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I was planning on submitting 0 Chronomatons, and I don't see the point in banning it when it's probably not that great by itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
The dangerous possibility is 2 Chronomatons, but that is really weak to removal, among other options.
Naturally, I'm against this proposal.
Im against banning something that loses to shock
It should be 3-3, H cannot spike OTD. Turn 1 Kuldotha wins T4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Correct assumption, but seems to be the minority opinion ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Ooh more points! You're right of course. I had FoN in mind, but Spike needs mana to be cast. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
I'll adjust my scores.
So it would seem. I'll let the vote run for while longer, and make a final decision late afternoon/early evening.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
I'm against banning Chronomaton, I don't think it will be oppressive in any way.
Generally speaking, in these deviant formats I'm not a big fan of banning things unless they're literally the only viable strategy - finding these powerful things in the unique formats each week is a big part of the appeal to me.
That's 5 against and 2 in favour, and I don't want to wait any longer, so announcement: Chronomaton will be legal.
I will be creating my deck in the next hour or so, so stand by for next round to open.
Standings for last round to follow. I'm not sure I have everybody's scores yet, and I haven't checked properly yet because busy. :cool:
Is Trall legal?
Turns out you can't kill a good inside joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Wow that's so inside I don't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
Anyway, let's get this round going.
I'll set the deadline at the regular Wednesday, as nothing changed and I think everybody has a good deck in mind already.
ROUND 13 OF SEASON 9: DEVIANT LEGACY - PART 2 has started.
This round we play Concise: Only cards with one-word names are legal. No additional bannings.
Please note that Pili-Pala is considered to be a card name with two words. We will extrapolate accordingly.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 13, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 14th of April at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Terror, Sangrophage.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S09R13 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition. :smile:
Happy deck designing everybody! :cool:
Agreed that you shouldn't be able to draw a game by just refusing to give up priority or tapping your Basalt Monolith. I think WoP's situation falls somewhere in between "stalling" (the en-Kor example, shouldn't be allowed) and "preventing your opponent from killing you) (the Lawkeeper example, should be allowed). In my head I was coming down more on allowing it because it doesn't feel like stalling when you're still moving through phases, passing priority, passing the turn, and creating tokens. But I agree that we need to draw the line somewhere so that you can't auto-draw any matchup just by looping, and I can see where the rest of you are coming from. Either way works for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
For the next round, what constitutes a word? Is Pili-Pala one word or two? What about Telim'Tor? Will-o'-the-Wisp?
And there goes my secret "bet you didn't think this was 1 word" anti-Chronomaton tech.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxx!
I'm pretty sure hyphenated words do not count as one word, but I'll let Asthereal be the judge.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Interesting, I would have expected they do count, so we definitely need to clarify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
My understanding on hyphenated words count is that Two-Headed Giant is three words, but that Will-o'-the-Wisp is one, because you could have "giant with two heads", but cannot break the wisp.
Mind you, I'm not a native speaker, so probably not useful input :p
Correct. The - mark just connects two words. It's still two words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
As for Will-o'-the-Wisp: I'm pretty sure it stands for Will of the Wisp, and considering it one name doesn't count, as all card names are names, technically.
I've edited the post opening the round, and the first post as well, to clarify.
For people who don’t know regular expressions very well (like me), the following scryfall query may be helpful:
-name:/(\s|\-)/ f:vintage
Thanks! I didn't know you could use regex in scryfall - that's pretty coolQuote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Trall was short for Ancestral Recall. And your reply is the perfect reply because it was originally used with such confidence that everyone would know what Trall was, though most people either didn't know or guessed but weren't exactly sure. Unless your reply that you didn't know what was happening was intended to be a joke, in which case: well done. In that round, by the way, Lion's Eye Diamond, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Ideas Unbound, Ideas Unbound was playable as a turn 2 combo, which I think would have actually done very well (better than what I put in, anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
It's interesting having Chronomaton highlighted like this. I mean, most people probably found it, but did everyone? And did everyone know that everyone else did?
It reminds me of the eye colour riddle. Quoted below if you haven't seen it.
Quote:
On an island, there are 100 people who have blue eyes, and the rest of the people have brown eyes. At the start of the puzzle, no one on the island ever knows their own eye color. By rule, if a person on the island ever discovers they have blue eyes, that person must leave the island at dawn; anyone not making such a discovery always sleeps until after dawn. On the island, each person knows every other person's eye color, there are no reflective surfaces, and there is no communication of eye color.
