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Engineered Explosives seems like a much safer card to run than Maelstrom Pulse. Since it can randomly be used to hit problem stuff like Engineered Plague, Crucible of Worlds or Lorescale Coatl, but even if you're being kept off EE@3, you can always hold back a fetch or dual in hand to hit EE@2 and it deals with the largest problem, Tarmogoyf.
Admittedly it doesn't answer Elspeth or Humility though, which are both gigantic pains in the ass if they get online.
Luckily though, we still have krosan grip :)
Often, you can just build up a giant force against humility, cast K grip at EOT and swing for the win in your own turn.
And yeah, elspeth is horrible. It means you're going to have to overextend just to be able to deal with the infinite chumpblockers and run into a wog as a result, assuming you're talking about landstill.
That being said, I'm not going to call our landstill matchup unfavorable. It's probably the most even matchup goblins has (goblins being a deck of extremes, either completely raping in some matchups and losing 99% in others) pretty much depending on your starting hand, since you'll be left unchecked for the first few turns and if you start with say, a lackey or a vial and some meat to drop after it you can do just fine, even in the face of humility. It's a matchup where rishadan ports shine.
What's the consensus on Blood Moon? I've played Goblins for a long time but lately became dissatisfied with the cards available. Razerunners turned out to be not as great as I thought, and I sidelined the deck for a while. It just feels weird to play a red deck that doesn't use Blood Moon. I think the best bet would be to try proactive solutions against things that stop goblins. Moon can shut down Deed or other large bombs. At the very least, it will probably buy a turn, which puts you ahead if you have board control. Other more proactive cards could be lightning bolt or, one of my favorites, pyrostatic pillar. All of these cards also help to set you up for a possible mono-red build or at least a single-color-splash build.
Magus is probably better, since it's uncounterable with Vial, and lots of decks splash removal and won't have access to their removal colors.
Either way, they don´t fit. We don´t have accel to drop them before turn3, and again, they´re non goblins. Bolt is the only usable, but then I guess it would suit better in different versions of the deck, like a goblin burn build, like I posted 3 or 4 pages back.
Why are you afraid of spot removal? We have bazillions of goblins, and a lot of CA with that. Even WoG shoulden´t be a big concern...
This is what makes things interesting. I question: with vial, if you vial it in, and the opponent does not respond to tapping the vial, isn't it too late for them to float mana when you put magus of the moon in play? If so, that makes it slightly better. ETA: Alright thank you I was just doublechecking things.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamegeek2
Both are eh for the deck. Not terrible, but...not really great either. If you played in a small metagame I'd throw it in once in a while for surprises. But otherwise I and it seems others agree that it isn't so hot.
You're right, they can't float mana if they let the Vial ability resolve.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoulQ
Ever tought about Lightning Greaves? Reusable haste & shroud can't be that bad.
The more interesting implication is being allowed not to Vial anything in if you tap it and they do float. So if they seem to be expecting Magus and floating White for StP or Blue for Hydroblast, you can play tricks on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by georgjorge
It's not a goblin, it equips at sorcery speed (making it fairly useless for protection), warchief already gives your guys haste. Pretty terrible in goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
In the games that I've played Warchief doesn't live very long. If it does you are prolly going to win. Your opponents know that and will do everything to destroy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melman
Opponents don't always have mana free to answer your creatures during your turn... but he will have as soon as it's his untap phase. It's not like your opponent can keep all his mana available versus a deck with 30+ threats in it.
It's obvious that you haven't even tested it at all. I've been play testing it for two days and no it isn't terrible in goblins. Goblins love haste... and your opponents fear it. Yeah sure it's no ultimate protection but it's prolly as good as protection for Goblins will get. As long as you have goblins Lightning Greaves is never a useless card. Nothing wrong with a Warchief, Sharpshooter or Wort that can't be targeted... :cool:
Something funny that I pulled off:
1st turn: Aether Vial
2nd turn: Lightning Greaves, Tap Vial for Lackey, Attach Greaves and attack.
My experience is that it puts a lot more pressure on enemies. It makes you more dangerous in every stage of the game. Constant pressure... isn't that what Goblins wants to do?
If lightning greaves was the supersecret tech everybody would play it right now. Go ahead and try it, but most of the time you're going to be wishing you drew another goblin instead.
It's redundant with warchief. Sure, they're going to kill warchief if they can. They also are going to kill lackey if they can. And your piledrivers if you have any number of threats out. And your goblin kings, if you play them or SBed them in, and they have mountains. They need to kill everything. They don't need to kill greaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
Warchief gives haste. As far as I know, this means you can use the guys you play on your own turn, before their untap phase, and before they have free mana to answer it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
Also, vialing stuff in EoT of their turn is as good as haste.
The deck plays plenty of ways to get around removal for a turn, so this is a ridiculous argument.
I've never tested it because I've played goblins long enough to know a bad card when I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
You know what's better than a warchief, sharpshooter, or Wort that can't be targetted? Two Warchief, sharpshooters, or Worts (In the case of wort, playing the second if the first dies).Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
This is cool. This is also the only time I could ever see lightning greaves being a worthwhile inclusion. This happens like one in fourty-someodd games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
Lackey turn 1, incinerate their blocker turn 2?
