[Deck] Pox

Hey Guys,

when I started playing Magic there was a card I really loved POX. So I thought about building a deck with POX so I started looking around for a useful decklist which I like. So I found this:


Land (23)
20x Swamp
3x Wasteland

Fastmana
4x Dark Ritual

Disruption (28)
2x Innocent Blood
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Powder Keg
4x Smallpox
4x Pox
4x Contamination

Threats (9)
3x Nether Spirit
2x Tombstalker
4x Bitterblossom

Sideboard (15)

3x Spinning Darkness
2x Syphon Life
4x Duress
4x Engineered Plague
2x Innocent Blood


How it works:

Disruption and the hardlock with contamination and bitterblossom or nether spirit.

I haven´t tested the deck so long and I´m not sure that this deck will be more than a fun deck. But I think it has potential so maybe some of you guys may help me to make a playable list.

I can´t afford any duals atm (maybe I can take shockduals) so I would like to stay mono B

Hello, I am new to the forums here and I wanted to get some thoughts on my list and try to get/give some constructive input.

Methadron: I see you wanted some opinions on your list. I just want to say I like the list and I think it's a great build. My only thoughts would be the following:

1. A 3x Nether Spirit seems a bit much to me. I was wondering if you find yourself unable to bring them back by having multiples in the yard. It could be better as a one of. I know the tombstalkers help, but you might consider cutting a few for a few more slots. Also, an alternative would be [card]bloodghast[/card] if you want 3 recurring creatures.

2. I think the [card]thoughtseize[/card] + [card]bitterblossom[/card] combo can be rough in a deck without lifegain. Especially if you are playing against burn. Personally I have liked cursed scroll over bitterblossom in this type of deck, but it may be more of a preference.

3. [card]sinkhole[/card] is better than contamination for land destruction, but I know you said you cannot afford duals so sinkhole maybe out of budget which makes contamination more than fine in my opinion.

4. Liliana of the Veil is always an amazing card if you can get your hands on it.

I would suggest the following to start:

-1 swamp + 1 wasteland

-4 pox + 1 innocent blood MD + 3 cursed scroll

-2 thoughtseize + 2 inquision of Kozelek

-2 nether spirit -1 Bitterblossom + 3 creature removal (I prefer Vendetta or Ghastly Demise myself, but diabolic edict doesn't seem awful either).

Just things to think about. I by no means claim to have all the answers or be a world class player, but just am trying to help.

I was hoping to get some help on the version I'm working on for anyone with constructive criticism.


Lands - 23
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Cabal Pit
13 Swamps

Creatures - 2
2 Blooghast

Artifacts -4
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments 1
1 The Abyss

Planeswalkers -3
3 Liliana of the Veil

Sorceries/Instants - 27
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Innocent Blood
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Inquisition of Kozelek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Engineered Plague
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Bloodghast

It is really more of a lockdown than an aggressive list. I ran across Ensnaring Bridge (which is the most unusual card to include), and it has really helped against show and tell decks and goblins which are heavy in my meta. Any constructive criticism is welcome and thanks :D.

Hi!

You should start with getting the mana base right. Wasteland and mishras are not land but disruption and win conditions respectively.
The most important spells cost BB or more. You need a minimum of 22-23 swamps.

Right, I understand. I don't really want to play much more than 23 lands though without card draw. What would you think of -2 factories + 2 urborg and -1 inquisition +1 swamp. That gives me essentially 18 swamps with two being urborgs. The lists I've seen top the Star City tournaments at least have run 11 swamps+ 4 Urborg to allow more man lands. Plus do you give dark rituals any consideration? I feel like the major power play is turn 1 or 2 to try to get a lock.

I hate cutting the factories since it makes my win conditions low, but if you get them in liliana lock you should have a decent amount of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyCaves

Right, I understand. I don't really want to play much more than 23 lands though without card draw. What would you think of -2 factories + 2 urborg and -1 inquisition +1 swamp.

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Definately keep all the Factories. They are your best wincondition. Just straight up replace 3-4 Swamps by 3-4 Urborgs. Also, up your Liliana suit to 4 of her. Even though both cards are legendary, you need them every game, early, to get your game rolling. Sometimes you can discard multiples to Smallpox,though. And 2 Liliana on a hand isnt that bad as she is a great counter-bait and bolt-magnet.

