[Deck] Dragon Stompy

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Originally Posted by Shanghi Knights

so basically a few match ups we will be more dependent on winning the dai roll perhaps?

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The Zoo matchup already depends on who plays first. If we go first, we land Chalice@1, then Blood Moon/Magus, gg. If they go first, they do turn 1 Nacatl, and even if we manage to play Chalice they just play Qasali/Hooligan and ruin the day. And if we play Magus before Chalice they bolt it. And if we play Gathan Raiders before Chalice they Bolt/Stp it. And if... aww, I'll reset my mind.
<Initializing Process Complete>
Basically Dragon Stompy is by itself a deck of questions. The sooner our "questions" hit the field, the more we have chances to win the game. This is obvious. Turn 1 Moon is better than turn 999 Moon. The deck relies on early lock pieces or big beaters to end the game quickly. *Insert creature* is obviously stronger when we're on the play. And Moon effects, oh, how it's cool when the game ends as soon as it starts. First turn City/Mox/Moon. Then the opponent says "Let's play the second out of 3 games". But if we risk the Moon on the draw, they'll fetch for their basic island (just in case), then they play Brainstorm, stay for about 15 years staring at their cards in hand, put 2 on the top of their deck, then FoW/Daze. This is a fast deck, and needs to end things quickly. To do that, sometimes it depends on the dice roll. Nothing else will change. Misty Rainforest is just the new Windswept Heath. Nothing will change. Maybe.

so basically what your saying is, me saying we need win the dai roll more often than usual, is wrong, it will ultimately stay the same? (the number of match ups that it is crucial to get a dai roll for winning the game.)

i'm not the greatest with statistics in this game as i never post any but obviously this is the decks funnest part as it can decide games through the dai roll's results and you don't have to put much thought into it after your first turn.

course if you wanna do a lot of thinking play doomsday or ad nauseum. (maybe i'm wrong on the thinking portion of those but i base that statement on how long the opponent sits there driving me crazy waiting for them to finish there dang turn.)

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Originally Posted by Shanghi Knights

...win the dai roll...it is crucial to get a dai roll...

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For fuck's sake, it's die roll.

And learn how to capitalize.

i didn't realize they were spelled the same die as in dice and die as in you "killed something!"

By the way why does it even bother you? You obvious can figure out what i'm saying.

To be honest, I was really annoyed with it too but I just didn't say anything.

You're right, he obvious [sic] can figure out what you're saying.

jst liek u can figuer out what im sayign but isnt it just a littel annoy?

Not too long till the passing "mod' deletes these posts because they have nothing to do with dragon stompy.

But if you want to get into the miss spellings that (i might be wnorg about this) Harvard studeid and how the mnid still recognizes the word patterns and blah blah blah lets start a thared about it in msih msah as i think it would be fun.

About DS though. i've been thinking about going sword of light and shadow main board again. i originally took them out for space being better used for multiples of other cards. I'm thinking of going back to it. I saw the pro white goblin from shard (what ever its called) giving my friends landstill a hard time as all he could do is wrath it off the table. plus wouldn't bringing swords back into the deck be a good counter eater for such match ups? If i do bring it back i'm thinking of putting in the trinisphere spot in the md.

Don't worry. There have been far less constructive pages in this thread that were actually trying to improve the deck. Dragon Stompy is the only legitimate deck thread where I have urges to post "In before lock" after each post.

I'm going to weigh in on Blood Moon and say it gets worse with the new fetches. Any three color deck is going to be able to pack fetches and one of each basic, and certain decks I've seen recently are functioning off 12 fetch / 3 dual / 3-6 basic setups, which is really annoying.

Turn one Moons don't get any weaker, but turn one Moons on the draw and turn two Moons on the play do. There are more basics to fetch. So as a result my crew is experimenting with ways to add land destruction to the deck to hit basics without making the deck terrible. We'll let you know how this works. If anything, it's made the deck more irritating to play against.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

If anything, it's made the deck more irritating to play against.

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Sounds good enough for me.

Just to chime in, in my experience the opponent has been almost equally screwed with or without the lone basic if the moon was not all we had. Something like a chalice at one, some dudes, or god forbid - a trinisphere on the table in addition to the moon is still going to make them very uncomfortable.

Remember, we are not a lock deck, we are an aggro deck that packs disruption that can sometimes be gg on the spot, but that is not the point of it. BM is still going to annoy people to no end.

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Originally Posted by deviant

Sounds good enough for me.

Just to chime in, in my experience the opponent has been almost equally screwed with or without the lone basic if the moon was not all we had. Something like a chalice at one, some dudes, or god forbid - a trinisphere on the table in addition to the moon is still going to make them very uncomfortable.

Remember, we are not a lock deck, we are an aggro deck that packs disruption that can sometimes be gg on the spot, but that is not the point of it. BM is still going to annoy people to no end.

