[Deck] BUG "Shardless" Control

So you are saying that dnt's best plays of turn 1 vial, turn 2 Thalia off of cavern, turn 3 recruiter off of cavern into an Ethersworn Canonist/containment priest vialed in is just...not...good enough against combo? It feels like you may be wrong.

Edit: I apologize if that came across as rude, I was at work and just in a hurry. I do think, however, that DnT has game, quite a bit actually, against combo. Sometimes you can't beat a turn 1 EtW for 6 storm. Sometimes Griselbrand off of a turn 2 Show n Tell with Force backup gets there. However, there are plenty of games where cantripping multiple times and getting ported/wastelanded into having to waste the cantrips finding more lands is enough time to vial in or draw into the creatures that do impact more than the board state, and do grind those games out.

I'm thinking about taking this deck and picking up Magic for a tournament. Problem is, I don't know what I'm looking at in terms of what's in the meta these days. What new cards are in decks these days, and what decks are popular these days? My main concentration is beating Miracles, so this is the main deck:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Ancestral Visions
4 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Force of Will

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar-Pit
2 Wasteland

1 Pithing Needle
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Disfigure
3 Thoughtseize
1 Null Rod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Krosan Grip

Suggestions would be much appreciated!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

I'm thinking about taking this deck and picking up Magic for a tournament. Problem is, I don't know what I'm looking at in terms of what's in the meta these days. What new cards are in decks these days, and what decks are popular these days? My main concentration is beating Miracles, so this is the main deck:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Ancestral Visions
4 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Force of Will

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar-Pit
2 Wasteland

1 Pithing Needle
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Disfigure
3 Thoughtseize
1 Null Rod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Krosan Grip

Suggestions would be much appreciated!

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You do want to interact with TKS somehow that isn't 2 lilis and a pulse. I took out disfigures for 2 dismembers. I would cut a Thoughtseize and a krosan for 2 dismembers. Not having dread of nights knowing DnT will be at your tournament is also a huge misplay. Eldrazi and DnT are going to be popular decks next to miracles being cheap and efficient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingtk3

Reguarding Recruiter of the Guard pushing out combo from the format: the card costs 3 and then the fetched creature (containment, canonist, Prelate) must also be cast afterward.
In the ideal scenario where D&T plays a vial on the first turn and a land drop every turn it can resolve a 2 CC hate creature on turn 3: most of the combo decks of the format would have already comboed or find a solution by that point.

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King, the D+T players won't be counting on Recruiter in that way. When the game plays out well for D+T against combo it looks like a turn 2 Thalia, Canonist, Revoker, Containment Priest, Rest in Peace, or whatever to slow the game down. That gives you several more turns to deploy a second threat. It is at that point that Recruiter fetching Prelate looks pretty strong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

I'm thinking about taking this deck and picking up Magic for a tournament. Problem is, I don't know what I'm looking at in terms of what's in the meta these days. What new cards are in decks these days, and what decks are popular these days? My main concentration is beating Miracles, so this is the main deck:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Ancestral Visions
4 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Force of Will

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar-Pit
2 Wasteland

1 Pithing Needle
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Disfigure
3 Thoughtseize
1 Null Rod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Krosan Grip

Suggestions would be much appreciated!

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I'd make the following changes:

Maindeck:
-1 Delta
-1 Jace
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Ancestral Vision
+2 Wasteland
+1 Baleful Strix
+1 Ponder or Baleful Strix

Sideboard:
-2 Krosan Grip
-1 Surgical Extraction
-1 Golgari Charm
+1 Dismember
+1 Leyline of the Void or Planar Void
+1 Garruk Relentless
+1 Painful Truths, Sylvan Library, Phyrexian Revoker, Dismember, Maelstrom Pulse, Umezawa's Jitte, Liliana, the Last Hope, Virtue's Ruin, Dread of Night, Engineered Plague, Golgari Charm, Duress, Life from the Loam, or Crucible of Worlds (this is more of a flex slot, I realize that Golgari Charm is what I'm suggesting be cut for it, but I think these options are all worth considering)

Going up on Wastelands lets you go down on fetches and makes Lands much more manageable while giving you some free wins against Eldrazi and Delver. Ponder works immediately rather than making you wait 4 turns and helps with Goyf sizing. You just want more Strixes in any fair matchup, and Jace is almost always a liability at this point. I've made all of these arguments on previous pages in more detail.

