A question: is there a facebook chat where we can talk about Jund?
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A question: is there a facebook chat where we can talk about Jund?
Are you QBTurtle on MTGO?Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
Lmao no, I wish could be that good. I've spoken and played him/her a bunch on MTGO though, they're the person who convinced me to cut fires and try Grim Flayer out. My sideboard is roughly the same, I don't run Chandra though.Quote:
Originally Posted by aromaticity
2 Duress
2 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
2 Engineered Plague
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
What were some of their reasons? I've never really been disappointed with Confidant so I was surprised by the switch there. I can go either way on cutting PFire but in general on here and MTGSalvation it seems that a lot of players prefer groveless.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
They felt that confidant was too fragile with the amount of delver running around and they wanted something that was also relevant later in the game. I was pretty skeptical of the delirium but you can usually get to delirium in almost every game, it's not hard to fill your yard in most matchups with land, instant, sorcery and creature. This deck plays a crapton of removal already so I don't think that fires are necessary. I think the biggest loss of not having fires is that you can no longer pressure walkers constantly even when you are drawing poorly, and you gotta take into account that you no longer have the fire engine when playing against decks that spit out creatures like elves. The completely fetchable manabase is super nice though. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by aromaticity
I don't think that there is any wrong or right way to build this deck, just build it how you like to play. I don't remember who it was but someone in this thread said earlier that the core of the deck is Goyf, DRS and Decay without everything else being debatable, I think that summarizes this deck up really well.
Hi mates, yesterday I made TOP8/46 in MLL(Milan Legacy League) with Jund.
This is my decklist:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
SIDEBOARD
2 Duress
2 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
T1: PATRIOT 1-1 (0-0-1)
GAME 1: A very long game. Finally he was at 2 life points with True-Name Nemesis and a Umezawa's Jitte. Into my battlefield: Liliana at 2, Tarmogoyf 7/8, Deathrite Shaman. He had lost mathematically in short. Instead he managed to draw a Swords to Plowshares which he moved the balance needle in his favour: StP to Goyf, Combat on Lily with TNN and 2 counters to Deathrite Shaman. I've lost the match in this mode.
GAME 2: Land-Deathrite, Land-Liliana, Land-Elf + Goyf and then, Elf + PFire...GG.
GAME 3: Another very long game. I hadn't draw any KCommand or Lilly in order to destroy his Batterskull, and then the bell rang. 1-1
T2: NEW MIRACLE 2-0 (1-0-1)
GAME 1: Deathrite-Tourach-Tourach + Liliana. GG
GAME 2: The choice to split 2 Elf MD and 2 SB was very strong. The pressure it gave me was what I needed. 2 Elf + some discard spells and I brought home the match.
T3: DEATHBLADE 1-2 (1-1-1)
GAME 1: A grindy match. But 2 Goyf 7/8 resolved the match.
GAME 2: He drew all spells he needed. He managed to counter 2 Tourach and a Toxic Deluge with 2 Nemesis.
GAME 3: He made Shaman, Stoneforge, TNN, TNN, Jace. I drew only lands and I mulligan to 5.
T4: SNEAK&SHOW 2-1 (2-1-1)
GAME 1: he won easily despite of a Tourach.
GAME 2: Duress + SExtraction on Sneak. Another Seize on STell and Goyf made me the victory.
GAME 3: Duress-Counter, Tourach-Counter, Show&tell --> show: Griselbrand and Chains of Mephistopheles. In my turn Liliana of the Veil and I won the game.
T5: UB CONTROL 2-1 (3-1-1)
GAME 1: Another very long game. He played a strange deck with Crucible of Worlds-EE-Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold. I conceded after 10 minutes -.-.
GAME 2: Seize + Tourach + Bob + Elf + Elf. G3.
GAME 3: A very very very long game. I managed to do the Ultimate of Liliana, but he drew Crucible. He drew all removal he nedeed, but in the second additional turn 2 Elf brought home the match (Punishing Fire and Goyf cascade ability).
T6: ESPER MIRACLE 2-1 (4-1-1)
GAME 1: I didn't draw any discard spell and, on the other hand, he drew all Predict he needed. I conceded after his 3th predict, even if he hadn't the finisher.
GAME 2: Shaman, Tourach, Elf + Elf. G3.
GAME 3: Seize + Duress + Tourach + Liliana / Chains. GG.
TOP8: GRIXIS CONTROL 0-2
GAME 1: I drew all Decays. A Gurmag Angler the finisher.
GAME 2: I had only dual + Grove in my hand. I played Seize and Goyf. He drew at 3th turn Blood Moon and I've lost the match.
So, I'm very happy about my second positive result with this decklist.
With Jund I made only 2 tournments...I can't wish for better.
