Canonist not an option. dies to anything, /2 thoughtness creature AND dies to generic artifact removal...
as fragile as a champagne glass
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Canonist not an option. dies to anything, /2 thoughtness creature AND dies to generic artifact removal...
as fragile as a champagne glass
Hey guys I haven't kept up to date on miracles lately. I played UW miracles with EtA and flash creatures, but it seems lately that it has fallen out of favor and UWr miracles has been more competitive. I'm planning to go to ScgBa being hour an hour away and wondered what everyone's thoughts about the different UWr miracle decks.
From what I gather the EtA/flash creatures plays a more beat down version while the RiP/Helm goes for a more control play to set up the kill. I see that it's harder to set up a the CB/top soft lock with Abrupt decays being more prevalent now, and it seems this hits the RiP combo version of the deck too. So here's my take and some questions I could use some answers with. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
1) I would guess creature version is better with the current meta (G/B type decks) because we're not relying on RiP to stay on board with the ABs main deck.
2) A quick scan on metamox shows that pernicious deed hasn't been used as much, but I wonder if you guys still think this is relevant? With our games more likely to go long, does it worry you when it's possible for them to have enough mana to cast and activate deed right after a huge EtA?
3) Is it ok to run 2 tiagos with 2 RiP mb? It seems the enchantment is a huge boon against most of the meta right now, or should I just keep it in the sb?
4) I saw someone mention Mirran crusader for the BUG matchups which I did like in deadguy. Without equipment though you think is he still strong enough to be a sb option?
IMO
1) my version plays 3 Vendilion 1 Venser 2 Karakas AND 2 RiP MD.
it's still old legendary-karakas based miracle
RiP in modern meta is just too good. I find it useful in 80% of the first game and 100% of the second game (where I board in the third)
2) BG is a bad matchup for Deed and Decay. We play Blood Moon and RiP to fix it. post board, imo, it's 50-50
3) if tiago is Snapmage, definitly not. I'm cutting it for RiP package (-3 Snapmage +2 RiP +1 Helm)
4) imo, no. RiP + Misdirection should fill the gap
the point is exactly, how do we start taking advantage of all the Decays around?
Divert
Deflection
Misdirection
Swerve
especially the last one..
1-2 Misdirection MD, 1-2 Swerve SB
after some test, the only add that makes a sense is Pyroclasm
Bonfire and Earthquake with less than 3 mana are rather useless and with 1 more mana we have Wrath of God, which is on colors too...
maybe -1 Terminus -1 StP +2 Bonfire (MD), but that's something to be tested throughtly
and SB 2-3 Pyroclasm.
current list:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
2 Rest in Peace
3 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Counterspell
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Jace, TMS
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser
with 3 Enlightened Tutor, I HAVE to find room for 1 Blood Moon MD.
SB
1 Rest in Peace
2 Swerve
2 Pyroblast
1 REB
3 Pyroclasm (?)
2 Energy Field
2 Blood Moon
1. Even with creature version, Joe still runs 1 MD RiP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djz05
2. Deed is only relevant in Nic-fit. I don't see the problem, you can play EtA at opponent's End of Turn, then just attack opponent for the win on your turn. Even if your opponent play Deed after, damage has already been done.
3. No, you either run 2 Snapcaster Mages + 1 RiP, or 0 Snapcaster mages + 3 RiP.
4. Depends on the version you are running. If you MD multiple RiPs, then Divert/Misdirection would work better, since they align with your goal of abusing RiP by protecting it. If you focus on spells and Angels, then there is no need, the focus should be prolonging your game until you are safe enough to do a big EtA, and Crusader is a decent choice. Crusader also buy you some turns against Geist and Death and Taxes, until you can promptly draw your removals.
I used to run 1 SB Pyroclasm when Goblins started getting big, in order to supplement the Terminus/sweeper count. I don't think beyond 5-6 sweepers is necessary, and even the 6th is on shaky ground. The 2 Volcanics support it just fine, as you fetch it out when you need to cast Pyroclasm.
Thanks. That helped clear up some things. I didnt notice the misdirects/diverts too, sounds like a good call.
Hi,
I am a new Hungarian Legacy player. I started to play this format in January. Before that I played 6 month of EDH (1v1 commander) and 1,5 years of Standard. I prefere to play control.
Until now I played Spiral Tide which is a relative cheap combo deck with control back up.
I would like to try the UW Miracle archetype, because I feel that it is a tier 1 deck in this format.
In Budapest there is one Legacy FNM in a month, usually there are about 20 participants.
The relevant decks used to be the following ones: Junk Stoneblade, Death and Taxes, Esper Stoneblade, Berserk Infect, RUG Delver, Elves, Goblin, Dragon Stompy, Sneak and Tell. There are some less sucsessfull ones: Shardless BUG, BG Rock, UWBG Dreadstill, UR Delver, Pox, Burn, Forgemaster, Spiral Tide.
Most of the players are new, but there are 10-12 person who playing this format over 5, even 10 years. Usually they are in the top8 - independent of their deck choice.
I plan to play the following list:
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spellsnare
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
1 Detention Sphere
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
22 Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Mystic Gate
1 Karakas
Sideboard
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Vendilion Clique
What do you think about it?
How many Legacy FNMs do you have in your hometown?
I would strongly discourage you from playing the deck because as a new player you will just make your and your opponents life miserable and get slow play warnings left and right.Quote:
Originally Posted by UB Control
I have been playing magic for many years, legacy for about a year, and I am still too slow for this deck.
