[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

- I absolutely think if you are playing a nic fit deck you need multiple top/library effects. Ptruths also helps in the CA role but having cheap early filtering is very important. The deck loses when you draw the wrong half of the deck just like most non cantrip decks. Diabolic intent does not count. That card is another in a long list of nic fit cards that is good when things are going well and tough to use when not. Great for tutoring against combo decks though.

- Cards like Nissa or Courser are just not good enough. They have these cute interactions that seem great and then I am sure most ppl just deal with it or ignore it and kill you.

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I'm not sure about Nissa, still haven't tried it but Courser is definitely good. The card advantage train is real with Library/Top, and the lifegain/blocking beats pretty much every fair deck in the format. Courser translates into drawing 2 cards a turn, every turn and gaining about 1.5 life per turn.

I'm less happy with truths, I just don't see why I need it when I have a Courser going. Mine gets used less for advantage and more for clearing Top.

Where Courser is weak is against decks like S&T, Reanimator, and so on but those aren't the decks we're trying to beat in the first place. The card is pure value.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

The new X2GU clone might be interesting as well, since it's a GSZ target.

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It's an interesting thought for BUG but I think Meren is the better 4 to GSZ in the vast majority of circumstances. The card we would most want to copy is Siege Rhino which is out of color. I do find it interesting in Pod though, pod a Finks into this and get another Finks, Pod that into a 4 drop, and persist this into something else. In that sense it's better than Metamorph since it's green.

Hey,

Is the Scapeshift variant of Nic Fit still any good? I'm a modern transient, and my deck there was Rug->Btl scapeshift, so it would be nice to know if I could still use some of the cards from that for this deck.
Also, is the nic-shift variant similar in playstyle and objectives to RG titanshift, or is it more like an "oops I win" combo in a nic fit shell a la twin or Depths Maverick?
I assume Btl also wouldn't be very good, Burning Wish seems like it would be better in most situations because it doesn't require as much color diversity and another space in your deck for the card you want to tutor that wouldn't contribute to the creature-based strategy. Of course, this is all just speculation without any experience, so is this true?

Thanks for reading.

@Rubblekill- You are right in that planeswalkers for non punishing fire versions are a big problem. Both Liliana and Jace apply pressure that deed and creatures cannot always fight. Thanks for the support of Decay! haha

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Originally Posted by Brael

I'm not sure about Nissa, still haven't tried it but Courser is definitely good. The card advantage train is real with Library/Top, and the lifegain/blocking beats pretty much every fair deck in the format. Courser translates into drawing 2 cards a turn, every turn and gaining about 1.5 life per turn.

I'm less happy with truths, I just don't see why I need it when I have a Courser going. Mine gets used less for advantage and more for clearing Top.

Where Courser is weak is against decks like S&T, Reanimator, and so on but those aren't the decks we're trying to beat in the first place. The card is pure value.

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-Nissa is not a legacy relevant spell. Thats for sure. I dont care if you play gsz. That effect too small and if you have enough lands to flip her then you should be able to do something a lot more powerful than nissa.
- Courser CA is not worth playing a subpar card. The CA you are talking about is Courser with another card to be able to dig 1 deeper. The life is such a tiny effect I do not consider that to matter in the discussion. The fact that courser cant block delver, goyf, bskull, angler means that it cant even stonewall the main beaters that most aggro decks play.
-Ptruths vs Courser is not even close. I am a believer in ptruths as a card but even if you are not as high on it as me the comparison will still favor the immediate draw 3. It doesnt require multiple turns, doesnt need another card to really function. It lets you play it and untap with the cards or with enough mana play right away. Truths also cant be hit by decay, stp or any other removal spell that again, get stuck in your hand playing against a control deck.
- I dont believe that Nic fit has to have a bad matchup with S&T or reanimator so I guess we agree to disagree on that.

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Originally Posted by Zaxcord

Hey,

Is the Scapeshift variant of Nic Fit still any good? I'm a modern transient, and my deck there was Rug->Btl scapeshift, so it would be nice to know if I could still use some of the cards from that for this deck.
Also, is the nic-shift variant similar in playstyle and objectives to RG titanshift, or is it more like an "oops I win" combo in a nic fit shell a la twin or Depths Maverick?
I assume Btl also wouldn't be very good, Burning Wish seems like it would be better in most situations because it doesn't require as much color diversity and another space in your deck for the card you want to tutor that wouldn't contribute to the creature-based strategy. Of course, this is all just speculation without any experience, so is this true?

