, this card works. There is no accounting for poor play.
Heh, I was editing my post to take out the redundancy. What would have been left was:
You're right that it doesn't "work" for MULTIPLE counters, though. They might want to think about that...
lol, I'd love to play etrigan in tournies...
Trust me, you'd win.
Why couldn't you just use the ability multiple times?Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
The point is that you'd HAVE to use it multiple times, at instant speed, after each counterspell was announced. This might be what they intended, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihsan
Why is there a need to activate it multiple times when one time in response to a counter is enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihsan
The more I think about it, this card should be a godsend for burn. Not only that it fights Counterbalance, it also helps against Chalice.
Nah, it sucks. For seven mana I'd rather win the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
Also :u: :u: :u: is not that easy to get.
Because in response, they can cast a second counter. Granted, sucking out all your opponent's counters at R/G is sexy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Certainly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Thought Reflection looks like it might have a home somewhere in Vintage, but probably not Legacy. We do not have Lotus/Moxen/Mana Drain to help power out an early Reflection. Rector based decks died in 2003. Meh. It looks nifty though.
Vexing Shusher is clearly being printed as a potential answer to Counterbalance, in Extended where Vial isn't legal (also Krosan Grip sees far less play there).
It still dies to Bolt/Plow, but it seems like it should be good in Extended at the very least, and possibly playable here in Legacy also (I'm thinking if you run a BGw deck with Goyf, Bob, Hymn, Vindicate, Sinkhole, Swords, etc, you end up not needing the Krosan Grips in the board for Counterbalance and can run better hate for other decks, or in GoyfSligh, just wait to get to 5 mana, and then resolve this guy, and either PoP or Bolt + Fireblast for the win).
Worst case scenario, you have a bear (hence I'm not convinced it'll be playable in Legacy, you just can't play Meddling Mages, Silver Knights, or Goblin Legionaires anymore).
Hmmm... I'm not sold. His critter status makes him relatively easy for decks running CB to remove him. Thresh could bolt or StP him. He is reactive and ties up mana. Plus, he's a piss-poor beater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I think he'll see play, but I doubt that he'll be a "godsend."
Why is everyone talking about Burn ? This little Goblin might have a nice home in TES and Belcher (sideboards)...Chalice and CBalance are the biggest enemies of those decks as well, and they have game-winning spells to resolve instead of Bolts...this might be better than Swarm in those decks !
I can kind of see how you would do that, since people side out spot removal against combo. It's like how Fetchland Tendrils could side in bob 2nd game to get a better advantage. Anything that can fight through Chalice and Counterbalance is pretty damn good, especially if all it costed was just mana, and not extra cards. He even beats for 2, which is like 1 less storm copy for Tendrils every time he connects.
That's an interesting thought - maybe he would be good for Belcher. However, TES would probably rather invest :w: to prevent counters than :1::g/r::g/r:. Also, would Iggy variants be able to support him?
I think this guy will have a nice home in type 4!!!! Aside from that he may show up in reanimator...we will see...This also kills this discussion that this was a pic of a twisted /Dark Doran...
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...91/cardsss.jpg
Well, what's been discussed is...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
1) It dances around Chalice and Counterbalance... and even Dovescape
2) It protects Pyroblast for knocking out CB
3) It protects Orim's Chant
4) It protects Tutors
You can force a counter-war over Orim's Chant while bluffing your hand and go off the following turn...
Can TES/Belcher still go off with a (coloured) Sphere of Resistance in play? Because if they can't, Shusher isn't a real out to Counterbalance/Chalice.
*blink* I... don't understand. When's the last time you saw Sphere with CB/Chalice? Two out of three, I've seen yes... but never those in tandem. My train of logic... does not follow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
I'm not as familiar with Belcher...
TES... Burning Wishes for Shattering Spree.