At some point, an outsider comes to the island, calls together all the people on the island, and makes the following public announcement: "I'm surprised to find blue eyes on this island". The outsider, furthermore, is known by all to be truthful, and all know that all know this, and so on: it is common knowledge that he is truthful, and thus it becomes common knowledge that there is at least one islander who has blue eyes. The problem: assuming all persons on the island are completely logical and that this too is common knowledge, what is the eventual outcome?
Nah, I just didn't know it. I never played or followed Vintage, so there was never a reason to talk about Ancestral Recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
EDIT: The deadline has passed, and it looks like I'm missing an entry from Reeplcheep. I'll give you some extra time while I do work stuff.
If it takes us 14 rounds to play around Chronomaton, we might need a bannathon.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
I really enjoyed the pauper/peasant lower power bannathons. Maybe in a future season we could do pioneer bannathon for another low power bannathon but it should have a quite different flavour.
Do you have submitted ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
I really want to see how many chronomattons were submitted :)
Yep just submitted. Apologies for my tardiness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serguei
I submitted zero, so I definitely lowered the average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serguei
Here we go.
DECKS FOR ROUND 13 OF SEASON 9: Deviant Legacy - Part 2
This round we play Concise: all cards must have names containing just one word.
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, Gravecrawler
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn
7. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
You can also enter your scores in the Google Spreadsheet for the season which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
I was hoping not this many people would play around Daze...
1. Asthereal (TO): Mirror match. DD 2-2
2. Wrath of Pie: Daze one Bitterblossom, lose to the 2nd. LL 0-6
3. PJim: Duress takes Daze, lose to Bitterblossom. LL 0-6
4. jhhdk: To play around Daze you play T2 Gravecrawler. If you ever play Rancor, I Dismember in response countering Rancor. Other than that you can't attack into Chronomaton and eventually lose to a 20/20. WW 6-0
5. Serguei: Daze one Bitterblossom, lose to the 2nd. LL 0-6
6. alphastryk: Daze stops Isolate, Dismember kills your Chronomaton, and Condemn is temporary... I just draw Chrono again and replay it. WW 6-0
7. H: Whirlermaker is a nice find. I was ready for double Rackling but not that. I can Daze Rackling any time, but you can also just never play it. T3 Whirlermaker. T4 make a token.
8. GoblinSmashmaster: If I play Chronomaton, you can Firestorm it for X=1. I can Daze to save it but then lose to Reanimate, so instead I let Chrono die and Daze your Reanimate to draw. If you Firestorm first, I still Daze Reanimate but keep Chrono so that's worse for you. We stare. DD 2-2
10. maxx!: Whether we Daze each others' answers or threats, this should draw either way. DD 2-2
11. silkster: I was hoping to see the version with Mutavault instead of Glimmerpost, that plays around Unmask/Vendetta but loses to Daze. LL 0-6
12. dte: Duress takes Daze, lose to Bitterblossom. LL 0-6
13. Reeplcheep: Daze stops Bitterblossom. Dismember stops Vebulid. Chrono beats Mutavault. WW 6-0
14. Tylert: You play T2 Hexdrinker and start levelling up. This forces out my Dismember before you need to activate Mutavault. Then I can't beat Mutavault or Daze Dismember on Chrono. LL 0-6
24 points (6 wins, 6 draws)
I really misread this meta. My other decks were:
Taiga, Raze, Taiga, Hexdrinker
Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Mutavault, Leveler
Hammerheim, Mutavault, Sparksmith, Sparksmith
Mutavault, Desert, Sliversmith, Progenitus (worse version of Bitterblossom, which I missed)
Pendelhaven, Forest, Necropede, Invigorate
Raze would have gotten about 54 points here, but loses hard to Duress and Daze Chrono decks. Turned out everyone played multiple land decks that were strong vs Daze and weak vs Raze.
Edit: Even my black version of this (Swamp, Chronomaton, Duress, Vendetta) would have scored 52. I saw them as equivalent mirrors, but Duress answers a lot more here than Daze does!
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom
I was a little surprised at the suggestion of a Chronomaton ban, as Bitterblossom was the next most obvious threat to me, and beats Chrono straight up. The threat of turn 1 discard (with Duress, Divest and Encroach being hard to cover oneself against) was the bugbear for me, but also hasn't proved very popular.
vs
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember / 6-0, Duress takes Daze, BB beats Chrono
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom / 3-3, Edit: Changed my mind, I think faster BB wins as that person can swing with Mutavault.
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, Gravecrawler / 6-0, Duress takes Rancor, A few Faeries let me attack while holding off Gravecrawler
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom / 0-6, I'm pretty sure Pendelhaven must win over Mutavault here
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn / 6-0, BB beats Chrono
7. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker / 0-6, 4 life a turn is a lot.