The board changes I recommend are more drastic, but your board didn't seem very focused on its ostensible point, which is beating Miracles while not folding to everything else. Surgical Extraction is questionable in lots of decks to begin with, and it's at its absolute worst when you Cascade into it. Your maindeck is well configured to beat Miracles as it is, so your sideboard plan should just be to attack Top and avoid getting punked out by Mentor and Red Blasts. Painful Truths and Garruk are the best value plays against them because they aren't Blue and almost always are 2-for-1s at worst. Garruk in particular is almost unbeatable if he sticks for 2 turns while also being some of the best counterplay to Terminus available in the format.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mysential

You do want to interact with TKS somehow that isn't 2 lilis and a pulse. I took out disfigures for 2 dismembers. I would cut a Thoughtseize and a krosan for 2 dismembers. Not having dread of nights knowing DnT will be at your tournament is also a huge misplay. Eldrazi and DnT are going to be popular decks next to miracles being cheap and efficient.

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What is "TKS?" Do you mean to have a total of four Dismembers or just two? Removing the Disfigure would give me space for two Dismembers. Has Delver mostly disappeared?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by btm10

I'd make the following changes:

Maindeck:
-1 Delta
-1 Jace
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Ancestral Vision
+2 Wasteland
+1 Baleful Strix
+1 Ponder or Baleful Strix

Sideboard:
-2 Krosan Grip
-1 Surgical Extraction
-1 Golgari Charm
+1 Dismember
+1 Leyline of the Void or Planar Void
+1 Garruk Relentless
+1 Painful Truths, Sylvan Library, Phyrexian Revoker, Dismember, Maelstrom Pulse, Umezawa's Jitte, Liliana, the Last Hope, Virtue's Ruin, Dread of Night, Engineered Plague, Golgari Charm, Duress, Life from the Loam, or Crucible of Worlds (this is more of a flex slot, I realize that Golgari Charm is what I'm suggesting be cut for it, but I think these options are all worth considering)

Going up on Wastelands lets you go down on fetches and makes Lands much more manageable while giving you some free wins against Eldrazi and Delver. Ponder works immediately rather than making you wait 4 turns and helps with Goyf sizing. You just want more Strixes in any fair matchup, and Jace is almost always a liability at this point. I've made all of these arguments on previous pages in more detail.

The board changes I recommend are more drastic, but your board didn't seem very focused on its ostensible point, which is beating Miracles while not folding to everything else. Surgical Extraction is questionable in lots of decks to begin with, and it's at its absolute worst when you Cascade into it. Your maindeck is well configured to beat Miracles as it is, so your sideboard plan should just be to attack Top and avoid getting punked out by Mentor and Red Blasts. Painful Truths and Garruk are the best value plays against them because they aren't Blue and almost always are 2-for-1s at worst. Garruk in particular is almost unbeatable if he sticks for 2 turns while also being some of the best counterplay to Terminus available in the format.

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Do you mean for the deck to run on four Wasteland? Any color issues?

Just because I'm raising questions doesn't mean I'm not considering it. I'm questioning things so I can understand for better game play decisions.

TKS is Thought-Knot Seer. I haven't had color problems with 4 Wastelands; Ponder definitely helps smooth out the mana.

I still like the Sylvan Library + shardless and gives you a better midrange strat against DnT, Miracles, and Eldrazi. You are already pre boarding for those match ups and sylvan helps you dig into your deck the moment you put it down vs. Ponder where they can just counter it (miracles).