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I have to agree with that. I won many games without a single Moon or Chalice on the board. And the opponents had their archipelago with Tundras, Seas and Trops. A lone basic isn't that scary. Also, if the deck is 2/3 colored, even if they have a single basic, it means they can play only certain spells. That's still virtual advantage, and it is still good. Blood Moon will continue to be a nightmare for many, many players.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

So as a result my crew is experimenting with ways to add land destruction to the deck to hit basics without making the deck terrible. We'll let you know how this works. If anything, it's made the deck more irritating to play against.

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I like the Idea, stone rain/pillage. I recently cut down to 6 moon effects and 2 jittes for 3 lotus petals, really helps getting hellbent sooner, and consistent turn one Dragon, or a chalice for two. Played the list in a tourney last week went 4-0 rounds 8-1 games, got rocked in t8 to dreadstill, game 1 (on the draw) lost to turn 2 dreadnaught, game 2 I stuck a turn one trinisphere, then boiled his two lands, game three got the worst draws in history should have mulliganed and lost:frown: .

Dudes:
4 Dragon
4 Raiders
4 spirit guide
4 Magus
4 Mauler

Spells:
2 Moon
4 Song

Artifacts:
4 Mox
3 Petal
4 Chalice
3 Trinisphere
2 Jitte

10 Mountain
4/4 tomb/city

thinking of cutting a mauler for either a mountain or a trinisphere/lotus/moon.

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Originally Posted by Gibsonmac

8< ------- cut, cut, cut

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A few questions as I really like Dragon Stompy and I'm interested in all possible variants of the deck:
-How was your experience with "only" 20 creatures?
-You don't play Arc-Slogger (or at least in the maindeck). I'm playing 2 at the moment, for the flexibility issue. Were there some situations in which you cursed your choice of completely cutting them?
-Turn 1 Dragon is that important in your meta? Also, aren't you afraid of Force of Will and Swords to Plowshares?
-Isn't Lotus Petal a bit excessive? The core of the deck already has 30 mana sources (18x lands/4x SSG/4x Mox/Song). Also, it is a terrible topdeck and clashes with 3sphere, unlike SSG. Did you have any trouble by playing it?
-Finally, what is your sideboard like?

P.S. I'm finally done with the Red Elemental Blasts test. It has been succesful. I've been completely raping Merfolks, Landstill (which was like, huh, a coin-toss matchup for me before the REB inclusion: protecting bombs is insane, especially since I won't ever board 3sphere against :u::w:-X), and occasional games against MUC (I played against that deck only once on the MWS, so I don't think a single 2/3 game with sb can be relevant), and many, many games against Faerie Stompy (almost always won) and Canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh. I also had the chance to test (against 3sh) Dragon Stompy in a post-Zendikar environment (read: Misty Rainforest proxies). I have to admit it. Game 2 is nearly impossible to win, if we go second. If they succesfully fetch for a basic Forest, they can play their Goyfs/Mongeese, as well as Krosan Grips if Blood Moon ever hits the field. The fact that they don't have to keep 3 mana untapped each time is a huge loss for us. Also, FoW can be played for free, and Bolts-Fire/Ice can be played under a Blood Moon. Things are getting worse, 'cause we were used to play against 3x Polluted Delta/3x Flooded Strands (sometimes against the 3x Delta/2x Foothills/1x Strand split). Now they just need to substitute one of those with Rainforest, and have even access to their basic Forest. REB from the SB doesn't help against it, at all. I honestly think the Canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh matchup has gotten worse. That's only my humble opinion.

I never wished I had the arc slogger, too hard to cast at times and can (in my experience, more often than not) make becoming hellbent more difficult. which is why I went with the petals, I would have to disagree about topdecking them, even if you get a tomb/city wasted without moon on the board, if you draw into a slogger or anything other than a land/mox, your dragon(s)/raider(s) just got turned off, but a petal you can dump and you're hellbent again. I haven't had any problems playing it, for me it only Up's the consistency factor

I have never had any problems with 20 creatures, actually I look at it as 8 creatures, the monkey's are accelerants, magus is for the lock and the mauler is a target for the mox most times, but can be great against fish. rarely do i even need to attack with the 'B' squad.

the turn one dragon can be ridiculous, but all depends on the Mu, I never go all-in first turn unless I know what i'm up against. swords really doesn't give me trouble too often it gave an opponent another turn to top-deck/live in the mid-game, a couple times, but I usually have another dragon/raider so its no big deal.

my Sb is as follows:

3 crypt/relic (i run 2crypt/1relic) (ichorid/thresh)
3 shattering spree (answer for early dreadnaught)
3 powder keg (ichorid usually)
3 boil (Love one sided armageddons)
3 pryokenisis (fish/tribal, sometimes REB/pyroblast)

I haven't had problems against thresh, crypt removes threshhold, goose and goyf die to all your creatures (even the monkey and thats sad) or remove counters from the jitte for -1/-1. and for me thats where turn one dragon or sphere turn 2 dragon (have to pay 3 for force/daze) really pay off, they lose so much tempo to deal with the early bombs.

also they have to draw the grip (most decks i've seen run a singleton in the board maybe 2-of)

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Turn one Moons don't get any weaker, but turn one Moons on the draw and turn two Moons on the play do. There are more basics to fetch. So as a result my crew is experimenting with ways to add land destruction to the deck to hit basics without making the deck terrible. We'll let you know how this works. If anything, it's made the deck more irritating to play against.

