Well, Ruin is a turn faster and can be cast under Gaddok Teeg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
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Well, Ruin is a turn faster and can be cast under Gaddok Teeg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
I struggle to think of a situation where you'd cast your ruin on turn 3Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
This is a valid point though =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
They side out gaddok teeg against us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
It s cool to have a chance to beat combo with little green guys. I appreciate that. But considering other MU... Maverick is the most played aggro deck right now. Is it only me that thinks maverick is not such a piece of cake? I think that MU is pretty even preboard. Maybe slightly favourable post board if one plays perish but still it is quite tough. They have ways to destroy aether vial, spot removal, tons of blockers for lackey, huge dudes, mom that gives protection from red and equipments. Pretty much anything they play must be dealt with. And for most of these things they have a tutor that puts them directly on the battlefield. I think it s a tough MU
Maverick isn't a slam dunk match up that alot of people are claiming, and thats even with Pyrokensis and Tuktuks in the main. I think we are around 60-40% to win assuming you are a very good goblin player, against a good maverick player. By wasting slots on the small amount of combo matchups we may encounter, we are really hurting our chances. RUG is also a very real deck. And they run goyfs, so no. Goyf is still very real, just not alot of them in local 20-30 man tournaments. Relics are crucial to beating them, and cutting all these tools that beat the most popular decks is bad....Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
I think that in valuating a MU you can t consider you are a better player than him.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblueduck
In my testing against maverick relics are not good enough to be boarded in. The problem is that basically any card MD is needed so there isn t much to side out. If anything goes out, something huge (like perish) has to come in otherwise it s not worth it. Sideboarding with RUG is a bit better because there are more cards MD that are not so relevant. In this case I think relic deserves to be sideboarded.
By the way I tested pithing needle and I think is actually worth to be sided in against maverick. It stops anything dangerous on board: from equipments to elspeth to mom. Especially when playing T1 vial, T2 pithing needle on quasali pridemage is often gg.
On the other hand I don t think Anarchy is the way to go. They don t wait for you having 4 lands and it doesn t do anything against equipments and ooze (which became a 3-of). I don t think that maverick should be one of the reasons to include anarchy in side.
I guess the theory is to make a consisten MD that beats those decks, so you can run 12 dedicated combo cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblueduck
A list with 1 Scrapper, 2 Relics, 2 Knesis, 2-3 Tarfire/Bolts, is very capable of acomplishing that, while still being very good against other decks.
Maverick is why my other 3 sideboard slots are pyrokenesis. I beat maverick in a tourney 2 weeks ago and key to the victory was siding in these 3 cards. ( combined with tarfires, gempalms and stingscourgers already in main )
Mind you I've had problems with pro from red creatures and progenitus, so i may try out black for perish and warren weirdings, instead of gempalms and pyrokenesis.
Of course the splash requires fetchlands and duals making my current mana base less stable at 20 lands only, so as always more fine tuning!
Yes you are correct. I meant to say, assuming both the goblin player and maverick players are solid/competent its a 60-40 advantage. I wanted to point that part out, because I am reading some of the reports posted the last few days and you see in some of the games the Maverick player makes huge unbelievable errors. Which makes the goblin players think the match-up is much better than what it is. When in reality, it was due to just a player who is bad or just has never seen a how lackey can interact and absolutely take over a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
If you like Pithing needle, then Cursed Totem, is a 1000x times better attacking Maverick. As for Anarchy, it isn't amazing. But when compared to the other often side boarded chaos warp, it hits almost everything warp does, and is much more versatile. It is a good card, and is good hate in a lot of random match ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
I understand the theory, but in practice it doenst even work. Even with 12 sideboard combos, you still are less than 50-50 against combo. And combo is such a general term, because high tide, is much more resilient than SI or ANT, and can win through hate much easier. I don't want to be a dick, but word to the wise. If you don't want to lose to combo, don't play goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
If your board isn't dedicated to combo hate, I've found Blood Moon to be strong against Maverick. If they failed to fetch a Forest right away it's basically GG.
So Lightning Bolt > Tarfire? I mean, your day could have easily been ruined by the storm player going off that turn. The extra damage would have been pivotal in preventing your opponent from getting a fifth and potentially lethal turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by orcanmail
Yeah it is awsome but only against maverick. Pithing needle is great against another super widely played deck: esper stoneforge/UW stoneforge. It is the aswer against jace and equipment which are crucial for them. Also, they have less way to interact with it as compared to maverick.Quote:
If you like Pithing needle, then Cursed Totem, is a 1000x times better attacking Maverick. As for Anarchy, it isn't amazing. But when compared to the other often side boarded chaos warp, it hits almost everything warp does, and is much more versatile. It is a good card, and is good hate in a lot of random match ups.
@Ace/Homebrew: interesting to hear that but it never worked out for me. They always fetch basics against me and a single hierarch can ruin it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
After u showed them Pyrokinesis Game1? I dont think so. A good Maverick Player keeps his tutorable 1of.
If you want to dedicate more than 4 sb slots to combo, id run 4 Cotv and 3 Earwig Squads
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblueduck
I can say that I have a lot of experience in fighting combo with Goblins - and my experience says that you might be wrong here.
(1) It's not the NUMBER of combo-hate-cards but the QUALITY that counts. I mean: if you only got "bounceable" cards (Leyline, Chalice, Thorn) that makes it easier to play through them. There you need to split you hate, like this: Chalice (bouncable/discardable), Mindbreak Trap (Discardable), Earwig Squad (only "Thoughtseizable").