With this top8, I finished 4th in the final League Ranking (Before Sensei's ban I played Miracles, and then Jund).
Now, I'll test Liliana the Last Hope. I think it makes do a lot of things now. What do u think about LtLH?
Maybe I'll change some cards in my sideboard. About MD, I think that it is very powerful.
I wouldn't want Liliana the Last Hope in my maindeck unless I was playing in a small and "known" meta. She's basically a dead card in too many Legacy matchups. I can see her being useful in the SB though, so I'm planning on picking up a copy.
Played Pun Jund for the first time in about 6 months at a few weeklies recently, crushed at some and got crushed at others. With Counter-Top gone from the format I've cut the 4th Decay for a Pulse/K-Command. I'm also determined to play 2 Libraries at this point.
People who have cut Confidant, have you tried any number of Tombstalkers/Anglers/Mandrills? Bob is what's keeping me from playing a delve creature or 2.
The only thing I'd say is that if you add Delve, don't also add Lavaman a they will probably clash.
Not sure the deck really needs Anglers since Goyf is probably going to be the biggest creature on the field usually. Tombstalker/Mandrills sounds interesting, I have been in positions where i'm stonewalled by a TNN or tokens and need to get damage through. Delve plays kind of awkwardly with Flayer considering i'm not playing any CA spells main. Maybe in the sideboard? Will try at some point in the future, I kind of only play this deck when I get tired of getting color screwed from playing 4c Loam.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovercraft
Alright so I got some reps in with the deck recently as a re-entry point back into the format. Playing the QBTurtle list except +1 Swamp -1 Foothills MB and +1 Deluge +1 Brutality, -1 Push -1 Chandra SB.
I played a marathon three match series against Merfolk and unsurprisingly I found the MU to feel great. Lost most of my games to just mad flooding, it happens. Oppo also lost due to a mull to four one game. BtB was typically the biggest impact card from them - I played around it whenever possible, and the only match where it got me was one where I only drew one fetchland.
Played a bit against Elves. I'm sure I played fairly poorly here due to inexperience. Much harder to play against than Modern Elves, where they effectively have only eight payoff cards which are easy to interact with. Using 4 Leyline as the GY hate and not playing any Cage was the real pain here. I had GSZ cast against me six times one game and I ended up losing to NO. Lack of PFire also hurts. Overall MU seems bad, but could easily be improved.
Played against Reanimator. Every game but one was a non-game: they killed me T1 on the play preboard, and every other game was won on the back of Leyline. They did hardcast a Chancellor, but I managed to get five mana for BBE to win the race. This MU really showcased why QBTurtle plays Leyline over other hate. Still, I think the versatility of Cage+Surgical might be worth more than Leyline. I guess it's mostly a meta call.
Played two matchess against Burn. Brutality really does a number there. Didn't drop a game. I did draw a Hymn every game and in general ran hot, though. It's easy to see how we lose, but since we already want to play Duress + Brutality in the board, we kind of get to have a solid board plan for free.
Aside from that I played against a variety of UWx midrange/control decks. Most of these matches felt pretty good. This is basically all I played against before updating my list, so I was playing Sylvan MB and a different removal suite. Not really a lot to comment on other than the fact that against Grixis/4c, QB has no direct answers to an Angler. Just Liliana or a 5/6 Goyf (which is hard to hit sometimes vs Delve). I imagine he doesn't board in Leyline against Grixis, seems terrible.
Overall thoughts... I'm kind of mixed on Flayer still. Sometimes it's really sweet, such as in the face of a TNN. However I definitely notice the lack of actual card advantage in the deck and needing to attack to give us card selection can be a downside. Delirium isn't hard to achieve but it's not rare that we don't have it, usually missing creature. When Flayer isn't a 4/4 I have no doubt that it's worse than Bob. I'm going to go back to a 2-1 split of Flayer and Sylvan for the time being. Might end up switch back to Confidants after a while. I think I also want to try +1 Pulse over probably a Decay.
I still feel like I can play both Punishing and non-Punishing Jund and be happy with it. I'll stick with the Fires-free version for now. 4 bolt, running multiple Kommand and the dual-heavy manabase have all felt great.
Regarding the sideboard, I'm fairly sure I will not be playing Leylines locally. I could run into anything and I'm fairly sure Reanimator or other decks that lose to Leyline wont be common enough to outweigh having the slightly more versatile 2-2 Cage/Surgical split. I've also been down on REB/Pyroblast, but don't have a lot of experience playing with the cards. Will continue to try out.
