[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

Oh yeah - sure point taken about the Pyroblasts.

But is 3 GY-Hate enough to stop lets say Dredge? We (or atleast I) do not have Snapcasters so this card is just a 1-4 trade... In any way...

Has Thought Scour already been discussed here? If yes let me know and ill delete this..

I was planing to squeze it in for the obvious reason of reaching GRENZWERT(This damn thingie wont let me type ********........ Grenzwert=trshold) faster. But this card has serveral other upsides:

Mill yourself when the Fateseal-abilitiy said "keep"
TS can swap itself into another card (maybe an answer) for just U
After a EoT DiviningTop TS should be pretty good aswell
In Response at the CB-Trigger
It can "shuffle" away useless stuff after BS
And a few more things I cant think of yet...


Theres another card that might be worth some consideration--> Magma Spray ( R / 2dmg to target creature - if dead --> exile)
This card could replace some Fire/Ice or additional Burn in a NicFit-meta (if there is any^^)

Greetings

I dont really see much value in thought scour to be honest. Its a cantrip that would likely compete with ponder, putting 1 more card into our grave than ponder does, but at instant speed so it wont grow goyf as large and doesnt provide any selection like our other cantrips. You did list some other uses that could be relevant but overall I dont think its powerful enough to warrant inclusion.

While were on the topic of cantrips though, I have one to throw out for discussion:
disrupt
While im a huge fan of daze, I think recently it has lost some of its value due to the extremely low curve of the current legacy decks and/or engines like gsz + arbor and veteran explorer often blanking our dazes after the first turn.
Not saying daze is worthless now but maybe we should consider disrupt somewhere in the 75 since while it doesnt give the same tempo boost, our curve is low enough that we can afford another cantrip for U vs. returning an island and at worst it is a cantrip while at best it can be a blow out resulting in card advantage. The cantrip effect really changes the nature of the play as well since throwing a daze to force your opponent to spend more mana to stop multiple spells/slow their tempo may not be worth it, but doing the same with a cantripping counterspell could be worth it.

Another card im considering is smash to smithereens vs ancient grudge, possibly as a 2/1 smash/grudge. I like the idea of increasing our burn density when siding this in but im still new to the deck so id like to hear some reasons for or against its inclusion.

"2009 called, they wanted their super secret tech back."
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=36256

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Originally Posted by useL

Pyroblast must always be strictly better if you play with Nimble Mongoose to reach threshhold. It's a metacall but I always run with double Ancient Grudge and 4 grave hate seems too much to me so I would cut the Tormod's Crypt for that 2nd Ancient Grudge.

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Pyroblast is better also because of Phantasmal Image, which it can target even if it isn't blue.

4 grave hate isn't too much, if some of it is in the form of Surgical Extraction. You probably even can't beat Dredge with that.

I won a 75 Player Legacy Event with the following Sideboard:

2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
3 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Rough/Tumble
2 Mind Harness
2 Submerge
1 Tormods Crypt

@Submerge vs. Mind Harness
There are so many situations where Submerge is better than Mind Harness and a lot Situations where Mind Harness is the way to go. Thats the reason why I´m playing a 2/2 Split.

I think Surgical Extraction is > Grafdiggers Cage. Against Dredge you only die because of Bridge from Below and the Extraction is good in a few MU like High Tide or other Combo and Loam Decks.

Red Elemental Blast has some advantages.
As seldom as that is, it can not be redirected to another non-blue perm/spell via Divert/Misdirection etc.
You can also play REB over Pyroblast against Cabal Therapy/Surgical Extraction, because the most opponents will name/target Pyroblast because of the estimation that you play more copies of it because it is in general superior.
I for myself always play a split of 2 Pyro/1 REB which was decent since I grabbed up Canadian. It is damn rare that those splits do matter, but I feel more comfortable doing so.

@MC_EM86:
I think this is pretty near to the optimum right now. I am not a huge fan of Surgical Extraction though.

MC_EM86, which mainboard were you playing? 4 Mungos? Snapcasters?
Have you never been missing some Grudge/Grips?

Greetings

So here is my decklist for the GP this weekend. I'm stumbling with this one "flex spot" and honestly just can't make a freaking decision.