(2) You can reach a winpercentage of ~60% postboard with the right cofiguration of sideboard cards. AND: 4-of Piledriver is a must. Hate is useless if you aren't fast enough.
(3) I find it absolutely reasonable if Goblins try to improve the combo-MU. The point is (and here I agree with you) that you may not dedicate your whole SB to combo. The key here is to pick cards that are flexible and applicable in other MUs. Like this:
Chalice: Elves Combo, Burn, UR Delver
Earwig Squad: any deck that wins via 2-card combos (Hive Mind, Sneak Show, Enchantress, Painted Stone)
Surgical Extraction: Dredge, Reanimator
Pyroblast: CanThresh, UR Delver
...
R1 Reanimator
G1 I win the roll, lead with Lackey. He plays no land and discards an Iona. I play a Badland and cheat some stuff in play. He plays an Underground Sea and Careful Studies, discarding 2 more guys. I play a Waste on the Sea and keep swinging. W
G2 I mull to Leyline. He didn't side in Show and Tell, and he can't dig to bounce before it's over.
1-0
We de-sideboard and play one for fun before the next round. I use Stingscourger and Weirding to keep his board clear.
R2 RUG Thresh
G1 I mull to 5. Lose.
G2 I side in 4 Chalice of the Void and Perish and take out some irrelevant Goblins (Scrappers, shave a little). I mull to 5 again. Lose again.
We de-sideboard and play for fun again. This time I keep my 7 and am actually well on my way to winning when the next round's pairings are put up.
1-1
R3 Food Chain Elves
G1 I love this deck I'm facing. He splashes W just for Enlightened Tutor. I'm on the draw and have a Lackey but I brick on removal spells, allowing him to get board position and genreate tons of mana with Food Chain into Emrakul. Lose.
G2 I side in Chalice of the Void and Perish. I put a lot of pressure on early with an explosive Lackey hand. He doesn't block because he needs to build his board. I Perish. W
G3 A friendly reminder: If you find yourself facing a Food Chain deck, side in your Mindbreak Traps. Turns out they like sweeping thier board for Brass Herald, and a lone Trap can be GG. I was thinking about this when he was Chaining Heralds together ftw. I did manage to get a Sharpshooter in play with Haste the turn before he won, but because Food Chain removes from the game it doesn't trigger Sharpshooter. Still, sharpshooter was the best choice for Matron as it would keep him from filling his board with blockers or whatever.
1-2
R1 I capitalized on my opponent's mistakes. R2 I drew bad openers. R3 I made a huge sideboarding error that greatly reduced my chances of winning.
I missed the safety of MonoR when a badlands got Wasted on me against Thresh.
On Combo MU:
Earwig Squad is just really really slow. 4 Mindbreak Trap, 4 Chalice seems more and more like the way to go. It doesn't hurt either that a resolved Chalice is GG against RU, Thresh, and Burn.
@jrw1985: how many chalice to do side in against RUG Thresh? Also when on the draw?
I miss the moroR safety as well against wasteland. Do you play black spells MD? I am quite convinced right now that the way to go is to have some BR duals but playing only red cards MD and fetching basic mountains. When against maverick/RUG Thresh side 3 perish and that s it. I think perish is so powerfull against them that it is woth it.
Squad alone is to slow, but paired with Cotv you should have the turns to prowl it. Getting Tendrils from the current ANT lists is gg.
Also Squad can be useful in other matches like BUG-Control
About B-Splash: I said it last year, you can safely run 1 Swamp, 1 Badlands and 6-8 Fetches and still be able to have B when you need it.
Here is my current list:
//lands 21
7 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Badlands
//Removal
2 Tarfire
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weirding
2 Gempalm Incinerator
//Base
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 AEther Vial
2 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Matron
2 Mogg War Marshal
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 1 Earwig Squad
I want to playtest this. It may be the safe way through wastelandsQuote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
Side ALL THE CHALICE!Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
But then I'll have less Goblins! Who cares? If you stick a Chalice they can't play 75% of their deck.
I play 1 Weirding MD. I'm going to add 1 Swamp as my 22nd land and 61st card. 3 Perish seems good.
usually i fetch to 2-3 mountains and then grab the swamp. if you need b real quick fetch the badlands.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
I don't know if it is just me, I find that Maverick is far from a favourable matchup. Yes, it isn't all that bad, but it is 50/50 at best. Maverick has answers to almost everything we have, and they have better utility creatures via GSZ and lands via KotR. We wouldn't roll over but it is always a good fight. I lost more than a few times to those small little flyers they have, Scryb Ranger, Aven Mindcensor etc. Pyrokinesis helps alot in that aspect, even with that MD, I don't think Goblins have a definite advantage over Maverick preboard or postboard.
Not to mention, they do have some tricky packages available, NO, Royal Retainers, Fauna Shaman--> Elesh Norn, Punishing Fire. Things like Geist of Saint Traft and Elspeth is also kinda of awkward to handle.
Goblins advantage is that Maverick is not geared towards aggro and many of their sideboard cards does nothing against goblins. I find Maverick to be suspected against Vial decks in general too, it took them time to find a pridemage.
This is why I don't think we can be so secured as to use so many sideboard slots against combos. A black splash biggest attraction is the great sideboard options available.