Thanks for the input. I agree that 3 urborgs are needed. Also, I was hesisitant with the liliana, but the more I play the more right you are. Definitely have to get my hands on em.

So right now it's - 3 swamps +3 urborgs

I'm thinking also -2 blooghast +1 liliana and +1 nether spirit.

Problem with Urborg is that running so few swamp mean you rely too much on them. What happen if a smart player waste your Urborg? Then it's GG. You really need turn one and turn two SWAMP drops. Preferably also turn three.
Rituals are no substitute for lands. They are good, but actually in less than half your games there will be one in your starting hand.
Swamps seem like dead cards midgame, but that is a problem for most decks not running fetch and blue cantrips. You can play with ravens crime, syphon life and similar cards if you like, and play pox effects more aggressively with a higher land count.

If mishras is to be a win con then you need crucible of worlds.

My take on your deck would be something like this:

3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
20 Swamps

1 nether spirit

2 Cursed Scroll
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 crucible of worlds

4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Innocent Blood
3 cabal therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 entomb
2 ravens crime
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61


Entomb is expensive, but is good with crucible, cabal therapy, nether spirit, ravens crime, wasteland.
2-3 phyrexian arena for the card advantage would also be very nice.

Quote:

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Problem with Urborg is that running so few swamp mean you rely too much on them. What happen if a smart player waste your Urborg? Then it's GG.

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If your opponent is willing to sac lands against deck which runs 12+ LD's, then it indeed is GG. For you. There is no way Pox can run anything more than 15 swamps, and even that is serious overkill. 10 + 4 Urborg is pretty much the minimum, personally I run 12 black sources + 4 Urborgs.

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You really need turn one and turn two SWAMP drops. Preferably also turn three.

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This is simply untrue. Pox doesn't need three swamps ever, with the exception of builds that run more than 1 Pox. And still the cases are rare where 3 black sources are needed.

Quote:

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Swamps seem like dead cards midgame, but that is a problem for most decks not running fetch and blue cantrips.

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That is true, they are dead cards midgame. The biggest reason not to run them. If your gameplan is to get both into topdeck mode, and your deck sucks at topdecking, your gameplan actually isn't very good. Run fetches and Urborg to stabilize your mana with minimum land count.

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If mishras is to be a win con then you need crucible of worlds.

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I fail to see why. The main reason to run Crucible (which I do) is recurring wastelands, fetches, and possibly Cabal Pit.

I definitely agree with the last post. In fact I would recommend checking the results from the last scg open as there was a cool pox deck that placed 13. I don't know how I feel about all the card choices though.

This is my current list after some tweaks.

Lands 23
2 mishra's factory
2 cabal pit
4 wasteland
1 urborg
14 swamps

Enchantment
The Abysd

Artifacts 5
2 cursed scroll
3 ensnaring bridge

Planeswalkers 4
4 liliana of the veil

Sorceries/instants 27
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
3 innocent blood
4 dark ritual
4 inquisition of kozelek
2 thoughtseize
2 syphon life
4 hymn to tourach

Sb:
4 leyline of sanctity
3 engineered played
2 pithing needle
2 ratchet bomb
4 leyline of the void

Basically I've changed the kill condition to cursed scroll and syphon after getting a lock on creatures. Plus syphon life has helped with land top decks. I left 2 factories in for defense purposes and a back up plan. So far I have liked the bridges as it makes creature deck matchups better along with show and tell decks.

I plan on adding more urborgs when I can. No one in my play group has them and I'm too cheap to order them for local tournaments. I do agree with the previously suggested mana base though of 4 urborgs and 4 factories, so ill fix it before a major tournament.

The sb is a meta-choice for where I play. We have a lot if burn and combo so the leyline of sanctity seemed like an ok answer. If anyone has figured out other solutions for the burn match I'm open to suggestions.

I like the crucibles and will try them out too. I think entombs are unnecessary since you need cards that are more proactive. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyCaves

pox deck that placed 13

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The decklist in question: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=50533

I like the list, but i really prefer having a creature like Tombstalker to close out games quickly once they have an empty hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyCaves

Basically I've changed the kill condition to cursed scroll and syphon after getting a lock on creatures. Plus syphon life has helped with land top decks. I left 2 factories in for defense purposes and a back up plan. So far I have liked the bridges as it makes creature deck matchups better along with show and tell decks.