Thanks for reading.

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Ive never played the modern scapeshift decks before so i cant talk about their similarities, but i play scapewish pretty exclusively at high level tournaments with good success
The version i play is like a tap out control deck where you just try to grind your opponent out of resources. once your both in top deck mode all your draws are just bigger
you can close out games with your creatures, huntmaster is insane, but more often than not you stall them out to a point where you can scapeshift for the kill.
this is the list im running now, been running about this list minimal changes for 3ish years now

Creatures (16)

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Huntmaster of The Fells
2 Thragtusk
2 Woodelves
2 Sakura-Tribe Elders
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan

Spells (21)

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (24)

2 Valakut
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Stomping Grounds

Sideboard:
2 Carpet of flowers
2 REB
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughtergames
1 Innocent Blood
1 Pyroclasm
2 Thoughtsieze
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse

lmk if you have anymore questions about the deck

Who the hell is knocking Courser and Nissa? You need some amount of utility cards...it can't all be bombs. Good luck ramping/curving. By the same token, the ramp is what makes Sakura (thanks Kev) and co. good in Nic Fit. Courser is probably the best 3cc ramp the deck could have --- considering he gives you perpetual library depth and is synergistic with top/fetchlands/shuffles/GSZ.

nissa is honestly better post board in matchups where you have to side out some number of explorers at worst she replaces herself with a forest at best she draws a card every turn. you can't ask for much more from a three drop in blue control matchups. as far as snt and big fatty matches go ensnaring bridge helps solve much of the dilemma. its commonly looked at as a major nobo but in actual practical application it works. this thread in general spends entirely too much time in magical christmas land casting cards and making changes specifically for the sake of actually getting too not because they improve any actual bad matchups. you can only jerk off on delver.deck so many time before you realize that matchup is solved by your md and if you're having trouble its your play style and thought process not the card selection. if you bring this deck to any sort of irl tournament you want to have your board tuned to either beat storm/jace or big fatty.dec you cant beat both but you can beat one group or the other. i cant speak for the online meta because its skewed by an entirely different set of budget decks and availability concerns.

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Originally Posted by Warden

Who the hell is knocking Courser and Nissa? You need some amount of utility cards...it can't all be bombs. Good luck ramping/curving. By the same token, the ramp is what makes Sakura (thanks Kev) and co. good in Nic Fit. Courser is probably the best 3cc ramp the deck could have --- considering he gives you perpetual library depth and is synergistic with top/fetchlands/shuffles/GSZ.

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Me! Courser doesn't 180^ the board like rhino and sigarda do, and I don't fancy wasting a gsz for him. His Life gain is irrelevant, for 3 mana it dies to too many things without being able to block.

Nissa. I have tried her because her flip side is nice and needed against slower decks but: against bug decks dies to decay (an otherwise dead card vs us) so she can't be a wincon; is a dead card if in the opener; ramp ability has always been irrelevant (4vet 2towers and drs is enough. Sigarda is my highest cmc card), and too many times, especially against miracles (the deck against which we want nissa the most), the opponent had removal and/or Karakas (a land that can render nissa useless) to negate the flip.

I have never played sakura and co in junk because they are weak sauce. Its not hard to hit 4 mana for rhino. Miracles doesn't need ramp to reach 4 mana to play jtms, and for us it's the same. Only that rhino is better.

I have been playing my latest list for a while and it's been the most consistent I have ever played. Rhino deeds and decays, no unnecessary weak cards, only the most powerful cards; I think the 76 is very streamlined, I will post it later.

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

Me! Courser doesn't 180^ the board like rhino and sigarda do, and I don't fancy wasting a gsz for him. His Life gain is irrelevant, for 3 mana it dies to too many things without being able to block.

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Everything you play for 3 mana or less dies to pretty much everything, so how is that an argument? Following your logic we should just skip on the DRS and Scooze too.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Everything you play for 3 mana or less dies to pretty much everything, so how is that an argument? Following your logic we should just skip on the DRS and Scooze too.

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Infact drs is an utility one of only to fight reanimator. And for me Ooze gets infact sided out a fair amount, for me it stays in the deck because of delver and gy strategies. Sometimes we don't have mana to gsz a rhino against mana denial - delver, and ooze CAN 180 a board: this very fact means that ooze belongs in the deck, and in every gsz deck ever imo. It can't be said enough how irrelevant of a card is courser most of the time: the only bad card i am willing to have in the opener is dryad arbor, but this sacrifice gives a lot of benefits that can be game changing, as i said in the post above.

