There is an Enchantress deck featuring Emrakul winning the local weekly legacy league in Dortmund, GER. Shit just never seems to lose....
Anyone thought of this yet?Emrakul in enchantress?
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There is an Enchantress deck featuring Emrakul winning the local weekly legacy league in Dortmund, GER. Shit just never seems to lose....
Anyone thought of this yet?Emrakul in enchantress?
I don't see what more Emrakull brings than the kills already used in the deck, except that it's not an enchantement.
Ok it gives you a free turn if your hardcast it, but with the deck at the time you can play a 15cc spell you should probably already be winning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
I have had very positive results with Emrakul in my build. I added it when it was first released, it hasn't left my deck yet. It helps against Grindstone decks, countertop, and the mirror. I have even put it into play from an opponent Show and Telling me. They didn't expect it... :laugh:
Against Grindstone you have the Confinements, against countertop the Cities/Replenish/blue hate, against mirro Aura of Silence... Do you really feel the need for Emrakull when you have 15 manas ? Aren't the kills already used enough ?
Emrakul seems pretty random without a tutor. The enchantment win conditions can be found with Sterling Grove.
I suppose we could all agree that Emrakul is an acquired taste amongst enchantress players. Some like it there, some don't...I prefer it as a third win condition, as well as a back up plan.
A back up plan in case of what? The way I see it, you'll never cast Emrakul unless you have your engined assemble and running well. Sigi otoh lets you slow roll enchantments and beat with a couple of angels even if you don't have your engine out. And you can fetch it, and protect it and recover it with Replenish, all without enchantress effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtercult
EDIT: In case of Show and Tell?
In case of Show and Tell, putting an O-Ring in play is my favorite choice most of the time.
Other thing, what do you guys think about running Dovescape as a win con ? I replaced Words of War for it and so far I like it more. I think it's better versus heavy control decks and can help you even with 1 enchanteress-effect. Kinda risky card to play but most of the time you're the less screwed. Fun card I always wanted to play ^^
Has anyone tested it ?
I dont know what everyone's fascination with alternate win conditions is. Sigil and Words of War are just so good at what they do. Words of War is probably the best wincon available. Sometimes even Sigil seems slow. The problem with Emrakul is that Emrakul is ONLY good as a win condition, whereas you can drop Sigil or Words earlier to get some tokens or burn out some annoying creatures.
Anyways, in other news:
1) I hate Chrome Mox. I tried testing 1 Chrome Mox and 1 Lotus Petal as my two accelerants and I always wished my Chrome Mox was a Lotus Petal.
2) Moat is nuts. If you have budget constraints and cannot get a Moat that's fine. But please dont try to rationalize it with yourself. Moat is nuts. Moat has gotten me out of situations that cards such as Ghostly Prison or whatnot would never have.
3) The Zoo matchup is a lot harder than I thought. I played many games against Zoo today without any SB cards for them and I got rocked. Their creatures I can handle, but their burn to the dome hurts. Sphere of Law and/or COP: Red is definitely coming in. Probably Sphere of Law.
4) Duals suck. I dont ever want to run more than 1 Savannah (and the obvious Taiga/Plateau for WoW).
5) I playtested many games against storm combo today and using SB slots for combo seems like a waste of time. But that's just me.
I strongly agree on every point, let me comment on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sa17dk
Wincons: After a long time I caved in and accepted that Sacred Mesa is not necessary anymore. With the printing of Sigil and the departure of mana burn, WoW and Sigil do everything you want a wincon to do. Today people are more ready to face Emrakul than to get rid of a 5 CC enchantment with shroud. WoW and Sigil are so much more versatile, fit so much better in the deck and have so many more interactions than Emrakul that it is not even fun to compare them.
1) Agree, Chrome Mox sucks. Tested it and hated it so much. It's not worth to mulligan only to find them in your opening hand, and after the 2nd turn they are dead cards. Can't say anything about Petal since I've never tested them.
2) Agree 100%. 9 out of 10 times I drop a moat, the game is mine. It only got slightly worse now that there's a flying Merfolk, but many times that I dropped a Moat against merfolk, it was followed by concession.