Lands (19)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Island

Creatures (14)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Nimble Mongoose
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Phantasmal Image (Flex Spot)

Spells (27)
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
2 Spell Snare
2 Chain Lightning
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard (15)
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Submerge
2 Mind Harness
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge

So the list is pretty much stock except the Image spot and maybe a few sideboard choices. I been doing tons of testing on MTGO with the Image in the flex spot or the 3rd snare or a 4th Daze or a 3rd Snappy. I really think right now snappy is the worst card in the deck and I will not run a 3rd. With the loss of stifle, I think putting a 4th in makes the tempo idea worse, although I really like going T1 Delver with daze back up as well. I always felt comfortable with the 3rd snare, it seems pretty good right now and without the 3rd snappy I probably want to up the snare count in the deck. So what about the image? I'm anticipating the GP meta while diverse to be full of mostly mirrors, stoneblade, maverick and prolly dredge and storm variants. Because I hate playing this deck against maverick, I really like the image to copy my flipped delver and make the race even faster. We need delver to win this match, so having access to a 5th seems vital not to mention it has merits vs. Thrun and other obvious legendary targets. I've never been unhappy to draw it, plus it pitches to force if need be. So this is my problem so to speak. Do I just play the typical stock list and go with the 3rd snare or Daze, or do I just be crazy and play the md image?

I don't want to fit the image in the board as I had previously tried because I think the board is already tight. I prefer crypt over surgical and with only running 2 snappys, surgical just gets worse. I love the cb package and so do other ppl, so 1 grip is probably necessary for a long tourney. Grudge is an obvious inclusion and to further help my terrible maverick matchup, you have the mostly popular 2/2 split.

So fellow RUG players.......flame on!

You asked for it, so here you go:
In that particular list, I would consider playing a misor Dismember.
It's better against Maverick, kills opposing Goyfs (which is relevant when you run just 2 Snares) and can own randomness like MUD, plus having the most random chance to flip to CB, which is hopefully not what this deck wants anyway, but hey.

Further on, I have to admit that I am not a huge fan of these RUG 1.5 versions.
FoW is not that strong in these builds (lesser pitches), Stifle is an All-Star right now (especially against equipments and Nic Fit) and Fire/Ice and Dismember are huge in the current meta too, so I have a hard time seeing the advantages of these lists.
I tested a pretty similar list to some extend and know that strong draws and lines are possible with it, but I felt extremely inferior in comparison to straight lists with Stifle every time I played it.
The only thing that might be convincing is the CB package, which can randomly own the heck outta some decks but thats really it. I don't even see a real need for that right now, but this is none of my business. Couldn't bite my tongue though.
Good luck at the GP and try out that Dismember :tongue:.

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Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher

You asked for it, so here you go:
In that particular list, I would consider playing a misor Dismember.
It's better against Maverick, kills opposing Goyfs (which is relevant when you run just 2 Snares) and can own randomness like MUD, plus having the most random chance to flip to CB, which is hopefully not what this deck wants anyway, but hey.

Further on, I have to admit that I am not a huge fan of these RUG 1.5 versions.
FoW is not that strong in these builds (lesser pitches), Stifle is an All-Star right now (especially against equipments and Nic Fit) and Fire/Ice and Dismember are huge in the current meta too, so I have a hard time seeing the advantages of these lists.
I tested a pretty similar list to some extend and know that strong draws and lines are possible with it, but I felt extremely inferior in comparison to straight lists with Stifle every time I played it.
The only thing that might be convincing is the CB package, which can randomly own the heck outta some decks but thats really it. I don't even see a real need for that right now, but this is none of my business. Couldn't bite my tongue though.
Good luck at the GP and try out that Dismember :tongue:.

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Fair enough, I forgot to put that I had tested Dismember much like everyone else. I wonder if anyone has given thought to flusterstorm maindeck or is it just a worse pierce?

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Originally Posted by ImpinAintEasy

Fair enough, I forgot to put that I had tested Dismember much like everyone else. I wonder if anyone has given thought to flusterstorm maindeck or is it just a worse pierce?

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Worse Pierce, although it would be better against the degenerate decks.

I'm just finishing a small write up on my thoughts on RUG Delver, should go up tonight or tomorrow.