Tldr: a gsz for drs or ooze will be game changing and a life saver. 4 mana for a card that's useless for at least 2 turns is a waste of one of the best card in the deck (gsz).

I have never sideboarded ooze out in a single matchup I already don't trust where this is going...

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

I have never sideboarded ooze out in a single matchup I already don't trust where this is going...

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That's fair enough! Against shardless and miracles I do replace it with Elspeth. I am aware that it is a debatable choice but I have never regretted it so far.

Ooze is weird: sometimes I want to consider it as a sb card, then I draw it and remember why it is in the deck even if it's a 2 cmc guy.

care to share your full list plus sideboard plan for what you're leaving in vs shardless and miracles over the ooze? i usually go:

miracles
-3 path -3 vet -3 therapy -1 nightmare
+2 ts +1 grip +1 garruk +1 teeg +1 needle +1 g charm +1 plague +2 surgical

shardless
-3 path -2 therapy
+1 garruk +2 ts +1 teeg +1 needle

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

care to share your full list plus sideboard plan for what you're leaving in vs shardless and miracles over the ooze? i usually go:

miracles
-3 path -3 vet -3 therapy -1 nightmare
+2 ts +1 grip +1 garruk +1 teeg +1 needle +1 g charm +1 plague +2 surgical

shardless
-3 path -2 therapy
+1 garruk +2 ts +1 teeg +1 needle

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I will do it when I will be home, now im on mobile

stupid time zones its 4 am where I am i'd assume everyone is home by now... its also worth noting that the european meta is about as different as modo vs irl. so what works in the pacific northeast may not work as well over sea's. where I live storm lands and snt are my boogymen im gaurenteed to see two of them in any size event with storm being the easiest of the three honestly.

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

That's fair enough! Against shardless and miracles I do replace it with Elspeth. I am aware that it is a debatable choice but I have never regretted it so far.

Ooze is weird: sometimes I want to consider it as a sb card, then I draw it and remember why it is in the deck even if it's a 2 cmc guy.

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Keep it in vs. Shardless. It can absolutely manhandle Goyf or forces them to AD it. It also fucks over DRS pretty hard, so that's nice. It singlehandedly takes care of 8 of their creatures.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Keep it in vs. Shardless. It can absolutely manhandle Goyf or forces them to AD it. It also fucks over DRS pretty hard, so that's nice. It singlehandedly takes care of 8 of their creatures.

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I know but since deed here is the key of the match up I don't wanna blow my ooze together with their goyfs. Even against bug decks we should play ooze in the mid-late game, better after the board wipe, but again, most of the time he is gonna gain life in response to their decay.. I want AD to be our best card, which it already is, and their worst card at the same time.

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

I know but since deed here is the key of the match up I don't wanna blow my ooze together with their goyfs. Even against bug decks we should play ooze in the mid-late game, better after the board wipe, but again, most of the time he is gonna gain life in response to their decay.. I want AD to be our best card, which it already is, and their worst card at the same time.

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Yeah... Deed isn't for everyone.

If it so happens that you have Scooze & Deed out, you just ride your Scooze as long as you can and don't blow Deed unless you have to. Deed is best used as a threat, not as actual removal. You know, just keep hovering your hand over that self destruct button while you tell your opponent "Come at me, bro. I dare you!".

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Yeah... Deed isn't for everyone.

If it so happens that you have Scooze & Deed out, you just ride your Scooze as long as you can and don't blow Deed unless you have to. Deed is best used as a threat, not as actual removal. You know, just keep hovering your hand over that self destruct button while you tell your opponent "Come at me, bro. I dare you!".

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But in this way we turn on their decay, and we must keep mana up all the Time to threaten the board wipe.. I don't like that to be honest..

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

But in this way we turn on their decay, and we must keep mana up all the Time to threaten the board wipe.. I don't like that to be honest..

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We turn on their Decay by having anything < 4 CMC on the board. And you do like using Pernicious Deed as 5 mana removal..?

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Originally Posted by Echelon

We turn on their Decay by having anything < 4 CMC on the board. And you do like using Pernicious Deed as 5 mana removal..?