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate / 6-0, Duress takes Reanimate
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember / 6-0, as #1
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton / 6-0, Duress takes Daze, BB beats Chrono
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler / 6-0, I thought Leveler trampled. Fortunately not.
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom / 3-3, Edit: I win by taking BB on the play, and lose by having Duress taken OTD.
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault / 6-0, Duress takes BB.
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember / 0-6, Can't handle Hexdrinker.
54 points
Assuming FTW doesn't make any mistakes here, and he rarely does, I score the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
OTP you should win. Duress takes Bitterblossom, then dte has no interaction vs your Mutavault.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
OTD Duresses trade, then Pendelhaven wins the Bitterblossom mirror.
3-3?
Yeah, should have spotted that given it's pretty much the reason I played Mutavault...Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom
Sporting a deck good in the bitterblossom mirror (pendel), and good vs chrono/daze, raze stacks and reanimator.
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
6-0. Was for me the number one DTB I metagame against.
6
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
6-0. Pendel >> Mutavault in the mirror (and in magic in general for me, but that's a personal opinion) if no duresses.
12
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom
3-3. OTP I duress duress, and pendel wins it. OTD, we duress each other our BBs, and mutavault kills me.
15
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, Gravecrawler
6-0. Duress on rancor, Pendel ensure I take no other damage than from my own BB.
21
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
3-3. The almost exact mirror. Better vs duress + mutavault, less good vs rea and weird things. First player gets to attack and pump (19-18, then 19-17), so it is 3-3 and not 2-2.
24
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn
6-0. I take out condemn to avoid a massive lifegain, and can block every turn while flying above chrono.
30
7. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker
0-6. Rackling races me. I didn't think about it at all. I wonder how double rackling would have worked?
30
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate
6-0. Curious to see how you fare, that was my second favourite deck, but was afraid of daze, duress, stacks (which no one played) and karakas.
36
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
6-0. like Asthereal.
42
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton
6-0. Like FTW and Asthereal.
48
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler
6-0. Can chumpblock for 20 turns. I had vesuva over the second cloudpost.
54
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault
6-0. Duress takes BB.
60
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember
0-6. Pretty sure hexdrinker races me even if mutavault cannot attack into Pendel after I duress dismember. I didn't imagine hexdrinker at all, but it's a great threat.
60
My other decks were stacks (cloudpost, vesuva, smokestack, epochrasite), Gob's reanimator, and variation around bitterblossom, chronomaton/daze, raze and posts.lands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
The proposition to ban chrono was about daze, not about chrono as a threat being crazy without it. We thought that without chronomaton, daze would still be playable but not that crazy strong that we all have to play around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
It was still the most played deck, and the one most people played around (isolate??).
OTP you win, mutavault takes it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember WW
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom DD
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, Gravecrawler LL
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom LL
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn WW
7. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker LL
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate LL
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember WW
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton WW
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler WW
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom LL
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault WW
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember LL
10w2d = 32 points
I was expecting way more Chronomaton/double Daze (about the only reasonable method I could find that dealt with the Bitterblossom issue, although Fragmentize was hilariously good as well), and also missed the Pendelhaven memo.
DemonSmashmaster Results for Round "Bitterblossom"
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
Daze 2-2
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
Griselsmash! 6-0
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom
Duress 0-6
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, Gravecrawler
Griselsmash! 6-0
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
Griselsmash! 6-0
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn
Condemn 2-2
7. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker
Stare 2-2
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate
That's me!
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
Daze 2-2
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton
Daze 2-2
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler
Griselsmash! 6-0
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom
Duress 0-6
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault
Griselsmash! 6-0
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember
Griselsmash! 6-0
Total: 46 points!
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember WW
Hey, this was my tier 0 deck, and the deck I would have played if Chronomaton hadn't been discussed.
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom LL
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom LL
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, GravecrawlerDDWW, Gravecrawler apparently can't block.
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom LL
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn LL
7. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker LL
Even on the play, I can't apply pressure fast enough because you can play and use Whirlermaker on the same turn.
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate LL
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember WW
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton WW
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom LL
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault LL
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember
WWI thought Hexdrinker was "Hexparasite" cause it's too new for me.Looks like DD in the "Leveler" mirror.DL it seems (math on the next page).
OMG, so many blockers!26302625 points.
