Hey Einherjer, i like your list,too
but i got a question: in which matchUps do you board the third entreat? is it just to win in time if you loose the first game?
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Hey Einherjer, i like your list,too
but i got a question: in which matchUps do you board the third entreat? is it just to win in time if you loose the first game?
If you look into Oarsman's list (Joe), he's running 2 MD Entreat as well. According to him, you should board-in 3rd entreat for All non-combo match-ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by blablub
Which is complete nonsense. It's hard to believe Joe said this...Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
The 3rd Entreat is primarily there for Jund, Junk, Maverick, Death and Taxes, Goblins, Merfolk and Lands.
As you said correctly it is boarded in vs anything should I run low on time - but this hasn't happened to me since... many tournaments.
You could also consider boarding it in the Mirror, and you have to board it vs any deck that brings Vortex. But I prefer to not bring them preemtively - as Entreat is pretty bad against Tempo, but rather in G3. Other than that I don't board the 3rd Entreat. (But I am sure I forgot something.... ^^)
Greetings
I think a good general rule of thumb is to bring it in against fair (or slow combo) decks that don't have access to many taxing counters. GBx is a prime example, but so are the relatively slow decks like 12-Post and MUD that ride the border of what is a combo deck.
How do you fight liliana with the snap build?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
I've been successful boarding in the 3rd Entreat against any fair deck and any deck in which - as you said - time can be an issue; or I felt I needed an additional threat.
I've tried it against the mirror, with varying results; and the "Blade" decks. Interestingly enough, I always just wish it to be a Vendilion Clique instead.
Speaking or Oarsman [Joe], while I enjoy watching his stream and respect his opinions, a number of his choices seem odd to me. For example:
1. Is only 2 Swords to Plowshares enough?
2. Is the Venser worth it?
3. Misdirection seems loose. I have yet to encounter a situation in which I'd prefer to have had it over a Force of Will (very few Abrupt Decay decks locally, though that honestly just seems cute anyway).
4. I've really, really come to like the Ponder(s). Therefore, I've likewise come to really like having two Snapcaster Mages. I like the additional avenue for card advantage it provides.
Unrelated, should we consider a 4th Jace? I don't know about the rest of you, but I seems to win most games via Jace ultimate far more often than bashing with Entreat the Angels.
If having main-deck Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blasts is a thing, should we run a Mountain as well?
I can't speak for him, but I've felt fine with 2 STP. The lack of STPs is made up for by the high sweeper count, Red blast hitting blue creatures, jace's bounce, and venser's bounceQuote:
Originally Posted by DalamarTheDark
It's certainly a meta choice. If you don't have a lot of decay around, drop it. I've found it to be pretty useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by DalamarTheDark
[/quote]Quote:
Originally Posted by DalamarTheDark
I run 1 mountain so I can't get wasted off red.
Carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean
Liliana and Griselbrand are the two cards in the format you least want to see get onto the battlefield, and my experience with the deck is you're more likely to survive the Griselbrand, if given the choice.
If you can't keep Liliana off the table, you can try to kill it with damage; end-step a Clique to avoid her edict ability, or pop an Entreat if you happen to be floating one (though if she comes down turn two or turn three, that's usually not possible). Venser can bounce her and give you a second chance at countering when she tries to come back; ditto Unexpectedly Absent if you run it, and Detention Sphere reads "Exile Liliana until they draw an Abrupt Decay", which sometimes is enough.
Post-board you obviously want to try to Needle her if at all possible. Runed Halo is a thing some people try, but feels too cute.
Against BUG (I know there are Jund decks that run her as well, but they're actually much less worrying, and BUG is the more popular deck at the moment), I've found that the key is adopting as patient a play style as you can; you can survive the discard and kill their creatures before they kill you. But you cannot survive them getting a Liliana active, usually, so the game has to slow down and you have to play a game of answering their stuff a bit off-curve in order to keep up the ability to counter Liliana.
Liliana is bad compared to some things, but she's not that hard to win through. Search the thread for "Liliana" and there are a bunch of semi-recent posts about combating her.
Double Vendilion Clique, semi-early Entreats, and general good play see her off. You don't want her to Ultimate, but it's only the second or so time that it really hurts. If you can just force Countertop into their face when she's up they MUST force you to sacrifice your Balance with her Ultimate, so you can just push the game your way from their. Whilst she's going up just dig for a second so that when she Ultimates you can just flip and cast it all again the following turn.