3) Partially agree. Burn is the only problem like you said, but it all comes to the cards both of you draw, and the Enchantress player taking advantage of the Zoo player mistakes. Many Zoo players don't know how to play against Enchantress, therefore they think they'll have time to pay for Elephant Grass for a couple of turns and attack with their lonely Nacatl for a while, only to find out that 3 damage a turn for the first couple turns is not fast enough. It also depends whether they draw enough burn, and most of them won't mulligan looking for burn and would keep decent creature hands that fail against Enchantress. Also depends whether you draw extra removal like O. Rings and Lignifys from sideboard. Like in many match ups, Replenish is a house against Zoo, play your Elephant Grasses and Confinements like fogs and recycle them. Bring back that Confinement tat you used as a fog, plus that Moat that was destroyed by Pridemage, together with the Grove you used to fetch it, and that's a game. Through practice you can make Zoo a very favorable match up.
4) Spot on. I started playing with Enchantress with the mandatory Taiga and only one Savannah because I only had one. Then I tried more but it didn't fit. You already don't have many targets for wasteland, so your non-basics will be destroyed, use them wisely. Losing one or two each game is manageable, losing more than that becomes a real hinderance.
5) That's the most difficult decision I still have to make about the deck. Should I try harder winning the combo match up or just say fuck it and improve the rest?
1. Tested against B/R Goblins for a long time yesterday, and I gotta say its one of the more difficult matchups because they are one of the few decks that can actually attack Enchantress's manabase (not to mention tutoring Warren Weirding to kill my Argothians). Ports are an absolute beating. If they go turn 1 Vial and use all their mana porting shit, and use Vial/Lackey to get all their gobbos in play it's incredibly difficult. For that reason, City of Solitude has actually been really nice against them.
2. I like only having two wincons. Going up to three doesnt solve the problem of losing to Earwig Squad anyways, and I definitely dont want to use precious MD slots by going up to 4 wincons and clutter my hand. If I were to run an additional wincon beyond my 1 Sigil and 1 WoW, I would much rather run a 3rd Replenish. I've found that Replenish is basically a win condition, as casting it after juggling a bunch of Elephant Grasses and Confinements and other countered enchantments basically locks them out.
3. Warmth is pretty neat for Zoo and Gobbos (since it can come down much faster than Sphere of Law) but I never seem to draw it =/ Maybe I should dedicate 3 slots for anti-red instead of just the 2 Warmth?
4. I want to try 2 Leyline of Sanctity in the board.
5. I need to figure out how to board against Countertop. I usually take out 1 Lignify, 1 Ground Seal, and 1 Solitary Confinement, but I want to bring in 2 Choke, 2 Aura of Silence, and 1 Replenish. Any thoughts?
Here's the list I've been using/testing:
4 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand (should probably be a Wooded Foothills but I've liked it)
9 Forest
3 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Plateau
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Wild Growth
2 Lotus Petal
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Replenish
4 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Moat
2 City of Solitude
1 Blood Moon (so goood)
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Lignify
1 Ground Seal (might up this to 2 and drop 1 Solitary Confinement)
1 Words of War
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
//Sideboard
2 Choke
2 Aura of Silence
2 Runed Halo
2 Karmic Justice
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Ground Seal (if I go to 2 Ground Seal MD then I'll have to figure what to put in this slot)
1 Replenish
1 Humility (havent used this yet...)
2 Warmth
Yep, I dont board for combo. As you can see, I'm not really a fan of the highlander versions of Enchantress (the mass silver bullet + tutoring lists) because I've found that they take too long to set up, and if something gets countered it hurts a lot more. This is part of the reason why I want to increase the Ground Seal count to two. The only other singletons are cards that are worth taking the time and card disadvantage to tutor up because they win you the game immediately or prevent you from instantly losing i.e. Moat, Lignify, Blood Moon, and the wincons.
I think every Enchantress deck should have a Moat EFFECT, but that doesn't particularly need to be the specific card Moat. I run Dueling Grounds in mine. It's 3 casting cost, GW is EASIER to make than WW, and it stops fliers. It works great in my set up because I also have Martyr's Cause. And my deck is able to run Martyr's Cause because I start generating creature tokens immediately, not only after Enchantresses are in place (but I agree with the common sentiment that Enchantress needs to stick an enchantress effect to win). Martyr's Cause also makes burn to the dome completely futile, practically dead card draws. It slows the other player down to a crawl, just the way Enchantress likes it.