It did not go well, but not at all for the reason I thought. Apparently Bitterblossom was the card to beat, just like in the single-block round of the last Deviant Legacy.
My decks were:
Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember.
Swamp, Divest, Reanimate, Thraximundar.
Swamp, Everglades, Duress, Nyxathid.
Cloudposts with Endbringer or Pentavus.
I was also looking at something like Swamp + Chronomaton + Vendetta/Paralyze + Duress/Divest/Encroach.
It turns out that Swamp+Encroach+Chronomaton alone is already 36 points.
I'm rooting for the creatures and lands only bannathon season (optionally with the rest of the berserker rules; I'm guessing without them, for simplicity). I really like this idea for the simple fact that no one will ever wrongly dismiss a card and go "wait, that's in pioneer?".Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
So many blockers, but gravecrawler shouldn't be one!
And also rooting for a deviant bannathon (only creatures and lands sound great, but even with most rules it could be fun in a bannathon).
Edit: I thought you could draw this, but forgot how bad Cloudpost is in the mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
Good observation. I didn't change my decks or metagame after the discussion, and in retrospect I should have. Like your riddle of waiting 100 days, the public announcement changes things. Looks like most people metagamed around Chronomaton and Daze.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
My version of this - Swamp, Duress, Chronomaton, Vendetta - would have scored about 54. Your variations should be similar. Discard turned out to be strong in this field of turn 2 decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
I would enjoy that too. Opens up a whole different design space of cards that aren't good enough to explore in regular Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember LL
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom looks like WW (disagreement)
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom, looks like LL, after duress takes rancor i dont think i stand a chance.
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, Gravecrawler <-- ME
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom WW according to dte, I really should do an analysis of OTD,
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn, LL you can remove both my threats
7. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker WL apparantly
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate LL, U 2 Fast 4 me
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember LL
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton LL when isolate removes gravecrawler I cant really race
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler LL
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom looks like LL, after duress takes rancor i dont think i stand a chance.
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault WW according to dte
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember Looks like LL, I can't cast rancor when you keep mana open for dismember and i dont think i can win without it.
vs. Sergei
OTD
S: Pendelhaven
J: Bayou, Gravecrawler
S: Swamp, Bitterblossom
J: Mutavault, Rancor attack 4/1 - 20/16
S: Token, Bitterblossom - 20/15
J: Transform Muta, Attack 1 x 4/1 1x 2/2, S blocks gravecrawler - 20/10
S: Token +2 (2) - 20/8
J: recast gravecrawler - 20/8
S: Token +2 (4). attack 2 x 1/1 -18/6
J: recast rancor attack 4/1, pump token, block - 18/5
S: Token +2 (5), attack 2 x 1/1, 1 x 2/3 - 14/5
J: recast gravecrawler - 14/5
S: Token +2 (7), attack 5 x 1/1 - 9/3
J: recast rancor, attack 4/1, S blocks with 2 faeries not to die on upkeep
S: Token +2 (7), attack 4 x 1/1, 1 x 2/3 - 3/1
J: Pass
S: die
I think jhhdk is right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
Gravecrawler+Rancor tramples over Bitterblossom tokens and races your tokens. If you block, Bitterblossom drains your life and he just recasts Gravecrawler (Mutavault turns itself into a Zombie) and tramples through.
W - Mutavault
J - Bayou. Crawler
W - Swamp. Bitterblossom
J - Mutavault. Rancor. Attack with 4/1 trample. [W=16]
W - 1 token. Bitterblossom. [W=15]
J - Attack with 4/1 trample. Token trades, 3 trample. [W=12] Activate Mutavault & replay Gravecrawler.
W - 2 tokens [W=10]. Attack with Mutavault. [J=18]
J - Rancor. Attack with 4/1 trample. Token trades, 3 trample. [W=7]
W - 3 tokens [W=5] Attack with 1 token + Vault [J=15]
J - Activate Mutavault, replay Gravecrawler.
W - 5 tokens [W=3]. Attack with 3 tokens + Vault [J=10]
J - Rancor. Attack with 4/1 trample.
Lose by next upkeep.
What if you just race instead? Bitterblossom only attacks by turn 4.
T1 - 20/20
T2 - 20/16
T3 - 20/11
T4 - 17/5
T5 - lose
Playing only 1 Bitterblossom shouldn't help because either way you're paying 1 life per token but that way you get them even slower.