So I have recently picked this deck up and I am contemplating it for the Open in Milwaukee in a few weeks... I have went through roughly the like 8 pages of this thread looking for some generic sideboard strategy information and I didn't find anything comprehensive. Has something like that been done "recently?" I realize there are a few different variants of this deck, but what I am looking for is something akin to card type x (lets say point removal) is poor against deck y so bring in card type z (say mass removal) from the sideboard.
Thanks for the info!!
Id suggest looking at the articles I wrote, should there still be any questions left just let me know! Just click at my signature.
Greetings
For my taste, Einherjer's miracles version is not sufficient prepared to win the "mirror" match. I absolutely don't like the idea of main deck Red Blasts, though. Any other ideas?
Thanks Einherjer!!! I will be sure to do that this week.
Playing 4 Counterbalances is a start. Engineered Explosives are also a good option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea
Most will say Oblivion Rings and Detention Spheres are an alternative, but I don't recommend them(clumsy, risky).
Take Ein's list, jam more Clique to it, and a venser if possible, you're ready to win the mirror match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea
Ein, I have read your articles but I'd like them to be deeper. I'd like to find info about how to sideboard and play against other decks like dredge, reanimator, goblins, lands, etc. You should consider updating the current primer for this deck.
Thanks for the article again and congrats on the finish!!! The writing was fairly enjoyable but left me wondering alot how you actually sided in specific matches. You didn't really mention at all cards that you were cutting.
At GP Paris, PV Damo da Rosa lost to Reanimator two matches in a row. One of the commentators also said he felt Reanimator is favoured against Miracle.
What's the boarding plan vs Reanimator?
It is definitely a favored matchup for miracles. I know I have never lost to reanimator with miracles and I think I play against it at last once at every local monthly 1k (played it twice this month). The matchup is basically sneak and show, but without the half for the combo that actually beats us (sneak attack and Emrakul) and instead using cards that lose to counterbalance, RIP and flusterstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kl'rt
I usually do something like:
-3 Entreats
-3 Terminus
-4 StpS
(with 2 snapcaster, 2 clique, 1 venser and 1 verdict MD still)
+3 RIP
+3 REB/pyroblast
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Meddling Mage (usually naming, reanimate, exhume, or show and tell, whichever our hand loses to the most)
Note that verdict would come out if I had more good cards to bring in, however verdict is the best bad card we have in the maindeck. At its very worst, it pitches to FoW, at best it is an uncounterable 2 for 1 after they reanimate a fatty. At my last tournament, G2 my opponent turn 2'd an inkwell leviathan on the play with FoW and Daze backup, and I found my 1 verdict, cast it on turn 4, just in time, and won the game eventually.
Also, note that if my deck was set up differently and I didn't have 7 creatures post board and 3 jaces, siding out all 3 entreats wouldn't be that great.
I usually just hold up countermagic and try to establish counterbalance and/or RIP while still having countermagic backup besides just 1 FoW, so this usually happens turn 3-4.
As a reanimator player I think that miracles is one of reanimator's worst matchups. In g1 reanimator has a little more chances, but in g2 and 3 miracles has all the cards to beat reanimator: swords, rip, countertop, flusterstorm, medling (for those who play it), karakas... you need to beat a wall of counters and, probably, use s&t (because of rip) to put into play a creature that will soon die to a swords or terminus or karakas.
The best creature to have in play is inkwell leviathan, which still dies to terminus, but it's a one of that you can't tutor for if rip is in play.
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
Miracles should definitely be heavily favored against Reanimator, but just like any explosive combo deck, Reanimator has plenty of potential to just get there before we have enough mana to stop them. I think that the current flavor of Reanimator decks running additional acceleration (Lotus Petal and even Show and Tell) are much better set up to beat us than the more disruption-heavy versions. Once we have enough mana to dig in then they are fighting a very uphill battle.
Hello,
I've been playing Miracles until the age of A.Decay, and now I was thinking in going back to playing it for a while and see at developed strategies vs A.Decay decks and the meta in general, I've been looking at the primer and the last few pages but they didnt revealed me anything or few so I would need for help about Guides - How to side as a start about this archetype of deck which seems the currently main core:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13178&iddeck=96709
I've seen the other archetype which is also fine, but I woud prefer to not to play ponder - portent in a control Shell.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13065&iddeck=95895
I would recomend to change the primer if possible as for example TES or BURG threads, which are constantly updated and this is not ages ago...