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I've been pondering if I should add one bridge as well as a one-off. It seems viable, but creature decks are of least concern anyway.

Quote:

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The sb is a meta-choice for where I play. We have a lot if burn and combo so the leyline of sanctity seemed like an ok answer. If anyone has figured out other solutions for the burn match I'm open to suggestions.

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Syphon Life should spell a disaster for burn, also Chalice of the Void with 1 is GG. CotV is also fairly decent against combo, since ie. Omni-Show plays anything from 14 to 18 1-mana cantrips. Personally I bring in 1 (more) Trinisphere, 1 (more) Nether Void, 2 Spinning Darkness (burn usually runs 4-8 guys) and a set of Duresses. If you can manage to Ritual a Trini on turn 1, game should be over, but manual on turn three should end the matters as well. Trinisphere is also great against combo, and something to slam on board from Show and Tell.

Quote:

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I like the crucibles and will try them out too. I think entombs are unnecessary since you need cards that are more proactive. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

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Entomb is a choice of play. If you want to play Pox as a toolbox (perhaps BG-Pox), it is obvious outlet to find all the necessary spells. For those more straight-forward builds, I don't see how it could fit in.

Just a hint for your SB. Infest is superior to Engineered Plague in pretty much every case. Merfolks and goblins don't care about one EP in table, but one infest usually sweeps the board. Against elves resolving either one gets the job done. Infest is also boardable against Maverick, Pikula, WW, most Zoo's, and the newly emerged Zombie Bombardment deck. Against the zombie deck EP is actually fairly good, but it can still win against just one on the table (its horrible MU for Pox btw). I used to run EP too, but switched to 3 Infests instead.

Thanks for the input. As far as entomb I do not see a toolbox reason for it. Just a few thoughts as a goblin player myself (sadly only got 20th on tiebreakers at scg Indy with goblins). It is by far Pox's worst matchup. The problems are that aether vial is incredible and that guys have haste. I thought about infest, but really being a sorcery is awful because of haste effects and massive card draw (matron and ringleader). Although if you stay in top-deck mode and land more than one bridge (most goblin decks only run 1 artifact kill), you can stabilize and kill with scroll / syphon. Out of the SB, Goblins cannot beat more than 1 engineered plague and 1 even kills over half the deck. Even R/g versions don't usually run a krosan grip (maybe 1 or 2), so it is unanswerable unlike infest that is recovered from by a ringleader. Believe me with just a few cards in hand goblins can do massive damage with haste, especially with vial out. I will give you infest with the merfolk matchup because of all the lords, but really 2 out of like 8-10 lords makes infest useless. I think for this our best bet for merfolk is to bring in ratchet bombs for 2 (for lords) and pithing needs to keep off of vials. With all the LD we can get there if we keep them away double U and mutavaults. As far as elves, I don't think it can really win with a turn 1 ritual+plague. It's not an uncommon thought that turn 1 darkblast kills elves, which means a permament one should be awsome.

As far as burn goes its just dreadful. I mean syphon life is good, but frankly burn wins the topdeck wars with just one land. The only two viable options I can see is trinisphere and leyline, and honestly leyline is good against other combo decks like high tide and belcher. It is by no means an auto win, but it may buy you the turn you need. I mean I played burn two rounds last tournament without leyline and got 2-0ed each time. You can get them to top deck with one land and you still take 3 every turn or so. IMO syphon life cannot keep up with that.

I am by no means trying to prove anyone wrong, but I just want to give food for thought and my line of logic. I appreciate the comments and look forward to more. I really think we can make this deck past a fringe deck very soon. It's definitely my favorite to play

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyCaves

Thanks for the input. As far as entomb I do not see a toolbox reason for it.