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Yes I do against AD, if I can. I have no creature outside ooze and Drs that dies to deed or ad (I have witnessed but come on her role here is not to be a vanilla 2/1).
Against miracles eldrazi etc I just play it and use it as a life insurance.

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

Yes I do against AD, if I can. I have no creature outside ooze and Drs that dies to deed or ad (I have witnessed but come on her role here is not to be a vanilla 2/1).
Against miracles eldrazi etc I just play it and use it as a life insurance.

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I'm starting to zero in on why you have so much trouble with certain MUs.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

I'm starting to zero in on why you have so much trouble with certain MUs.

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Getting the deed decayed is a feelsbad moment in my opinion. And you are forming a bad idea, I don't love the shard less mu not because of goyfs but because of the pw, which deed doesn't kill any ways. There's no connection between the two topic as you are implying.
Having 5-6 mana to wipe their board (in the shard less mu) as soon as deed hits the battlefield is usually not a problem, considering my first objective is to land and trigger an explorer in that matchup. Don't forget that deed is (for me) a one sided wrath: I can land a rhino the turn before and then wrath them and attack with rhino the following turn. This very line has won me the game countless times in that matchup. When I lose against them is only because of an unanswered jace or liliana.

Consider me a honey badger.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Consider me a honey badger.

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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...540fe8fc8e.jpg

This whole conversation is absurd. You compare scooze to courser. That is not even remotely the same. 1 is used mainly as a md hate card that can be a late game big beater. That is different than courser which is STRICTLY a slow CA card. If you like playing with courser then do it but the deck is worse off for being filled with cards like that.

I also dont like playing Drs in the deck either. If ppl want to play 1 as a target for certain matchups fine but I still do not think that it needs to be played.

Anyway, play whatever cards you want. I am sure I will continue to see reports of "this one time courser and top just drew me so many cards" when in reality actual legacy cards would have done the same thing and been better more of the time.

Honestly what would be the most helpful for this thread is to stop saying the skill level of the deck is so high (its not) and to start looking at what cards actually mattered in the wins vs losses. Take delver, we have vet and deed for that matchup. You dont need anything else besides decays and gsz to accomplish that plan.

So I would challenge this thread. For the next few tournament reports. Lets break down why the deck lost. Mana screw happens, flooding happens, and turn 1 storm kills happen. BUT honest evaluation would help.

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

So I would challenge this thread. For the next few tournament reports. Lets break down why the deck lost. Mana screw happens, flooding happens, and turn 1 storm kills happen. BUT honest evaluation would help.

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Also, other should feel free to chime in. It's easier to spot anothers' mistakes than it is to spot your own.

I'm attending a monthly on april 16th. I volunteer as tribute!

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

This whole conversation is absurd. You compare scooze to courser. That is not even remotely the same. 1 is used mainly as a md hate card that can be a late game big beater. That is different than courser which is STRICTLY a slow CA card. If you like playing with courser then do it but the deck is worse off for being filled with cards like that.

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This whole conversation started because of this comment

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Everything you play for 3 mana or less dies to pretty much everything, so how is that an argument? Following your logic we should just skip on the DRS and Scooze too.

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And to that I have replied that

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A gsz for drs or ooze will be game changing and a life saver. 4 mana for a card that's useless for at least 2 turns is a waste of one of the best card in the deck (gsz).

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So the comparing part was justified by Echelon's post, nobody here thinks that Ooze or Courser are cards that are fighting to fill the same spot in the deck.

And I think that the skill level of this deck is indeed high because it requires to know how to sequence our threats and how to play cabal therapy very well: that's one of the most skill-testing card ever printed in my opinion, and this deck revolves basically around it.

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

So I would challenge this thread. For the next few tournament reports. Lets break down why the deck lost. Mana screw happens, flooding happens, and turn 1 storm kills happen. BUT honest evaluation would help.

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Basically, this is what I am saying for AGES...

+1.

Im gone, asleep, and this place devolves into a petty dispute? C'mon ladies and gentlemen. We are the greatest thread for a reason.

Nic fit is a deck that allows for creativity and imagination. A discussion is fine but don't let it devolve into a debate over who is wrong and why they are.

Each player is going to play the way they feel is best for them and they playstyle and the same is true about how they construct their list.

I don't fault other pilots for playing less removal or jamming bigger pet threats. I hope they do well and show me they were right so I can try new things that aren't anal.