It needs so many turns to win that if you aren't an extremely experienced speed monster you will never be able to finish 3 games in 50 minutes.
I love this deck but I gave up playing it frustratedly because the beauty of it is all the decisions you can make but you never have time to think for anything.
Yeah, I've had a pyroclasm in my board for a while. It plays well with RIP and Humility and can kill Teeg. Also good against Goblins, Elves, Jund, Geist, SFM, Bob, Deathrite...Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
It's probably worth noting that I play a basic mountain over the second volcanic.
I've been playing 2 Pyroclasms at GP Strasbourg aswell, featuring 2 Volcanics MB. They were supergreat. I just had to decide whether I want them or other Red cards from my Sideboard in some MUs, cause I didn't feel comfortable with more than 4 red spells and only 2 Volcanics. Mostly I was 3/2.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Greetings
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirdie
I totally disagree with this statement. There is no relation between a deck that requires a lot of decisions and takes time to win, and slow play. I am not a fast player myself, and have had many draws over the years. But I have only received one slow play warning. It was a long time ago, and I was playing goblins. Watching me now compared to when I started playing this deck last year is not close. You get faster as your pattern recognition builds up. He is talking about an FNM anyway, I'm not sure they give warnings.
UB control, your list is fine. It will probably take you a couple events before you get used to all the cards. Then you can start making changes to parts that you don't like.
Why would you run Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger’s Cage when you can just have Rest in Peace? If you intend to graveyard hate, do it thoroughly, abandon Snapcaster Mages plan if graveyard in a particular match-up is such a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by UB Control
Also, if you are new to Legacy Miracle, I expect you to lose... for the first month. Yes, the learning curve is steep, but you have to have patience.
Agreed. You'll pick it up faster than you think, and there's no way to get faster other than practice. While I get frustrated at people playing the deck slowly, I'm pretty impatient in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by oarsman
There should not be any warnings at FNM, FNM is regular REL, not competitive.
I'll agree with this also. While the amount of unintentional draws you get will likely frustrate you and your opponents, there really isn't any way to get faster other than playing more. I still get a draw now and again, but I've been doing much better since I made a goal of making myself (and occasionally my opponents) manage our time better. It isn't a beginner friendly deck for those just getting into Legacy, but if you are a diehard control player, you won't regret it in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by oarsman
It should be mandatory that every deck that plays snapcaster and has the mana to use it, should always have a single riptide laboratory.
Utility land that requires a creature to be on board, not to be removal'ed in response to activation and costs 3 per iteraction + 2 for snap + X for fb'ed spell <<< Academy RuinsQuote:
Originally Posted by thefreakaccident
I am back from a local tournament with close to 30 players, a National-Championship-Qualifier, organized by me. As I Top8ed 4 of the 5 previous ones I promised myself to play something fun. I was thinking about something like BUG Counterbalance or UW Landstill but a friend brought up the idea of putting Show and Tell + Griselbrand into Miracle Control. Sounds stupid, sounds fun. I'll buy it. That's the list I registred:
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
1 Plains
2 Karakas
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
4 Show and Tell
4 Griselbrand
2 Intuition
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
//Sideboard
4 Flusterstorm
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Rest in Peace
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Entreat the Angles
Ok, here are the short recaps of the Swiss-MUs:
1) Aluren
I: I have a T3 Griselbrand, he gets Aluren. I find enough Force of Wills.
II: I lock him out quickly with Counterbalance, he does not find Abrupt Decay, Griselbrand is doing the beatdown cause he has Notion Thief.
1-0
2) ANT
I: I get CB-lock by T2 and he concedes after I land a Clique.
II: Counterbalance lock again + a T3 Griselbrand, which gets Karakased. He tries to combo, meets my force of will and before he can recover my Cliques/Snappys/Griselbrands kill him through his Karakas.
I promised him to concede, so I do - though gamewise this is a victory.
1-1
3) Death and Taxes
I: He has fast hatebears and Karakas for my Griselbrand.
II: He has fast hatebears and Karakas for my Griselbrand.
1-2
4) NicFit
I: I force his first 2 Discardspells and resolve a Griselbrand T3. Though he has Thrun, Grave Titan and some Zombies. But after some hick-kack Griselbrand takes over and just wins, but only after getting bounced and re-showed twice.
II: T6 Snapcaster Mage, target Show, Griselbrand.
2-2
5) ANT
I: Fast Counterbalance-lock.
II: I misplay horribly, not wanna go into detail, wargh.
III: Some rules hickhack but we decide I win.
3-2 / 4-1 gamewise
This deck is a lot of fun and sure has some potential. Funwise I'd take it over any other deck at the moment. Just this feeling...locking an opponent out and bringing in Griselbrand..unbelieaveable :D
If you are interested in some fresh take on Miracles, try it out :D
Greetings
Thank you for your comments!
I enjoy to play difficult decks because that make me improve faster. So I will try to play this deck.
I made some changes in the sideboard:
Out:
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Celestrial Purge
In:
1 Pyroblast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
I organize a so called Legacy Picnic. We go out to an open air place, take some food and drinks with us, and play Legacy all day long. It is not DCI sanctioned event. It is playtesting and casual play for fun and development. I will see how my deck performs!
Einherjer - I've sold my cardboards & retired to a lurker, but your hilarious list just made me wanna high five you :laugh:
http://tech.mn/files/2012/06/High-Five.png