Back from GP Vienna, played horribly at both the Mainevent and the Legacy event, plus in the end I left early cause I felt sick. Nontheless the GP was great fun!
I did cut Karakas (22nd land) for a Ponder (3rd) one while switching a Flusterstorm in the Sideboard for a Vendilion Clique. I am pretty sure the Fluster-Clique change is correct. Not too sure on going on 21 land and 3 Ponder. What I gotta admit though is one thing:
I said Levys version is bad. As the time I spent working on this deck has trespassed millions of hours and events I have moved from 0 Ponder to 3 Ponder already. It is still very possible that I will add the 4th Ponder, should I find the slots to. So I was wrong on this aspect!
Just short because I am feeling pretty sick... The more comfortable you get with cantripping and Miracle as a whole Ponder becomes better and better. At least for me it feels like this card is just too good. 2 is just the bottom line, for sure.
On the primer.... I hesitated to write the primer twice because alphastryk said he is writing one. As I haven't received an article schedule from MTG Madness yet I am free for this week - if I feel good enough to write tomorrow I'll start doing my work. The plan is about 5k+ words as a minimum.
Greetings
Sorry for the delays on the primer, real life has kept me pretty busy lately. I'll plan to just publish what I have today or tomorrow and let someone else with more time take over.
Hello, I just have started playing the deck and are there some things I should be aware of before I take this deck to a tournament? Asides from playing a lot of games?
Get ready to draw a lot of matches if you are not fast taking decisions.
^^^ This so hard^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by cschacal
When you top, know what you're looking for. That'll save you a helluva lot of time.
I was talking to someone about this earlier today. A few things help, Topping quickly being one of the big ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by cschacal
Basically, in order to Top quickly you have to ask yourself this set of questions:
1. If I have Counterbalance or will soon be playing Counterbalance, what CMC(s) do I most want on top of my library?
Once you know this, every time you Top, you are simply evaluating the third card down and deciding if you'd rather draw it or if it should replace one of the two cards you are floating. Most of the time, you are simply putting a land or excess 1 CMC on top and then into your hand.
2. Is there any Miracle card that I'd like to draw, and if so, would I rather draw it during my draw step or during my opponent's turn?
If not then move it down (unless you'd rather draw it to preserve the CMCs on top). If so, then does it gain you anything by using the Miracle during your own turn? Most likely, you will be casting it during their turn, so you'd rather leave it second from the top.
3. Am I looking for something specific (a counter, a threat, or removal)?
4. Am I tapping out during my next turn or my opponent's next turn? If so, what card do I want to draw two turns from now?
Now all this might be easier said than done, but knowing the right questions to ask yourself should help keep you thinking about your own plays and responses while your opponent is busy durdling around. Other than Topping/Cantripping more efficiently, just performing your normal actions quickly will also help. Everything from fetching to tapping/untapping lands eats up slivers of time. Shortcut when you can and don't spend a decade thinking about what land you want (Hint: It's probably a Basic).
I do agree on Ponders being superb here, though I believe 2 is the correct number. What I especially like about them: 2-3 Ponders justify 3-ofs (e. g. STP).Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
I've been playing Preordains, and they're doing really well. They're better alongside any other Spell in your deck (ie Brainstorm and Top) and better in multiples. On their own they do see one less card if the top 3 are blank, but you have more versatility, as you don't have to shuffle, you get to keep one and ditch the other.
In a deck with 9-11 Fetchlands I think Ponder is much stronger. Ponder makes it easier, as mentioned above, to dig for your 2 and 3ofs, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
@21 Lands: Although I've thought of cutting the Karakas as well I can't see myself playing with one land less. Would be happy if you could share your insights after further testing!
Yep, sure. I'll do test the Canadian Threshold and the Death and Taxes - MU as much as I can, as those two are the ones where 21 lands should be the biggest downside. If I don't lose more games than normal due to land-screw I'll be def. bringing 21 lands to the Bazaar of Moxen. I know it will be hard to determine whether or not this match could have won with more lands, but I'll just play a non-altered Ponder in that slot, just to be sure. Maybe I'll even cut the MB Clique for the 4th Ponder.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerzab11
Well, anyways - testing will be delayed as I am feeling sicker and sicker right now - this means no primer from me too, I'll just let Alphastryk finish it, whenever he wants. On the upside though I am proud to announce that by the end of April two Articles about Miracles will be published on MTG Madness. Marc Vogt will write about the MUs and Sideboardingplans while I will be focusing on the process of building Miracles, and/or something else I am not sure about.