Liliana, the last hope has been so far the real deal vs. DnT. I have been boarding her against miracles because garruk is a bit slow at 4, and it really depends on the miracle builds if they have more 3s or 4s. The last list so far on somerset was 5 4 drops, and 4 3 drops making liliana harder to counter. Her ultimate is basically the same thing, but i will continue to test if garruk is still better or if liliana does the same job, just 2 turns slower.

1-2 dismembers is just fine. You don't need a full 4 to deal with Seers, it could be 2 disfigure + 1 dismember, but if you don't see eldrazi in your meta. The 2-1 split is fine, but if eldrazi is a large portion, then bump to either a 1 - 2 or cut disfigure completely for 2 dread of night and 2 dismember.

SB would be like:
2 Dread of Night
2 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 ravenous traps or leyline of the void (I prefer ravenous due to being able to play it at any point of the game vs. waiting to open it or pay 4 mana, your choice)
2 Dismember
1 Liliana, the last hope
1 pithing needle
1 toxic deluge (should be mained if you see large DnT and Eldrazi)
1 null rod
1 Jitte

Dread of night is clearly for DnT, but you also bring it in vs miracle mentor decks.

Surgical is a MUST imo, pushes storm and lands out as you take care of grove and combo pieces. Also has generic use in mirror matches, etc.

Thoughtseize is powerful vs. sneak and show + combo decks.

Ravenous or leyline is must against dredge, like i said i prefer ravenous due to being playable at any point of the game.

2 Dismember if you see eldrazi, otherwise 2-1 split cutting the null rod. Null rod isn't really necessary unless you know there is a MUD deck.

Liliana against miracles and DnT, Nut vs. Dnt and still testing vs. miracles. It is still a clock, but it is a very slow clock and you have time because its miracles and your board is growing at an exponential state.

Jitte for mirror, eldrazi, dnt.

I prefer 2 library in my 75. 1x main, 1x board. I always play 1x main in Junk and shardless.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Wanted to add my two cents here as well, I agree much more with btm's choices. Library is an insane card, but it's more of a durdly smoothing card. Shardless is already set up as a card advantage deck that uses life as a resource until it gets stabilized, then wins with a grindy long game by sheer CA. Library uses life to generate card advantage, and smooths our draws, but does not forward our game plan proactively. It's basically just an enchantment to grow goyf. A 1-of Ponder works fine if you're looking for more smoothing- it pitches to force and has a built-in shuffle effect, which is extremely relevant.

For reference, I play 2 Strix (3rd in board), 3 hymn, 2 Lili/ 1 Jace, and 1/1 Pulse & Deluge. I play 9 fetches, 1 tar pit, 3 wasteland. The Jace is extremely close to being cut for that third Strix. My sideboard is as follows:

2x Disfigure
1x Dismember
1x Baleful Strix
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
3x Thoughtseize
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Garruk Relentless

My local meta is very heavy in Lands/Reanimator/ANT, hence the 4 Leylines, but I actually really like the setup for an open meta as well, as it's serious hate for some of our worst matchups. If I cut Jace and move the Strix main, I'll probably add a second Deluge to the board, the card is insane. I'm sacrificing something against elves and Nic Fit by not having a cage, but those matchups are so bad and the decks are uncommon enough that I'm OK losing to them if they come along.

What do you guys think of trying out liliana, the last hope in the main and collective brutality off the side?

I'm currently trying out a 1/1 split of the two three mana Lilianas (and the Last Hope has been quite strong) but Collective Brutality seems too slow as removal and too narrow as discard to be worth the slot. It's not like Dimir Charm where you give up some versatility to get access to an effect the deck doesn't normally have access to. Testing it is totally reasonable, but I'm skeptical.

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Originally Posted by btm10

Garruk is insane in any matchup where you can expect to cast him. At his worst he's a Bitterblossom but makes 2/2s and randomly kills a Snapcaster Mage. At his best he's an almost unbeatable trump in BGx pseudo-mirrors, against Miracles, and puts in solid work against D&T. He's worth bringing in against Eldrazi since the Deathtouch Wolves that Garruk, the Veil-Cursed makes are basically a free Strix every turn.