Vial turn 1, Port a land turn 2 vial in lackey eot, king turn 3 attack with unblockable?
I mean, it's not like greaves is doing something that isn't already done better
Again, it's not a goblin. Let's go through the reasons this is bad a thing. It's dead off ringleader. It can't be vialed in, meaning you have to spend mana playing it rather than wastelanded or porting your opponents lands or dropping another threat. It can't be put into play with lackey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
And, it's like the definition of not constant pressure. Try drawing a greaves turn 5 after you've emptied your hand and are looking for an incinerator, ringleader, or matron to bring in the guys again, and tell me that it's applying pressure.
Exactly. This is why I think magus of the moon (but not necessarily blood moon) is a good call in small (SMALL) metagames once in a while. Sometimes you will play it sb, sometimes you won't, they have to play like you are because it can still wreck decks. The prospect of not playing it actually excites me more than playing it. But unfortunately most experienced players in larger metagames (or just ignorant players) aren't going to be expecting moons from goblins because they are somewhat uncommon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
Post some results with lightning greaves, then come back. I'm going to have to stand with the majority in that it probably is like a million other good cards that don't really fit in the goblin theme. Hell, greaves isn't even really a good card.
I think greaves is taking away from the thematic focus on goblins...goblins is not necessarily about the guys on the field. We have the superstar cards, but superstar cards are easily stopped by swords to plowshares. The deck leads others in many intangibles, such as in the tempo game and in the concept of "inevitability." Lightning greaves is more about speed and other garbage that goblins doesn't need, especially with how slow the meta is right now.
how about moon + goblin king? moon is the best red card in the game and probably the only non-goblin worth considering. it compliments the mana denial strategy that's already used in goblins.
as for having no acceleration, I don't think it's needed. goblins has a ton of early threats to put the opponent off balance. moon acts as a finisher when it comes down on turn 3 or 4.
if they're able to locate removal for it and plan ahead, then that's fine too. it's just another card that clogs up their mana and trades with a removal spell. combining it with goblin king makes it even more threatening, and the king himself isn't all that bad either.
I've been running 3 Goblin King MD for about a year and Blood Moon in the SB I love it! Something about screwing up mana bases and having unblockable dudes seems awesome. True Story. I know some people don't like the Goblin King but he really hasn't sucked for me although I admit he's prolly the weakest card in the deck at the moment. I like Blood Moon over Magus cause it doesn't die to STP, Smother, Snuff Out... you get the point. I know you can "vial" out Magus but he still dies way to often. Chances are your opponent will counter turn 1 Lackey, turn 2 Piledriver, turn 3 Warcheif whichs means there's a good chance Blood Moon will resolve turn 4, effectively screwing them over, hopefully, if they counter or answer all that shit you prolly ain't winning anyway...
As far as Greaves is concerned, I can see where it might be good... What happens mid game when you need a removal spell or another goblin to win and you top deck Greaves? The phrase sub-optimal comes to mind. Goblins has to push the tempo so you have to maximize the effectiveness of every slot. Basically every card has to be removal or a threat. You shouldn't be worried about saving a goblin, they die it's what they're made for, you should worry about bashing face, that to is what they're made for. True Story
@Greaves: Greaves is just a flat out shit awful idea. An equipment that grants haste and shroud. Whee. Let's dissect all the things wrong with this.
1. You already run eight creatures with haste, four of which grant everything in your deck haste.
2. You don't really need shroud, as your solution to removal is to Matron/Ringleader for multiple copies of things. Or just kill with other Goblins. No threat you have is so vital to the assault that it can't be done without.
3. Your guys don't really benefit all that much from haste. Not enough to warrant a slot specifically for this. The same is true of Shroud.
4. If you're going to run an equipment, why aren't you running Umezawa's Jitte, or something that's actually good?
@RBW: Vindicate is weak because you need both splash colors and because it's mana intensive. Also, RBW is a weak splash because White and Black both do the same thing for a large part: Removal and anti-combo.
It's also worth noting that the white splash doesn't offer you much that the green-and-black splash also offers. The point of the white splash is to be able to do -everything- in one color splash, albeit not the most effecient way possible.
I have a really random question about affinity. Say you have a SB like this:
4 Combo Hate
3 Krosan Grip
3/4 Pyrokinesis or creature hate of your choice
3/4 whatever
Do you side in the grips and the kinesis? With vial, that is 10-11 nongoblins, and with most competitive builds playing 22-24 lands nowadays, that's a pathetic goblin count of 25-28 goblins. So just wondering what you guys do, I would think you'd want those ringleaders against affinity as your deck is slightly slower. (And I play 2 EE in the sb as well, maybe side those in too?)
A question like this may seem random and minor, but it will answer a lot of the issues I have with sideboarding with the deck.
Pyrokinesis is a bad topdeck against Affinity, you would want it in your opening hand, but even then it's not that amazing. Just board in the Krosan Grips or don't board at all.
I play one Tin Street Hooligan and one Goblin Tinkerer in the SB.
Realy usefull, both have their advantages, so you search out the guy you need.