I could use some pointers on how people sideboard with Jund in Legacy. I don't have issues deciding in Modern, but I have tons more experience in that format and I think the boarding decisions are a little more clear-cut. When should I be trimming removal? When should I trim discard and should it be Hymn or TS first? What about Lili? So far when I've felt like I don't want eight discard spells I've been trying to decide if it's worth more to have a 2-for-1 or the more precise TS post board. For example against Merfolk, I found myself pretty torn there but felt I definitely didn't want all eight spells and four Lili and I had a ton to board in (Push, Deluge, 2 Brutality, 2 Pyroblast, E Plague). I think I ended up cutting 5 discard spells, a Lili and a flayer and leaving 3 TS in on the draw and 3 Hymn on the play.
Yeah Tombstalker and Hooting Mandrills (and Tasigur too) still have the same pros as Angler (can't be decayed or bolted) but slightly different value distribution, I think any Bob-less Jund decks could fit 1-2 Mandrills in pretty easy, maybe in a Flayer/BBE slot or 8th Hymn/Thoughtseize slot. Tombstalker are a bit harder to cast so not as consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
Hi mates, I want to try this list, because in my 2 tournments where I made top8/top4 I saw that Lightning Bolt is a poor card right now.
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
SIDEBOARD
3 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Diabolic Edict
1 To the Slaughter
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
I don't want to cut the combo PFire + GotBurnwillows..
I got started from the list of QBTURTLE15, which is making excellent results. In comparison though, I want to play Dark Confidant (there are a lot of Grixis in my meta) and PFire instead of Bolt.
What do u think about the list?
I'd never play zero CMC1 removal spells in the 75. Being able to kill their DRS, Delver, Mother of Runes, Glistener Elf, etc. turn 1 on the draw, and kill threats efficiently through Wasteland is very valuable. Sanctum Prelate on 2 also becomes a huge problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by toffee
If I truly thought the CMC1 removal (Bolt, Push) wasn't worth playing I'd play Aggro Loam instead of Jund.
I came back to legacy a few months ago after a 2-year-break and decided to run Jund for our small local monthly-legacy.
I went 2:2, beat Infect twice, lost a close match to Mentor Miracles and 0:2 against an 8-Moon-Rabblemaster list with G1 and G2 first turn Blood Moon (could've won G1 if he hadn't had Chalice@2 for my 2 Goyfs as well).
So that's how my list looks like atm:
lands(23):
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Badlands
2x Bayou
2x Swamp
1x Forest
4x Wasteland
creatures(15):
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
3x Bloodbraid Elf
spells(22):
4x Thoughtseize
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Punishing Fire
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Fatal Push
2x Lightning Bolt
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Sylvan Library
sideboard(15):
3x Duress
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Pyroblast
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Pithing Needle
1x Golgari Charm
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Scavenging Ooze
I think you want some cmc1 removals, especially for killing important 1drops on the draw, I'm just not that sure how many you actually want and which combination of Bolt/Push is the way to go. Maybe I want that 3rd Decay again...
I like Pulse as a catch-all answer MD, that also gets rid of high cmc creatures like Angler and Tombstalker and tokens.
This list seems spicy from Japan.
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00312SOT/
Also this sideboard tech
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...tiverseid=3531
And http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...iverseid=23171
Thoughs?
Anyone still testing Jund?
I, recently, have fully committed to the Chalice + Destructive Flow lock. It is such a house against most decks.
Also, I have been having great success with Prowling Serpopard and Harsh Mentor. Serpopard leaves blue players camping counterspells and wishing they were actually usable.
Harsh Mentor, on the other hand, is exactly that, HARSH. Over the course of 3 games vs. DnT, he did well over 20 damage in just triggers. Combined with the aforementioned lock condition, every time someone fetches a basic to get +1 mana in the face of Flow, they Bolt themselves. Teehee. Reanimator loved that, I dropped Mentor t1 with Chrome Mox, passed. He goes, ok.....ouch.....*cough* fetch, thoughtseize? LMFAO. Turn 2 he Reanimates Grizzy putting him at 6....he didn't survive much longer after that.
Serpopard can be seriously aggressive, however I realize the double green plays the same troublesome role as double black or double red. Sometimes the mana just isn't there. But I have noticed lately the deck is functioning alot smoother with the Moxes, and t1 Chalice is just such a blowout against this format.
Will post decklist if requested, but yes, I'm still running Persecutor. Lmfao, he just beats ass.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Interesting... can I see your list?Quote:
Originally Posted by KærvekTheMerciless
I played Jund for awhile but quit about a year ago but I'm thinking about getting back into it now that miracles is gone.
Pm'd you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFrowny_
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Also interested, as I picked up a set of foil Destructive Flows when I saw some interesting lists awhile back. Don't have the Chrome moxes, but I'm sure Mox Diamond would work about the same with Loam.