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I run 3 Entomb maindeck just for 3 targets: Nether Spirit, Darkblast, Bloodghast + Syphon Life in the board. It has been great. They give so much consistency against aggressive decks while also pushing your clock as you hav 5 virtual copies of Nether Spirit and Bloodghast against Control. The point 'The deck wins to slow' comes always up every two pages, because after you established, every topdecked card from the opponent can still ruin your day if you dont play real prison pieces like NetherVoid, and even under a Void one can still topdeck Counterbalance and just stick, so you should win fast at some point. We dont have the luxury as a black pondon to Entreat the Angels. Some prefer giant flyers like Tombstalker, I go for consistent Spirit and Ghasts the pokey way. I can see arguing for Bridge over Entomb, but both adress the same problem: swarm; with Bridge being more solid in that case but Entomb being more flexible, aggressive. I favor the last because 1. casting cost wise is the 3 mana spot already 'full' (I see you running DRits for that reason, which i dislike for other reasons), 2. an artifact is somewhat to handle for your opponent, every aggressive strategy devotes one or another spot in the board for hate vs permanent based hate like Bridge, Moat, etc., or has an alternative route like Siege Gang Commander, Tezzeret AoB, Bolts, ....

Don't get me wrong Jimmy, I really like your list as it looks now because you play 4 cards that wins under the bridge while keeping their alternative routes (Bolts) in check. Just wanted to mention that there are pro's for Entomb.

Went 3-0-1 yesterday with the following list:

Lands (25):
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
1x Cabal Pit
5x Swamp

Others (35):
1x Cursed Scroll
1x The Rack
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Trinisphere
2x Sensei's Divining Top

3x Liliana of the Veil

4x Smallpox
4x Dark Ritual
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Sinkhole
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Innocent Blood

1x Nether Void
1x The Abyss

1x Nether Spirit

SB:
1x Pithing Needle
1x Null Rod
1x Powder Keg
1x Trinisphere
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
2x Planar Void
2x Spinning Darkness
2x Infest
4x Duress

Round 1: RUG tres,hold (standard with 13 creatures)
Game 1 I drew little bit of everything, but despite hitting tarmo and mongoose with hymn, he plays 2 more mongoose and goyf each and 1 delver and I'm unable to find aswers. G2 I play quick trini assisted with wastelands and sinkholes and he is denied of spells. G3 I drew Keg and traded it for three 1 mana guys, after that it was uphill for him. I sided in 1 Keg and 1 Trini, out Nether Void and Nether Spirit. Games 2-1, Matches 1-0-0

Round 2: Maverick (seemed quite standard build)
He plays a quick knight along with multiple small guys and my edicts are of no use. I quickly lose despite drawing a very good starting hand. G2 he draws 3 mystics, but I manage to discard all equipments before he could play them, land abyss and beat with factories. G3 I open with inquisition and see a hand with 1 fetch, hierarch, 4x 2-mana guys and witness. I have 2 lands, ritual, abyss, and infest in hand. I eventually take out Thalia, hoping he over commits the board and I can sweep 1 to million trade with infest. I misplay by playing crucible on turn 4 despite having seen his pridemage, which he promptly plays and destroys my crucible. I then sweep the board, he plays something, I play abyss and he is virtually locked out of guys. I also play further trinisphere, night of soul's betrayal and liliana, but he finds a needle for liliana and wastelands my factories. I eventually draw scroll and get him to 3 when he finds oblivion ring. Time is called, and I can't find some combination of smallpoxes / factories to finish him off. I side in 2x infest, 1x notb, 1x keg, and 1x needle, out goes, 2x sinkhole, 3x innocent blood. Games 3-1-1, Matches 1-0-1

Round 3: Belcher (BG version)
He wins the roll, and plays nothing -> go. I assume he plays dredge, which renders my land 2x ritual, hymn, liliana hand virtually worthless. I play land and pass the turn. He plays petal and passes turn. Ok, he is not playing dredge. I proceed to ritual out liliana and hymn, revealing the now assumed belcher. I drew inquisition at some point along with 2 factories and rack which make for a quick game. G2 he gathers 10 goblins on turn 1 on the go. I play land and rack, go. He draws, beats and passes. I play land, ritual, night of soul's betrayal, following with next turn trinisphere and he scoops the game. I side out 3x i. blood, 4x sinkhole, 3x smallpox, 1x abyss, in comes 2x infest, 1x notb, 1x trini, 1x keg, 1x null rod, 1x pithing needle and 4x duress. Games 5-1-1, Matches 2-0-1