The last time I brought up Martyr's Cause people screamed at me CONFINEMENT!, but Confinement requires a lot more set up than Martyr's Cause.
And again, Squirrels and Faeries are a lot easier to generate than Angels and Shocks. And when you have enough of them, it doesn't really make a difference what they are.
No, youre wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by jiazhouhuaqiao
Dueling Grounds is a sideboard card at best. Sure, Dueling Grounds is nice against swarm decks, but Dueling Grounds doesnt stop a 5/6 Tarmogoyf or a huge Knight of the Reliquary from swinging. You wanna know what makes dredge cry? Moat + Sterling Grove. Wanna know what dredge does about Dueling Grounds + Sterling Grove? Swing in with a 15/15 troll.
Also, FYI, Enchantress isnt the only deck that runs Moat. There are lots of U/W/x control decks that run Moat as a silver bullet/bomb card.
I dont want to even think about all the terrible cards you'd have to run in order to make Martyr's Cause work.
IMHO, the best Moat effect without actually running Moat is Worship. It's true that without Sigil / Mesa / Hoofprints of the Stag / Spirit Mirror / whatever token-generating enchantment you can think of, we have only 4 creatures, but most decks can't kill them anyway. It should be just as effective as Solitary Confinement against aggro, aggro-control and burn. I can only think of Loam decks with Devastating Dreams and cards like Volcanic Fallout or Warren's Weirding that make you think why you didn't ask anyone for Moats rather than playing budget cards.
I'd like to think you are right, and sometime ago you actually were. But nowadays the numbers of sac effects like Edict, Innocent Blood (due to Progenitus, Emrakul etc) and sweepers like E. Explosives, Firespout etc make your Argothian quite vulnerable. I think it might still be a viable strategy, but not as safe as one would like it to be. Much better than Martyr's Cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonex
Oh how I wish Spirit Mirror was playable, such an awesome card!
A Sigil that costs GG1 and works with all your spells, for starters. Which lets you get tokens for Regrowthing Regrowth and instant tokens for casting Enlightened Tutor.Quote:
Originally Posted by sa17dk
RE Worship: 4cc, too risky, I'd prefer not to be at 1 life in the first place and you still die to life loss.
I don't get what Sigil you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by jiazhouhuaqiao
Well, my Legacy is pretty much done until next year. Didn't do very well overall as far as what I expected. Enchantress is a very very unforgiving deck, I think every tournament I played in I threw away a game I could have won otherwise on a mistake so small most players wouldn't even notice they made it. I average punting one game a tournament which actually isn't too bad considering how retarded the deck can get at times, and averaging around 6 1/2 hours of sleep the night before a tournament doesn't help. I suggest unless you have iron nerves and practically never make play errors you pick another deck. Out of all the decks I've played ever Enchantress is probably the hardest to pilot through a large tournament. First off, one mistake is often a game loss and this deck gives you more chances than any other not only to misplay, but to get penalties for missed triggers. Second you can count on 90% of your matches going at least 40 minutes. You have to be very careful for many things outside of playskill that can cost you a win, namely missed triggers and slow play. Anyways I'm not going to write a primer but here are several things I picked up over the year that could bring your Enchantress to the next level.
BTW most of these things apply to large tournaments more than anything, small events are a different breed.
1: Blood Moon is good and belongs in the MD. It can just win you games so hard. First off you don't need non-basics as bad as most decks since you run lots of basics and Wild Growth + Utopia Sprawl. Blood Moon in an opening hand is crucial, I've had so many games where I dropped a turn 2/3 Blood Moon after some careful fetching and just shut people out of the game. The mere threat of Moon if they already know you have it causes misplays all over the place. Most of our worst control matchups also tend to run lots of non-basics and fetches. Good stuff.
2: Vexing Shusher is the best anti-blue sideboard card available. Dovescape + Vexing Shusher breaks the control game wide open and owns the mirror. I've never lost the mirror or to a Control deck post board except that damn 4x Deed Jacestill deck since every card in their deck is an absolute bomb against us. Dovescape is also bomb against Combo, sure it costs 6, but if it lands the game is so over. I've won vs. impossible matchups with 2nd turn Solitary, 3rd turn discard Dovescape, 4th turn Replenish. If you don't have Dovescape in your SB you are doing it wrong.
Meh, I'm tired more later.
You say Blood Moon in an opening hand is crucial... How many of them do you run?