Btw, find me in Indy; we should grab a beer :smile:

what are you realistically copying with image that is worth two mana?( a flipped delver? a worse goyf? ) also the single dismember is very good. helps in your G/x matchups and a few other places (sometimes kills knight, 85-90% of the time kills goyf, kills a flipped delver)

I would play the 4th goose or the 3rd snapcaster. the list I was playing is similar to yours(no CB top package) but I'm making some changes from just playing the deck to include stifle i think for the mirror, where fetch lands and wastelands are particularly frequent

@Phillip802

My Maindeck configuration loooks like this:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Nimble mongoose
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Fire/Ice
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island

I`m playing this configuration for months ago and I´m very satisfied with it.

I play the same list, just that I run 3 F/I instead of the split of Dismembers.
This comes down to personal Playstyle. I wasnt a huge fan of Dismember, but I do understand what the card does to the deck.
Besides these 3 flexslots that should be filled with reach/removal I see those 57 as set in stone right now.

Why are you playing the fourth Tarmogoyf instead of the fourth Mongoose? I'm still a bit unsure which creature I should cut, besides that I agree with you that this list is the optimum atm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morbid-

Worse Pierce, although it would be better against the degenerate decks.

I'm just finishing a small write up on my thoughts on RUG Delver, should go up tonight or tomorrow.

Btw, find me in Indy; we should grab a beer :smile:

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Will do and I look forward to the write up. Good Luck and I'll see you there!

Mongoose is fine and stuff (and I wouldn't cut it) but Tarmogoyf is a thousand times better against decks where Mongoose is pretty mediocre.
The full playset of Goyfs and Delvers apply a lot of pressure when you need it, while Goose just stares in front of a lot of things while you want to push through early damage, which will end up costing you games.
The argument of Goyf beeing a worse card because it can be targetted by removal, costs more mana (which is the only relevant aspect at all IMO) or is hit by Spell Snare are somewhat nonsense to me and are negated by the sheer power of the card in Threshold.
All sort of decks need to handle both Delver and Goyf and playing the full 4 of each leaves them up with not beeing able to stop them completely.
Stoneblade for example (which should be the deck that has the most Spotremoval due to StP/Snapcaster) is torn apart by so many cards in this deck that you are able to save Snares for Snapcasters and FoW to Spotremoval to ensure the victory.
Goyf is key in so many situations/MU's that I for myself can't see cutting any of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MC_EM86

@Phillip802

My Maindeck configuration loooks like this:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Nimble mongoose
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Fire/Ice
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island

I`m playing this configuration for months ago and I´m very satisfied with it.

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I am playing the exact same list and love it because it is really "streamlined" and honest about the curve. I play 2 more fetches instead of lands to support mongoose better. In fact I like mongoose so much that I am thinking about changin to 3 goyf and 4 mongoose. Playing it turn 2 with mana open feels very good.

I do play 4 Delver/Goyf/Mongoose

I dont like playing vs UWr Stoneblade without having the ability to play a full playset of Mongoose. I play 1 Spell Snare few and in the 3 flex. slots I got 2 Fire//Ice and 1 Chain lighting while playing 6 Duals 8 Fetch. I might change to Chain Lightning to a Spell Snare however..

Greetings

EDIT: As our Dredge-MU is pretty bad - why dont we just play 4 Leyline of the Void? With all our Cantrips it shouldnt be much of a problem to find further lands right?

more or less i play a classic (the classic one with delver..) canadian ***** list and..

..recently i found myself in situation where i didn't want to play surgical extraction against a loaming player postboard, although i had one in hand.. this made me thinking.

rough thoughts:
- the obvious: the loaming player wastes so much time/tempo/mana - if he wants to loam, so be it..(meaning every deck with loam, except 43lands.dec)
- i got stifle (addressed to the last ten pages of this thread: dont ever cut this card from cantresh - EVER)
- with playing delver first turn it feels comfortable only having 1 land in play all game against a constantly loaming player
- from time to time it accurs that you will have just more lands than you intend to have - >feel free to loam&waste<
- if you are getting totally blown of by a single wasteland (happens), just smile. you dont have do deal with their loam (even if you still could cast extraction..).
- there are more minor reasons..

the conclusion: i dont want to board extraction against loam. am i crazy?

besides:
against which decks you really want to board grudge and why?
just to mention two:
- decks with chalice #reason: obvious
- affinity #reason: targets 83% of their deck

stay tuned