Round 4: UR Dreadstill (oldschool /w delvers)
Very nice matchup for me, despite him winning another pox last round. I win the dice, keeping rather nice hand. He mulligans to 6, I land early trini along with hard mana & card disruption and he concedes at 1 land, no hand and me with 2 factories ~5 mana. G2 we both mulligan, and I keep a speculative factory, inquisition, hymn, urborg, some 2 lands hand. Inquisition reveals that he also had suboptimal start, I take out his only brainstorm, leaving him with daze, delver, stifle effects and lands. I proceed to draw 3 factories and perfect answers to his plays and win easily. I side out 1x abyss, 3x i. blood, 1x nether void, in comes 4x duress, 1x powder keg. Games 7-1-1, Matches 3-0-1

I was pretty happy with the outcome, even though I should have won R2 MU against Mave. I begin to think Trini is actually better than Nether Void in pretty much every case, and I'm definitely not taking it off from main. We discussed about it after the tournament with few of my friends, and even though I've thought it was a bit of meta-choice, it actually supports Pox's game plan perfectly, whatever your meta is. Even without taking into account your LD effects, the decks are infested with 1-mana creatures, ponders, brainstorms, lightning bolts etc. cheap and versatile spells along with some alternate cost spells. Trini stops all that in their tracks, and paying U2 for ponder in RUG delver isn't very cost effective anymore. What it does for you? Well, it renders your rituals useless, which at 3 mana already are of very little use. It makes IB's harder to cast, and inquisitions which are at that point rather irrelevant harder to cast. Everything else costs 2 or more, so its not that much of a hinderance. Coupled with your LD plan and creature lands, it is pure gold.


EDIT: Why is both tres,h and tres,hold autofiltered to *****? o.O

New to the deck long time legacy player but after playing it for a couple of weeks at my local legacy weekly, have have been very impressed with my build but i am looking for something to deal with artifacts and planeswalkers, JACE, as I find pithing neddle not that great. I have thought about running green, I know that is another thread, but do not care for the mana base and like the straight up hand disruption. Any thoughts?

@madmen420
bloodghast/nether spirit and mishras give jace a hard time. You also should run liliana of the veil, since you actually have the time to use her ultimate and try to force your opponent to sacrifice him (if you separate the piles correctly).
However, in a deck that runs hand disruption and mana denial, something must have gone terribly wrong if your opponent is able to cast a 4 mana spell.

Ratchet Bomb deals with permanents that slide under the discard or mana disruption. The glaring weakness to it right now is that Abrupt Decay is everywhere so its not going to be able to get to high counter count often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyCaves

As far as burn goes its just dreadful. I mean syphon life is good, but frankly burn wins the topdeck wars with just one land. The only two viable options I can see is trinisphere and leyline, and honestly leyline is good against other combo decks like high tide and belcher. It is by no means an auto win, but it may buy you the turn you need. I mean I played burn two rounds last tournament without leyline and got 2-0ed each time. You can get them to top deck with one land and you still take 3 every turn or so. IMO syphon life cannot keep up with that.

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Thats odd as while I rarely 2-0 Burn, I usually end up beating it (Usually the Lavamancer version).
Now, I do admit that one of those match wins was where he got me to 1 life (he was at 20) and I managed to draw into 3 racks while he drew lands or drew a lava spike which caught a Funeral Charm.

So I guess I should have posted a list as well as my match ups along with the question that I have posted. Here we go

1 Nether Spirit
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nether Void
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sinkhole
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 hymm to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
13 Swamps

Sideboard
1 The Abyss
2 Pithing Needle
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
2 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
2 Duress
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Raven's Crime

So I seem to have no problem against any creature decks or Blue decks but enchantments and Jace is more of the problem. I know if I have the right draw they will lose as Jace will never see the table. But once Jace is landed there is no one way to deal with him if I dont have a man land or cursed scroll to negate the counters on jace. Any imput on the list as I am going to GP Denver and would really liket o run this there. My thoughts are that there are going to be a lot of esper and BUG at Denver and want to be able to deal with them. Esper seems good with the 1/1 tokens and Jace while BUG will have Abrupt Decay, Jace, and there own Liliana. I have not been that impressed with Night of Soul's Betrayal and the 2 Leyline of the voids in the Board. Would like to run one more Nether Void in the main but not sure what to cut. Any thoughts would be great. BtW Raven's Crime is great everytime I hit it.