I started a league last night with Rhino fit and beat DnT 2-0. I won game 1 handly and then g2 I should not have won but my opponent was very inexperienced with the deck and I was able to capitalize on that. I am hoping to rattle off another 5-0 to keep nic fit up there so we can continue to get more minds working on what ive come to find is one of the most entertaining and manipulatible archetypes.

Cheers!

I'm currently 25-15 in League matches, 58/39 in games, with my SFM build and have been taken notes on all my matches. I can honestly say that a lot of my losses come from misplays and mistakes in the MTGO client (surgical extraction is really hard to resolve, and I have a habit of clicking the wrong basics with Vet explorer and not realising..)

I'm also not a fan of courser or nissa. I always run scooze, deathrite shaman usually gets a slot and I nearly always play maindeck teeg.

I'm still struggling against miracles, 3-8 in games (hexproof creature + equipment usually getting me the wins), 0-4 in matches. I haven't tried adding the fourth colour for Slaughter games yet, but I'm gradually running out of options (Abeyance, is my last hope I think)

I'm 4-6 against Elves in games, 1-3 in matches. Lost my 5th match at 4-0 one time to it. Their two different angles of attack, and ability to reload after a sweeper with glimpse or just NO with a few creatures make it rough in my experience.

I'm 6-5 in games against Shardless, 3-2 in matches. Here Deed and Meren are usually the MVPs

I'm 50/50 against most combo decks, Reanimator: 5-5, 2-2, Sneak and Show 3-3, 1-1, Storm 5-3, 2-1, Belcher 1-2, 0-1.
My game plan here is heavy T1 discard (4 therapy and 3TS) coupled with teeg and surgical extractions

And I'm favoured against Delver decks and other random creature decks. Which isnt suprising. I've settled on 3 path (the number of wins I've had because this wasn't stp is significant) 3 decay and 3 deed as my removal suite. I've found having a maindeck 3 cmc removal spell just because some decks play some Jace isn't an effecient use of a slot. But I'm open to being wrong.

What's suprising is being 50/50 against combo, (I guess my plan is working considering they are strongest G1), losing to elves and being crushed by miracles haha. I definitely had higher percentages agains them in paper magic in Japan, but that might have been before Mentor... Also online Miracles players might just be better.

So now i'm trying a build without SFM to see if I can still keep my wins against the midrange and creature decks (where the equipment often shuts the door quickly) while adding some more maindeck discard (to keep my curve low and interactive against combo and miracles) leaving some slots in the sideboard for some cheaper sweepers against elves and more haymakers for miracles.

Probably post another update in another month.

I wouldn't call it a "petty dispute", but an occasion to discuss our own play styles. You all should've commented too on the topic to express your opinion. I don't really get hurt if you have a different opinion, heck I am waiting to be proved wrong to improve myself. That's what it matters to me. I am used to some of Echelon's provocative answers, but I think both of us were discussing normally today? I know I was.

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

This whole conversation is absurd. You compare scooze to courser. That is not even remotely the same. 1 is used mainly as a md hate card that can be a late game big beater. That is different than courser which is STRICTLY a slow CA card. If you like playing with courser then do it but the deck is worse off for being filled with cards like that.

I also dont like playing Drs in the deck either. If ppl want to play 1 as a target for certain matchups fine but I still do not think that it needs to be played.

..

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Hey,

I play both Courser and DRS, both as a singleton. I wouldn't remove the 1 of DRS, he just covers too many roles to not have a singleton copy in the MD. Courser on the other hand is debatable. I find him the weakest link in my list, but calling him garbage is a bit too much. He is there because he covers a very specific role - low mana card advantage engine which helps you get to late game (mostly when triggering explorers is not an option and/or you need a blocker vs bolt decks). The key point here is that he is a low CMC green creature. If you know any other creature which covers the role better then please let us know.

Like you said, Scooze shines late game when you have plenty of mana to work with - tapping out to play a Scooze is always a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

Im gone, asleep, and this place devolves into a petty dispute? C'mon ladies and gentlemen. We are the greatest thread for a reason.

Nic fit is a deck that allows for creativity and imagination. A discussion is fine but don't let it devolve into a debate over who is wrong and why they are.

Each player is going to play the way they feel is best for them and they playstyle and the same is true about how they construct their list.

I don't fault other pilots for playing less removal or jamming bigger pet threats. I hope they do well and show me they were right so I can try new things that aren't anal.