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Is it with this reasoning that one may consider taking out Jace, the Mind Sculptor for Garruk Relentless in the main?

And I really do think Shardless needs to be running at least 1 Engineered Plague especially if you're running the 2nd Toxic Deluge in the board. I think that Engineered Plague wins the spot over the second Toxic Deluge because having permanent answers to things is usually a good thing for us. Plus having Plague and Deluge gives the deck better versatility and flexibility. Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to bring in Engineered Plague and name "Monk". I hate to say it, but I think the worst cards in our sideboard at this point in time are our graveyard hate cards. At high level events, Reanimator shows up in low numbers or not at all, and Dredge hardly makes it past the first few rounds. Legacy players seem to be playing more "fair" decks than anything else. If I made a top 5 list of the most popular decks in Legacy right now, I'd say they are:
1) Miracles
2) Grixis Delver
3) Infect
4) Storm
5) Eldrazi
*not necessarily in that order but I think the order might be pretty close.

I haven't quite finished my deck list yet. I'm messing around with the idea of playing Leovold, Emissary of Trest as a 1 of in the main. Shutting down opposing Brainstorms, Ponders, and Tops seems like a really good effect to have in this type of deck. It's not like Leovold is the best card Shardless BUG has ever seen or anything like that, but it might be worth having one just to have access to the effect.

These are my current thoughts on Shardless BUG as of right now.

Hey=)

I'm new at The Source and with Shardless BUG. So far I have only played Jund and Aggro Loam and I'm a big fan of grindy midrange decks with a serious value train. Thus I came across Shardless and so far I have been very pleased.

Nevertheless, I got some minor problems/questions which I couldn't solve/answer myself (this primer is really extensive and there are a lot of posts I still have to cover^^):

1) Are there any regular streamers with Shardless Aggro? I'm listening to numerous podcasts but I feel that some specific Shardless content would be helpful.

2) As a Jund player, I really appreciated the power of Wasteland, 1 cmc Discard and Hymn to Tourach. However, current lists don't seem to maximize these slots. Is it possible to play 4 Wasteland and 7-8 Discard Spells? (currently I am playing The Brainstorm Show's List which I really enjoy - however they are rather short on discard).

Any advice is very much appreciated=D

I used to run four Wastelands. I cut it to three and added another basic in response to the rising prevalence of other Wasteland decks, namely Death and Taxes, and decks that are gonna loam/waste me into oblivion.. Shardless's mana is notoriously shaky, and I don't think four wastelands is smart anymore. As for discard, I run a fairly typical discard build with 2 thoughtseizes and three hymns. The reason I don't run more is because, while an early cascade into Hymn is a blow-out, a late cascade into Thoughtseize blows.

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Originally Posted by scry_me_a_river

Hey=)

I'm new at The Source and with Shardless BUG. So far I have only played Jund and Aggro Loam and I'm a big fan of grindy midrange decks with a serious value train. Thus I came across Shardless and so far I have been very pleased.

Nevertheless, I got some minor problems/questions which I couldn't solve/answer myself (this primer is really extensive and there are a lot of posts I still have to cover^^):

1) Are there any regular streamers with Shardless Aggro? I'm listening to numerous podcasts but I feel that some specific Shardless content would be helpful.

2) As a Jund player, I really appreciated the power of Wasteland, 1 cmc Discard and Hymn to Tourach. However, current lists don't seem to maximize these slots. Is it possible to play 4 Wasteland and 7-8 Discard Spells? (currently I am playing The Brainstorm Show's List which I really enjoy - however they are rather short on discard).