Well, that comparison really isn't the same because you wouldn't be paying an extra R for every spell that you play, just for the key spells that MUST resolve before you go off (Orim's Chant). Sphere of Resistance makes every spell cost an additional mana, unconditional. Susher may add an extra R here and there, but I'd gladly pay an extra R or RR during the course of my turn if it ensures my combo will go off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
The problem is that Counterbalance and Chalice don't care if you resolved Orim's Chant or not. With CounterTop in play, Shusher alone only allows you to go off if you can afford the extra R for nearly every spell you play.
I suppose it does make your Pyroblast work, though. Shusher + Pyroblast or Wish->Silence is still a better anti-Counterbalance plan than the current 'somehow trick your opponent into letting you resolve Pyroblast or Wish->Silence'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgjorge
Chant can only be countered. This can be killed too. Also it costs :rg: :rg: plus :rg: for each one of your opponent counterspells as opposed to only :w:. Guess we will stick with chant
I was not stating it as anti-CB/Chalice... I was stating it as a way to protect your Orim's Chant if they DON'T have one in play so that you can go off relatively protected. Orim's Chant can still be FoW/CS'ed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
This is really obvious, but the difference between Shusher and all the previous anti-countermagic measures save Boseiju is that the others can themselves be countered -- Shusher can't. If you have a lot of red and/or green mana, you can basically force whatever spell of your choice to resolve, almost no matter what (exceptions off the top of my head: Misdirection effects, Time Stop, kill you in response, Sudden Shock/Death/Spoiling + Counterspell). I'm not sure where that would be useful yet, but it definitely has its niche.
4 new cards from Mana Rouge (roughly translated, probably not final wording):
Speared Wasp {u/b}{u/b}{u/b}
Creature - Faerie Soldier
Flying
3/2
Stone Jaws 5r
Sorcery U
~This~deals X damage divided among any number of target creatures or players where X is the number of mountains you controlled when you played ~this~.
Rosheen the Erratic 3{r/g}
Legendary Creature - Giant Shaman
tap: add 4 to your mana pool. Use this mana only to pay for costs containing x.
4/4
Elvish Troops 3g
Creature - Elf
~This~'s power and toughness are each equal to the number of green permanents you control.
~This~ can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponnents control.
*/*
Probably all too weak for legacy.
that elf will definitely have a spot in the few elves decks around
the others are all unimpressive
Almost certainly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex
Meh. Doesn't do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex
An almost strictly worse Corrupt, with the Pyrotechnics flavor instead of lifegain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex
Boy, how many Legends are they going to have in this set?! What the hell is he supposed to fit in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex
Should've been :g::g::g: or champion or something :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex
He's probably supposed to be the bizzarro-Brion Stoutarm. Same P/T, cmc.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Rosheen's flavour text may as well be "PS: Demonfire you."
Susher + Bound/Determined? I know it's RGU, but in TES, it shouldn't be that hard to get the required mana, and it 99% guarantees your combo will go through any counters.
Rosheen is Brion's sister...
See: Female
I think that the neatest thing about Shusher is that he's also a green way to fight Counterbalance, of which there is little. I'll pay 1GG for a Goyf if it guarantees him resolving through CB.
Still no idea if this makes him Legacy viable, but I figured I'd point out that he's green, too.
I guess theyre doing a cycle of sorceries that cost 5 and a colored mana and that care about how many basic lands of that type you have, theyre reprinting Corrupt and Flow of Ideas, and this is the red one. I bet the green and white ones will be fucking awful, as they usually are in cycles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex
Isn't Krosan Grip green? That is one of the best ways of dealing with Counterbalance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
I'd actually say that he's better as a red solution to Counterbalance, for which there are very few, if any.
That's very strange considering Tarmogoyf's original cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
I bet you a Foil Plains one of them will be lifegain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
I thought of that as soon as I posted, but Grip is hardly maindeckable. Not sure if this guy is either, but we'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred
I suppose it's far more important that it gives green an answer to traditional countermagic, essentially giving it a reusable 'Green Elemental Blast'. And I'm pretty sure there aren't any other ways get around counter spells in green.