I started a league last night with Rhino fit and beat DnT 2-0. I won game 1 handly and then g2 I should not have won but my opponent was very inexperienced with the deck and I was able to capitalize on that. I am hoping to rattle off another 5-0 to keep nic fit up there so we can continue to get more minds working on what ive come to find is one of the most entertaining and manipulatible archetypes.

Cheers!

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Im gonna back this up.

The tension/atmosphere that currently exists is not what should be.

That said, Some tournament based report evaluation on the other hand is a good idea. Reflecting individual card perfomance to find out how they stand in the current state of the archetype. NicFit will always be a deck that could fit thousand cards, but perhaps some more details on each induvidual card would be nice to have. The thread does tend to circle around, the same questions, discussions and whatnot. We should either accept it or deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Im gonna back this up.

The tension/atmosphere that currently exists is not what should be.

That said, Some tournament based report evaluation on the other hand is a good idea. Reflecting individual card perfomance to find out how they stand in the current state of the archetype. NicFit will always be a deck that could fit thousand cards, but perhaps some more details on each induvidual card would be nice to have. The thread does tend to circle around, the same questions, discussions and whatnot. We should either accept it or deal with it.

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Meh. I think you and Ricardio are exaggerating a little bit, read my last post above! We were discussing how to deed basing our logic on our real experience, you could/can express your thinking on that topic too!

@rubberkill: No exaggerated. Just stopping and pre-emptive anger. We want good vibes and vet triggers, no sadness.

In my experience:

SFM: Not my style for nic fit. I've tried it and been overwhelmingly disappointed by this artificer and her group of friends. #decktiledisfunction

Scooz: he is in my 75 forever #bae4life

Courser: Not very impressive, just a worse oracle imho. You only really want oracle in a deck like 8 post fit where playing 2 post in a turn is insane.

DRS: I cant stress enough what he is capable of. I play two because it feels about right. sometimes gsz = 1 is not vet but drs. having mb gy hate and a means to close out a game without attacking accompanied by rhino triggers makes life easier. Not to mention when they bring in needle and disfigure to deal with him. #narrowscardscantmeltnarrowbeams

Get em frog: He seems great and I anticipate he will fit some niche in legacy but I am not aware what he does for us. Seeing as a warped list would use him well, I cant tell if he is worth the 5 cmc investment. I will say he is interesting and I am excited for the potential he has. #brewongentlemen

Sorin, 6 cmc, no ult: His +1 is monsterous! His second ability kills jtms(see anal pain). His ult seems like I'd rather continue plussing him. I am exuberantly excited to test this sob. Hopefully he is what I wanted and more #squadgoals

I looked through most of the spoilers and was unimpressed albeit flavor wise, this set is a wet dream. #changingmypants

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

@rubberkill: No exaggerated. Just stopping and pre-emptive anger. We want good vibes and vet triggers, no sadness.

In my experience:

SFM: Not my style for nic fit. I've tried it and been overwhelmingly disappointed by this artificer and her group of friends. #decktiledisfunction

Scooz: he is in my 75 forever #bae4life

Courser: Not very impressive, just a worse oracle imho. You only really want oracle in a deck like 8 post fit where playing 2 post in a turn is insane.

DRS: I cant stress enough what he is capable of. I play two because it feels about right. sometimes gsz = 1 is not vet but drs. having mb gy hate and a means to close out a game without attacking accompanied by rhino triggers makes life easier. Not to mention when they bring in needle and disfigure to deal with him. #narrowscardscantmeltnarrowbeams

Get em frog: He seems great and I anticipate he will fit some niche in legacy but I am not aware what he does for us. Seeing as a warped list would use him well, I cant tell if he is worth the 5 cmc investment. I will say he is interesting and I am excited for the potential he has. #brewongentlemen

Sorin, 6 cmc, no ult: His +1 is monsterous! His second ability kills jtms(see anal pain). His ult seems like I'd rather continue plussing him. I am exuberantly excited to test this sob. Hopefully he is what I wanted and more #squadgoals

I looked through most of the spoilers and was unimpressed albeit flavor wise, this set is a wet dream. #changingmypants

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Ill be making a long post later today, but now Im driving for the day off. Ill post pics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Ill be making a long post later today, but now Im driving for the day off. Ill post pics.

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OH LORD! Pictures! I am excite.

Don't make a big thing about "atmosphere" in an internet thread where most/all of connotation is lost. I for one think that people in this thread could use a bit of "harsh" reality about certain card choices. There is a difference between debating legit choices and just playing subpar cards.