Any advice is very much appreciated=D

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i think the brainstorm list is criminally short on lands. 21 lands is really greedy. you should just look at your meta and decide what you want your md to be good against. the problem with wasteland i find is that the deck is sososososo mana hungry that sometimes you cant afford to use your wasteland to get them. its not really what the deck is trying to do. although wasteland can get you some games its usually smarter to just use the wasteland to get their utility lands like tarpits in the mirror and volcanics against miracles. its also good against eldrazi but being able to cast baleful strixes is wayyyyyy better. i see some people who run 4 wasteland adding a 1 of loam or crucible in the sideboard which ive tried and is pretty cool but again i think its really not what the deck is trying to do. another matchup where having 4 wasteland is good is lands but your matchup there is SO BAD you have to really warp your sideboard to beat it and if youre running 4 leyline they can still assemble the combo and you still have to draw a pithing needle that they can k grip so i just think that matchup is just really bad and you should just hope to not see it. even if youre running the meddling mage package you have to name punishing fire and then life from the loam your mana is even more fragile and they can STILL just naturally draw the combo. wasteland is also great against infect but pithing needle also helps on the same wavelength against inkmoth.
sorry as far as your question goes i think:
4 underground
1 trop
1 bayou
4 polluted delta
4 verdant catacomb
1 misty
1 marsh flats
1 swamp
1 forest
4 wasteland
is good if you like wasteland.
if you like tar pit i like 1 tar pit 3 wasteland or 2 tar pit/2 wasteland. if your meta is full of wasteland decks you can also up bayou and trop counts. i usually think you want more bayou if youre playing hymns md and more trops if youre into jace tms and vendilion clique. i like not running double blue spells because of how vulnerable your mana is, and also how much of a blowout reb/pyro blasts are. most games youre lowering your mana curve and simplifying the mana you need allowing you to run smoothly if youre forced to use 2-3 mana. i think if you want to not get wasted off green mana you just need to be conservative with what you fetch against certain matchups or up your bayou/trop, drop an underground and or misty/polluted/marsh flats. i like 10 fetchlands but 9 seems ok and 8 seems too low. the deck runs really nice on the pairs underground/forest, trop/swamp and underground, forest, swamp so unless youre really going for that hymn i wouldnt be afraid to fetch smart!
there are also other utility lands to consider such as tower of the magistrate, raths edge and volraths stronghold but i really dont think they match wastelands power level.

hope this helps

So i'm thinking of just straight cutting the hymns from the main deck. there are only 2 so our discard plan in game 1 is pretty unreliable and depending on how our mana turns out in the first few turns, (fetching, basics, wasteland, or being wastelanded), our mana isn't always able to support the double black for it. sometimes it can be hard enough to get double black for Liliana of the Veil if we haven't had our mana messed with. On that note, messing with this deck's mana is one of the best ways to beat this deck. That being said, I'm considering trying out a list that looks something like this.

Lands (23)

2 Bayou
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

Creatures (15)
3 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells (22)

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
2 Dismember
3 Force of Will
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge

Sideboard (15)

2 Disfigure
2 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague
1 Force of Will
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Notion Thief
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique

Some card choice explanations
1) If you're not running the Meddling Mage package in the sideboard then I like having access to the 23rd land in the main. This deck is super mana hungry and needs it's land drops. Especially when some of those land drops are make us vulnerable like Wasteland and Creeping Tar Pit. Wasteland because it can color screw us, or be 1 less mana for us if we use it, and creeping tar pit if it comes into play, gets wastelanded or ported and basically never untaps. 22 Lands is probably still fine considering the main deck is missing the 4th Force of Will. If I went to 22 Lands I'd cut the 3rd Wasteland. But the 3rd Wasteland as the 23 Land makes me feel like I have more freedom to toss an early Wasteland at my opponent and not get punished for it.

2) There are a lot of people who will probably say there is no possible way you can cut Hymn to Tourach from this deck because it has been a staple in it for so long. To that I say, do not forget that Thoughtseize ALSO used to be a staple of this deck. But even it was cut from the maindeck because over time it had less and less value based on the decks that were prevalent in the metagame. If you think about your strategy in game 2 and 3 against the popular decks in the format, Hymn to Tourach is lousy vs all but one of them. Storm. And I hate to say it but we're probably not winning Game 1 against Storm with access to only 2 Hymn to Tourach. I also don't think Hymn is very effective against Miracles because if they get a Sensei's Divining Top in play, then they're playing off the top of their deck anyway. Against Infect, Eldrazi, and Death and Taxes it doesn't really matter what they have in hand. Against Grixis Delver, Hymn fuels the opponent's Delve mechanic pretty well. In my experience, the Grixis Delver matchup has also been very favorable for us because they have a hard time getting past our threats. But watch out, Forked Bolt kills your Baleful Strixes so hard. The threats that we need to answer are on the battlefield. So I feel with the current metagame, Hymn to Tourach may need to stay in the sideboard.