Greetings
I need some advice.
I think it's pretty obvious now that Miracles has become a fixture in most metagames, and it's fair to say that overall it is a bad matchup for Dredge. Now one of the main reasons is that even with the reduced number of MD RiP, Miracles still has 8 cards that effectively exile Dredge's creatures. Which makes it one of the very few decks that have a favorable Game One against Dredge. Fortunately, Miracles only brings 3-4 cards in from the SB, and those games are where I am looking for help.
One of the tenets of sideboarding for tournaments, is that you don't cut percentages in your favorable matchups to add to your unfavorable. That is, you don't take a 60% favor to 55%, to make a 40% into a 45% win. However, with the current uptick in Miracles presence, and it's difficulty, I'm willing to attempt it.
I have a SB that has cut some of the singletons, and shaved a few of the more generic cards, to increase my game against Miracles. However, the place it lacks now is against some of the Blue Tempo decks. Which traditionally have been quite favorable for Dredge.
My question is this; From the Miracles player's perspective, are you more concerned about a Dredge player blowing you out one turns one-two, or their having ways to shut down your engine and Hate? I can either run the SB with Needles for Top, and a robust removal package for RiP, that cuts down on stuff like Firestorm and some singletons to attempt to deal with Miracles directly, or I have a SB that still runs some anti-hate, and plenty for the Tempo matchup, that also can SB into the best turn one-two version I've ever made, for the Combo and non-Blue matchups. But does have the "lose to Force" vulnerability. Basically, I'm unsure if it's worth (slightly)nerfing my SB to attempt to attack Miracles on it's axis of attack against me, or just turn into Belcher against them, and hope to get there. Normally, agaisnt a clock so slow, I'd be fine doing so. Against decks like Ravitz's EsperBlade, it's always been fine. But in my experience against Miracles, 4 out of 5 games end up a blowout one way or the other(usually in Miracles favor), and what has happened it that post-board it's my hands that become too slow.
Just very short from me: The best way to beat Miracles with Dredge is to exlode into their head and hope they don't have the Terminus and do it before the RIP becomes online. You will not win the long fight, atleast if you plan to spend less than 15 cards on the MU :D
Greetings
You didn't mention you're on Manaless dredge or regular dredge. Those builds are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcher
MOD EDIT: His question was legitimate as he is trying to get some perspective from the other side of the matchup. In the future, please keep the snark to yourself and just address the question at hand - or ignore it if you don't feel it's appropriate. Thanks.
I recently started playing Miracles (Ein's list -Verdict, -Disenchant, +Moat, +Wear//Tear) and I'm having a blast so far, but my local meta is riddled with BUG decks (Shardless and Delver). Which build would you more experienced pilots recommend in a meta like this, and do you have any general tips in the matchup? I particularly struggle with a resolved Lily. My initial thoughts are to trade some number of FOWs for Misdirections to deal with Hymn and Decay, and to make room for Pithing Needles in the board...
First off, it's Parcher. He runs LED Dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Second, he mentioned Firestorm. I doubt Manaless would use that in the sideboard.
I definitely don't fear Needle on Top. Or Nature's Claim on Rest in Peace. It sucks to be the "Belcher" guy but Dredge's highest percentages have to be coming from the games where you just have it. Cabal Therapy is a better answer to RIP than Nature's Claim and I liked the Unmasks you ran at the GP a while back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcher
MOD EDIT: Counter-snark removed. Let's not get started with this.
As a miracles player against dredge, post-board literally all we care about is resolving Rest in Peace. Top is scarcely part of the engine in that matchup. We can find some way of killing you.
Put another way, I am not concerned with Dredge being a better control deck.
You refer to miracles with MD RiP, but I considered Dredge to be one of Miracles' best matchups before RiP had even been printed, and we were just using Relics out of the board.
I guess I'm rambling. To answer you question directly, the longer the game goes, the less concerned I am. "Therapy on Rest in Peace, try to combo" seems like a stronger plan than "Pithing Needle on SDT."