- Discussing whether to play 0-1-2 Drs for example is fine. All of these are options that work within the deck and legacy in general.
- Discussing whether to play a 3 drop that has no value the turn it comes into play, takes multiple turns to do anything and even then needs additional help well it sits doing squat is just a symptom of Nic fit players thinking anything under the sun can be done just because we play vet.

Look, I love this deck. That doesnt mean I am not going to point out what I believe to be subpar choices. I doubt that my rational will change any minds but I do hope that breaking down games will show what cards are worth playing. I bet things like abzan charm, nissa, courser and the like will be shown to not be great.

I don't post on here as much as I should for junk fit being my main deck at the moment, but I've taken it to card kingdom's weekly legacy for at least the past month and I played my first round last week on stream against eldrazi stompy and it def feels good having those big bodies in your deck to deal with these guys and also side boarded in glissa but never saw her. Best play of the game even though I lost during game two was blind therapy in him naming reality smasher a few turns into the game when I had nothing else to play, since that's their biggest creature I think and he only had like four cards in hand. And he already had one in play. I feel like this deck is in a good spot right now. Lots of matchups I haven't got to play yet but I'll start trying to do some tournament reports since I go to 25+ attendance weekly legacy

I'm not sure I'm bringing much comments of value here but I feel like joining in and ventilating my thoughts. Also excuse me for my printing errors, this was tapped on a cell phone (celebrating the start of this Easter holiday in front of a warming fireplace).

@Courser:
I'm divided on this. When it works it's great, simultaneously letting you pull ahead of the opponent by continous landdrops and drawing relevant cards, seeing more cards too with an active top than you otherwise would. Life gain is a bonus and the body is relevant in some matchups (vs pyromancer, goblins, thalia..) but that's only side effects. In other words, when it's good it's a better Dark Confidant. Some of the most frustrating losses to me are the grindy games vs decks (usually blue) where the game state is even (=to your advantage) and you don't draw top or just see lands/discard for 3-4 turns and lose. Courser helps mitigate that risk, costing 1 slot only. Another situation where Courser shines: say you have to mulligan and start with 2-3 lands, maybe a top, a GSZ and a removal spell or similar. In these situations I want Courser since he allows me to regain the lost cards while also ensuring I draw some relevant spells. While also presenting a solid blocker and life gain to help you survive until you've gained the time you need to establish a favourable board position. What other single, GSZ-able card allows this and for 3 CMC? Of course he can be killed, but in above scenario you don't want to have to pay an extra mana (out of Decay range) since the major reason you need him is you're short on resources. He's not boltable, and for a Dark Confidant that's already pretty good.

When Courser is not good.. Is basically the same scenarios as above, but you don't see lands on top of your deck for several rounds. The disadvantage of a life gaining Confidant, it sometimes bricks.

I keep bringing him into and out of my lists, depending on how often I get disappointed and the list's mana curve.

@Miracles/Stoneforge: I also fight with this matchup (Miracles). I think I tend to make some mistakes which may cost me the game loss. Also I feel like my opponents tend to have some luck. I currently maindeck 1 SG and sideboard 2 SG's and 1 Tsunami; a while ago I tried 3 Tsunami and 2 SG's (Junk Rhino fit with 2 Baneslayers). I never draw it, or they FoW it, or I Slaughter Jace and they draw Entreat immediately, or I don't find top and draw all removal while dying to Jace. What I wanted to add is that when I was playing Stoneforge Mystics and Batterskull 1-2.5 years ago Batterskull usually kept good pressure on them. Perhaps it's time for me to try putting a Stoneforge and a BSK into a Rhino list. Problem is the Baneslayers have felt good and I like how they are relevant vs red decks, Delver, BUG decks, Misthollow Griffins (horrible matchup), Reality Smashers and even Griselbrands.

@Gitrog Monster: Have to test it, but it looks like more fun than good. Maybe it could be worth playing next to a Sigarda at the top end of the mana curve. It's a potential finisher by itself but in addition, once it's on the battlefield and your opponent is looking for a way to get rid of it you are likely to draw into a lot of threats and removal. The interaction with dredge cards is pretty good (esp the dredge land) but since we hardly play any dredge cards normally the concept is stretching the list quite a bit.. Keep on brewing!

Also I'll be playing at GP Prague this year and think I may be playing a fit list. Would be really nice to say hello to anyone else attending, I was too lazy at Lille last year.