3) With moving Hymn to Tourach to the sideboard the question became, what do you want instead? Sometimes when playing this deck I feel like I come up short on removal. So I tried to come up with a removal spell that wouldn't punish us for using the Cascade mechanic. For example, you could run Disfigure as it has great application vs Infect, Death and Taxes and Grixis Delver. However, having 6 spells that could potentially miss seems like a bad idea. We all know the dreaded feeling of cascading into an Abrupt Decay when it doesn't have targets. So it's with this in mind that I went for Dismember. It can be used early for 1 mana which is great if our mana is being messed with. Or, since we run plently of black sources we can afford not having to pay life all the time to cast the spell. Because of the potential for life loss though, it might be worth considering the removal of Toxic Deluge from the maindeck as well.

4) Garruk Relentless instead of Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Again, a card choice that makes me go "whaaaaat!?" but all things considering, Garruk might just be better at 4 mana by giving us something this deck really lacks. Creatures to attack with. Tarmogoyf is our heavy hitter. Everyone knows that. But how often do you find yourself attacking with just Shardless Agents and Baleful Strixes? Garruk does only make 2/2's but if he goes unanswered long enough, that endless stream of 2/2's can win us the game as well as give us more creatures to block, preserving our life total. And worst case scenario, he comes down and kills something. But Garruk is supposed to be really good against Miracles from what I've been hearing and of course it doesn't die to Pyroblast. This is only half of it though. The other reason why it's good is because it can keep pumping out creatures even after our opponent casts a Terminus. Allowing us to only play 1 or 2 of our actual creatures while filling the board up with expendable token creatures that will just keep coming turns after the Terminus has cleared the board.

5) Narrow sideboard cards like Dread of Night aren't usually what I go after when it comes to my sideboard for this deck, but Death and Taxes has trouble dealing with permanent based removal. Engineered Plague may seem narrow as well but it actually helps out in a lot of matchups killing Young Pyromancer tokens, Monastery Mentor tokens, problematic creatures like Mother of Runes and Thalia. And is even there when you happen to face of that dreaded Elf deck. It's a turn faster than Night of Soul's Betrayal and doesn't hurt us since our creatures won't get smaller as a result of this card being on the battlefield.

SO, I'd love to hear some feedback regarding this list keeping in mind that the decks I have in mind that I'm trying to tweak this deck against are, Miracles, Infect, Eldrazi, Grixis Delver, Death and Taxes, and Storm.

TLDR - Hymn to Tourach gets boarded out in almost every single matchup. Why not just move it to the sideboard and play more relevant cards instead? Sideboard options aimed to be more streamlined against the 6 decks listed above.

Thank you very much for your comprehensive replies! This is exactly the kind of explanation I was hoping for.

I did some more testing and I feel definitely the urge to up the discard/wasteland package^^

I am not a huge fan of netdecking but especially when I start playing a new archetype, I tend to pick up a build with a certain idea behind it and tune it afterwards. Thus I will continue my testing with Lukas Blohon's build from GP Prague (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2016-06-12).

Coming back to the streaming question: Can you recommend anyone?

And finally: It seems that Jayce ran out of favor - is this due to the warping meta game?

Kind regards,

C

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Originally Posted by scry_me_a_river

Hey=)

I'm new at The Source and with Shardless BUG. So far I have only played Jund and Aggro Loam and I'm a big fan of grindy midrange decks with a serious value train. Thus I came across Shardless and so far I have been very pleased.