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Do you really think non-allied fetches hurt Moons enough to warrant changing the deck? Because while Moons are technically weaker, it's really not worth mentioning.

indeed, i really don't think much will change, cutting blue sources in most lists is a bad thing just to add a basic forest, so far i think the general consensus is business as usual

Even if the enemy fetchs do make BM less effective we can always go back to equipment in those spots and down 4 BM down to 2/1 for 6 moon effects like before. At least that seems most effective change if Moon effects do become lessened in there effectiveness.

has anyone looked into Zendikar's trap instances for the deck? theoretically we can run Achieve trap


http://wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/pr...wm1w1y9_EN.jpg


something i want to run but moon effects stop it out right, is valakut, the molten pinnacle.


http://wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/pr...s111vpy_EN.jpg

Valakut is bad, now matter how you look at it. I believe there is not a single game I have played with the deck with 5 mountains out, if you don't count Blood Moon effects. It would be the most useless card for this deck, ever.

Also, why do you think milling would be a good strategy for dragon stompy?

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Originally Posted by Hopo

Valakut is bad, now matter how you look at it. I believe there is not a single game I have played with the deck with 5 mountains out, if you don't count Blood Moon effects. It would be the most useless card for this deck, ever.

Also, why do you think milling would be a good strategy for dragon stompy?

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Because D-Stompy is going to start MB'ing Haunting Echoes to compensate for the new fetch lands, SECRETZ TECHZ! :rolleyes:

Seriously though, this deck will still be as powerful after the new fetches hit. I can see the deck leaning on CoV and 3sphere more now and the builds that do not mainboard 3sphere will probably have to start MB if the moon effects end up not being as effective as before.

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Originally Posted by Hopo

Valakut is bad, now matter how you look at it. I believe there is not a single game I have played with the deck with 5 mountains out, if you don't count Blood Moon effects. It would be the most useless card for this deck, ever.

Also, why do you think milling would be a good strategy for dragon stompy?

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To be simple i'm not quite sure how milling would help us. But I speculate if you run the simple numbers, 7 card in hand they go to fetch then you archive trap them thats 20 cards out of the deck. 46 cards to play with now. By sher number alone the possibility of taking out crucial cards that aren't run as a play sets in most decks could be of some advantage. Things we don't like, such as Sower of temptation, engineered explosives, deed, maelstrom pulse, and many more. Plus if we hit crucial combo pieces. Not that CoV and Sphere don't solve most combo problem for us.

Simply though it is just more disruption and will definitely eat a counter spell up for us possibly.

Against landstill my nemesis when i play this deck, the idea of striping any where between (estimating) 7 or 13 answers from there deck is appealing. it really is match up dependent if it would be of any help to DS.

if valakut wasn't a land it would have potential being backed up by moon is what i'm trying to get at but moving on...

But there are more 'trap" cards in the set that I am unaware of that might be of use to the deck which was the main point of my post. Archive trap just looked very interesting at first sight but it by no means will ever shine in DS, but mixed with haunting echos, no wonder they reprinted Haunting echos in M10.

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Originally Posted by Wereodile

Seriously though, this deck will still be as powerful after the new fetches hit. I can see the deck leaning on CoV and 3sphere more now and the builds that do not mainboard 3sphere will probably have to start MB if the moon effects end up not being as effective as before.

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I used to play 4 CotV, 4 Trinis, and 8 Moon effects maindeck.

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Originally Posted by Shanghi Knights

To be simple i'm not quite sure how milling would help us. But I speculate if you run the simple numbers, 7 card in hand they go to fetch then you archive trap them thats 20 cards out of the deck. 46 cards to play with now. By sher number alone the possibility of taking out crucial cards that aren't run as a play sets in most decks could be of some advantage. Things we don't like, such as Sower of temptation, engineered explosives, deed, maelstrom pulse, and many more. Plus if we hit crucial combo pieces. Not that CoV and Sphere don't solve most combo problem for us.

Simply though it is just more disruption and will definitely eat a counter spell up for us possibly.

Against landstill my nemesis when i play this deck, the idea of striping any where between (estimating) 7 or 13 answers from there deck is appealing. it really is match up dependent if it would be of any help to DS.

if valakut wasn't a land it would have potential being backed up by moon is what i'm trying to get at but moving on...

But there are more 'trap" cards in the set that I am unaware of that might be of use to the deck which was the main point of my post. Archive trap just looked very interesting at first sight but it by no means will ever shine in DS, but mixed with haunting echos, no wonder they reprinted Haunting echos in M10.

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And what happens if you mill them of 13 cards that are mostly irrelevent, I.E. brainstorms after you land a chalice at 1.
Theres just a good of a chance that you just made it easier for them to find what they want.