H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Rackling, Whirlermaker
1. Asthereal (TO): Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
As FTW pointed out, you can deal with Rackling, but if I just focus on making with the Wirlermaker, I should have enough chump blockers while still attacking back. 6-0
2. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Mutavault, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
I think I can put enough pressure on your life total with Rackling, while also mounting some blocks with Whirlermaker. 6-0
3. PJim: Swamp, Mutavault, Duress, Bitterblossom
Rackling seems pretty good here, wince the 'maker gets Duressed. 6-0
4. jhhdk: Bayou, Mutavault, Rancor, Gravecrawler
This seems tricky indeed. Lets see what we see.
T1 H: Cloudpost, pass.
T1 J: Bayou, Gravecrawler, pass.
T2 H: Cloudpost, pass.
T2 J: Play Mutavault, Rancor the 'crawler, attack for 4 [H=16], pass.
T3 H: Hard to say here, but lets see what happens if I run out Rackling.
T3 J: Rackling trigger [J=17]. Now we have to see, if you activate the Muta and attack, were I to block the Muta, I could eventually Whirlermaker and block the 'crawler, then we draw. So, attacking with the Muta seems bad for you. So I guess it would just be another attack with the Rancored 'crawler [H=12].
T4 H: Whirlermaker, pass.
T4 J: Rackling trigger [J=14], but same situation as last time, I think it has to just be a 'crawler attack [H=8].
T5 H: Whirlermaker a token [T=1], I don't think I can afford to be attacking though.
T5 J: Rackling trigger [J=11], again, a Muta attack would be bad for you and no attack even worse. So, attack with 'crawler, I block, [H=5], 'crawler dies, token dies [T=0], Rancor is back in hand, pass.
T6 H: Make a token and pass [T=1].
T6 J: Rackling trigger is less [J=9], tap the Muta to activate itself, play 'crawler.
T7 H: Make a token [T=2] but I think I can afford to attack with 1, since I can still stop Muta and once that is gone, 'crawler can't come back [J=8].
T7 J: Rackling trigger again is for 2 [J=6], play Rancor on the 'crawler, basically have to attack since it can't block anyway. I think I can block with one token, take 3 so [H=2], pass, 'crawler dies, Rancor back in hand.
T8 H: Make a token [T=2], attack with one [J=5].
T8 J: Rackling trigger [J=3], but to play the Crawler, you'd have to activate the Muta, then I can attack next turn and win. If you do nothing, I win.
So I think I get this on the play. It seems close, so I probably lose on the draw.
5. Serguei: Swamp, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom, Bitterblossom
Pendlehaven seems like it makes this bad for me. I will probably have to do the math later, but seems like I lose. (Thanks to FTW, demostrating that I actually win these.) 6-0
6. alphastryk: Plains, Chronomaton, Isolate, Condemn
I probably need to think about this more, but I don't think Condemn can stop me since I'd never attack with Rackling and Isolate can only get rid of one token, but I should have enough to chump forever. 6-0
7. H: Bye, myself.
8. GoblinSmashmaster: Badlands, Firestorm, Griselbrand, Reanimate
Hmm, I guess I can chump the G-man forever, so neither of us can win. 2-2
9. FTW: Island, Chronomaton, Daze, Dismember
Same as Asthereal, looks like I win both? 6-0
10. maxx!: Tundra, Daze, Isolate, Chronomaton
Daze stops the Rackling, but I think I can make enough token to always chump and still be able to chip back an attack. 6-0?
11. silkster: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Leveler
Awkward Cloudpost mirror, but the 'maker makes chump blockers forever. 6-0
12. dte: Swamp, Duress, Pendelhaven, Bitterblossom
Hmm, seems Rackling would race? Bitterblossom math is terrible, I figured Pendlehaven might change it, but I guess I'll trust dte's analysis. 6-0?
13. Reeplcheep: Vebulid , Swamp, Bitterblossom , Mutavault
More Bitterblossom math? Ugh, I guess though that Rackling might race this too, since I can make tokens in this matchup? 6-0
14. Tylert: Bayou, Mutavault, Hexdrinker, Dismember
Hexdriker seems really bad for me, I don't think I can beat that, since I can't chump block it. 0-6
Some stuff I probably need to think more about...
Thanks for FTW for the further analysis. Still need to figure out the jhhdk match when I am on the draw though.
My deck is very slightly different but I don't see any matchups where the difference changes the outcome. Pretty sure these are my results too.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
My first instinct for this round was that it was going to be Raze vs Duress, and since there was literally no fast mana available, that led me to not even look through anything that cost more than 1 (I didn't have time this week to go through the whole list of cards). Last night I remembered that Daze existed, and it beat most of my Raze and Duress decks, so that's where I landed. Not great, but at least I came up with a deck that everyone thought would be powerful? Haha