Nevertheless, I got some minor problems/questions which I couldn't solve/answer myself (this primer is really extensive and there are a lot of posts I still have to cover^^):

1) Are there any regular streamers with Shardless Aggro? I'm listening to numerous podcasts but I feel that some specific Shardless content would be helpful.

2) As a Jund player, I really appreciated the power of Wasteland, 1 cmc Discard and Hymn to Tourach. However, current lists don't seem to maximize these slots. Is it possible to play 4 Wasteland and 7-8 Discard Spells? (currently I am playing The Brainstorm Show's List which I really enjoy - however they are rather short on discard).

Any advice is very much appreciated=D

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Duress, Inquisition, and Thoughtseize are more sideboard cards than they are MD cards for Shardless in the current meta, largely because of Cascade. Hymn is so abstractly powerful and is extremely punishing in the early game that I think 3 is the right number. You're likely to Brainstorm a copy back late (since hitting land drops 4 and 5 is very important) or pitch it to Liliana, but the upside makes 3 worth it. Thoughtseize is better than the fourth Hymn for cost distribution reasons, but I don't think it's quite good enough to merit inclusion. I'm very much a supporter of four Wastelands, since it's one of the game's best 1-for-1 effects and lets you get utility as well as mana out of your lands. Sometimes you just suspend Vision, Wasteland an opponent a couple of times, draw three cards, and win the game.

I posted a list a few pages back, and while I've made a few changes, I'd be happy to sleeve that 75 up again. I'll post the update list a bit later.

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Originally Posted by scry_me_a_river

Thank you very much for your comprehensive replies! This is exactly the kind of explanation I was hoping for.

I did some more testing and I feel definitely the urge to up the discard/wasteland package^^

I am not a huge fan of netdecking but especially when I start playing a new archetype, I tend to pick up a build with a certain idea behind it and tune it afterwards. Thus I will continue my testing with Lukas Blohon's build from GP Prague (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2016-06-12).

Coming back to the streaming question: Can you recommend anyone?

And finally: It seems that Jayce ran out of favor - is this due to the warping meta game?

Kind regards,

C

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The big reason behind cutting Jace is that he's at his best against other long game decks and those decks all either have very good answers to him (Punishing Fire, Red blasts), are mana denial decks where getting to 2UU is challenging (D&T, Lands) and Jace isn't enough of a payoff, or are good matchups already and Jace is just more of what we're already doing, so he's cut for cards that aren't as strong in an absolute sense but are good enough in more contexts. He's at his best against Miracles and mostly-extinct Death/Stoneblade decks, and they're increasingly on the Red Blast plan against us (3 +Snaps is quite common at this point). Spending 4 mana at sorcery speed just isn't great when they can trade that far up on mana.

I like a lot of stuff in Blohon's list, though for the reasons above I don't run Thoughtseize main.

Sadly, there's very little in the way of Shardless-specific online content. Unlike Jund and Abzan in Modern, Shardless doesn't attract many pro players, and I think it has one of the lowest average player skill levels of any blue deck in Legacy, so amateur content is somewhat likely to be dodgy.

hi guys，
I feel Dead Weight is better than Disfigure.In most cases, we do not need cast Disfigure in opponent.When you want kill delver,dc,sfm or drs,Dead Weight as good as disfigure.Just Young Pyromancer and Vendilion Clique can create some problems.However,Dead Weight in some aspects better than Disfigure.First, it will make your tarmogoyf bigger.This will help you defeat some 5/5 or batterskull.
Second, and most important point!When you cast a shardless agent,they are completely different.For example，in sideboard and you face a rug delver.You and your opponent each control a tarmogoyf.You cast a shardless to find decay or another tarmogoyf.Unfortunately,shardless cast a disfigure.Or you don't control any creater,your opppnent control a batterskull,your shardless cast a disfigure.You cast 3mana juet get a 2/2!In sideboard,this often happen.in this situation,Dead Weight is much better than Disfigure.So I choose Dead weight in my sideboard.

welcome to discuss :laugh::laugh::laugh: