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What do you guys think of the new walker, lord wondgrace?
Although it competes in another league because of its 5cmc, I think it might be worth trying as sideboard card. Obviously, the first two abilities are perfect for the deck. I also like that it destroys permanents and has a win condition as an ultimate, this can help remove permanents with more than 3cmc like eldrqzos, leyline, humility etc which this deck struggles to remove. It also races jace decently.
Hello Guys,
I used to play 4c loam but took it apart because young pyro and 4c leovold wherent that great matchups
Is 4c loam in a good spot again now?
Is Niklas kronberger still on this deck?
Hey guys. So I’m pretty close to finishing putting this together (still need 3xChalice and a set of Bobs) and I’ve been doing quite a bit of research. One thing I can’t find an answer to is why do we run Rec Sage over Pridemage? Is Needle/Revoker that likely of a detriment to offset the lower cost of Pridemage?
Pridemage is a better mainboard card, because the floor on is its a 2 mana 3/3. However for a sideboard slot, Reclamation Sage is better because you keep the body after getting the effect (higher ceiling). They both cost 3 mana.
Personally I play both.
Hi,
@surface33 - Lord Windgrace is poop. :P In the past I wrote about planeswalkers in this topic.
@Irvin - I think is still good deck. Without DRS all maverick-like decks with kotr, goyf are better.
For example, in last MCM Prague I went 7-2, lost only on 7 and 9 round with both Omni-Show with tottaly porno hand. :(
I played the same list I show in the past. I thinked about - what to change and in the end I dont change anything.
@crowe_1 - I preffer Qasali Pridemage in mainboard.
In my opinion we have 2 way for SB: Thoughtseize + Surgical or Leyline on the Void + Golgari Charm, 2 diffrence package. I preffer first one to upgrade MU vs combo.
I saw a guy on mcm who played Krosan Grip, Vindicate, Kolaghan's Command in sideboard (more jund style), I test all of them but I preffer my list (more maverick style).
Thanks for the input!
Plugging Mats twitch Channel https://www.twitch.tv/matsole/videos/all and watch him try out Queen Marchesa in the board. It does some work, but im not too convinced it'll replace Garruck
How many assassins trophy does this deck want to play? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ff2828d79b.jpg
Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
I haven't seen the stream yet, but i looked at the MTGO lists and it looks like it's worth it. Not sure if it replaces Garruk completely.
Assasin's Trophy looks insane I'll propably play a 2/2 split of Decay and Trophy. Definetly better than Vindicate since it's an instant even though the opponent gets an Basic land. I lost so many times against Gurmag Angler, so i hope this is redemption-time for me.
Do you think people start playing more basics with that card in mind? Also should we add an another basic, for example a swamp?
4Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrplow25
There's no much reason to play Decay nor Vindicate when you can have this.
Delver is definitely a reason to still consider Decay, but a split favoring Trophy is probably correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastaboi
Thank you for the vids. I'm picking up the deck (just ordered the last few pieces I was missing) and this is very helpful. Any similar content is welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitend89
Plugging Romario then he has been playing a lot loam lately https://www.twitch.tv/romariovidal/videos/allQuote:
Originally Posted by Majd
https://imgur.com/a/3zteWiF
Also Knight of the Autumn is probably gonna replace rec sage in the board tho harder to cast through a blood moon
And through B2B and Waste/Port from DNT. I think not being able to cast it sometimes would happen more often than wanting to use other modes, so I'll stick with Rec Sage for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitend89
I'm new to this deck and when I went to make some customizations, I found that the shell feels fairly inflexible. It seems like the required components are:
4 Confidant
4 Knight
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 mox diamond
4 chalice of the void
3 liliana of the veil
3 punishing fire
2 green sun's zenith
2 life from the loam
1 sylvan library
4 flex slots
26 land
A total of 4 slots for your choice of Abrupt Decay/Assassin's Trophy/etc, any of the common flex creatures (Tireless Tracker/Ramunap Excavator/extra Scavenging Ooze/etc), and whatever spice you love. Not much room!
Is anyone else having this issue? Am I wrong about the required components?
The main deck is very tight I feel there's 2 flex spots max. As for AD or AT I'm gonna try 3/2 ad/at
What do people think of the Queen Marchesa tech that Bob Huang is running?
When is it brought in?Quote:
Originally Posted by hovercraft
Bob was playing 1 maindeck as an extra creature and card advantage engine. I've never played with any Monarch cards before but it does seem strong. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/313453309
Matthew Vook won the SCG with Loam on the weekend, good to see the deck in the spotlight and doing well. He played very well.
Queen Marchesa, long may she reign, was also in the main deck of the other Loam deck that made top 8. I picked up a copy to try out. We’ll see how it goes.
I picked one up and an Ajani Vengeant for the SB as I've never tried that before either. Will probably grab a Nissa VF as well to try in Garruk Relentless spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Fortune
Hi,
Anyones tested Assasin's Trophy, Knight of Autumn, Vrasha, Queen of Golgari in 4C Loam?
After some casual games I can say:
Vrasha, Queen of Golgari - is shit, worse vindicate, pseudo draw, ulti don't work. Worse than Chandra, ToD.
Knight of Autumn - In my list I'm playing maindeck QPM, I don't think I'm need another 3 CMC spell. In list with Reclamation Priest I 100% percent i want do upgrade for new card.
Assasin's Trophy - big ? for me, in legacy, in aggro loam this card can't be subtitute for AD, too much free counter magic, but I think I can replace Maelstrom Pulse with it without problem. After some matchs I never need Assasin's Trophy in first game. I need more test for this card. Is good, but in competetive games I'm see only 5 serious target for it : Jace, Teferi, BSK, Angler, Madrill, other things is totaly random like eldrazi, big eldrazi and some random things.
I saw last online 4C Loam lists.
Nissa, Vital Force is back, in past I'm test her but in Deathrite Shaman / 4C control era i change her for Elspeth, Knight-Errant. 1 CMC cheaper but include WW in cost. Meaby is time to back to Nissa, what do You think? Please show me all + and -!
I checked this list:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1365242#paper
Its look like test-list.
Its look ok but I see only 1 bayou.
In main:
Cabal Pit + Ghost Quarter + Wasteland = missing Ramunap Extravator?
2 Abrupt Decay + 2 Assassin's Trophy = ghost quater to negate AT defect.
Knight of Autumn in main, same role like Qasali, in main Qasali look better but I need more testing. 2 cmc vc 3 cmc, now its 50-50, in some situations one is better than second.
In side:
Tabernacle - 4C Loam dont need it, i tried it, log time ago, and never return.
Liliana, the Last Hope - I move her to main, is so good.
Ajani Vengeant - poo
Queen Marchesa - I dont feel it, random guy, silimar role to flip garruk
Vraska, Golgari Queen - poo
I miss in that list - Stronghold, Nissa or other effect to back my creatures to hand.
I think - assasin is more better if you playing blue to protect assasin or counter big spell like jace thank basic you gave to opp.
I split the finals of 109 player cash tournament last Sunday. I played 26 lands shaving second Bayou, MD Queen and 3/1 AT/Decay.
During the tournament I killed two Sneak Attacks, multiple Anglers and a couple of lands with Assassin's Trophy. I got it countered only once, and even then it was profitable for me as I got to resolve KotN thanks to that. However, there were times when I had to wait to use AT to play around Daze or other counters, and once I killed my own chalice@2 with Decay and went for the kill. Giving an extra land to the opponent early on was relevant more often, though not game breaking. I lost one game against RUG Delver when I went for their only land but they had put an Island in their deck just for the occasion, a gamble I couldn't have taken with Decay. And another time I gave 2nd mountain to UR Delver player enabling Fireblast, which I could have played around had I realized the possibility.
In the end, 3/1 split felt reasonable, but I could see doing 2/2 as well. I believe either is correct.
Queen was grrreat. I always thought the deck needed more gas in topdeck mode, and Marchesa delivers. I could see another one in SB as it strikes me as a one of the better cards for mirror.
Replaced Sage with KoA and was glad to bring Knight against mentioned UR Delver. I ended up playing her as 4/3 both boarded games, so even the 3rd mode was more relevant than I originally thought.
I think Tabernacle is better SB card than all the alternatives. You can play the deck without, but if you have access to one, you should have it in your SB.
I didn't face any Miracles and the tournament was surprisingly low on it. If Miracles is big in your area, I think Nissa is the single best card against it, but other alternatives may be better against other slow decks.
I also had two Containment Priests in SB to hedge against Sneak and Show. I never saw them but want 4-0 in games even without (pure skill, I know). I'd consider 1/1 split with Canonist if the lists will tilt more towards Omniscience.
+1...Quote:
Originally Posted by razamarth
Going to play my first legacy-tournament since GP Birmingham got a couple of questions:
How's the Shadow Match-up?
I got no access to Tabernacle, what should I add to the board?
Toxic Deluge is usually the recommended SB replacement without Tabernacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiJap
Hey guys, so I played the Legacy 1k Tournament with this list and ended up 6th (30 players):
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
1 Badlands
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Queen Marchesa
3 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sylvan Library
3 Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard:
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Golgari Charm
1 Choke
3 Leyline of the Void
Round 1 vs Enchantress (2-1):
I played my first round against Enchantress. I knew the deck just from my friends joking around, but never checked the lists or played against it. So I tried to figure out which are the key-spells of their deck and mostly let them do the shenanigans, unless i drew any removal or Creatures and tried to apply some pressure. Game 2 and 3 I started with Turn 1 Chalice into turn 2 Sylvan Library. He didn't draw anything good so i killed him Game 2 with 3 KotR's. Game 3 was grindy I needed to draw an Assasin's Trophy & Golgari Charm in extra-turns and drew them. Otherwise it would have been a draw. Queen Marchesa was involved in G2 & G3 drawing me around 16 cards (6 in G2, 10 in G3)
Round 2 vs Esper Stoneblade (2-0):
Second Round against Stoneblade. Game 1, I mulled to 6, kept a hand with 2 KotR, 1 Bob, 1 Mox Diamond, 1 Wasteland & Fetchland. I beat him down with 3 8/8 Knight's. Game 2, I kept 2 Mox Diamond, 2 Chalice, 1 Forest, 1 Badlands and 1 KotR. He thoughtseized me taking the Knight and I drew a land and played turn 1 Chalice. I drew Queen Marchesa on turn 3 and played her and the game was mostly finished. He had 2 TNN's but they were too late, because Monarch drew me 6 additional cards before the first TNN was casted. Vraska from the Sideboard was also hugely involved in G3 with upticking (sacked a land once to draw) and -3 their chumpblockers and their Gideon of the Trials.
Round 3 vs Dredge (2-1):
Third Round versus Dredge. Played against a friend, who is mostly known for playing Affinity in Legacy. I naturally drew ScOoze on turn 2 and it decided Game 1 with removing his Dredgers, Ichorids and Bridges. Game 2 I had to mull to five (seven had only Wastelands/Spell but no Leyline, 6 was 6 lands), had 3 lands, leyline, GSZ and a Mox Diamond on top of the Deck. He assasin's trophied the leyline on Turn 3 and Drew a Faithless Looting T4 which literally had everything he need to kill me. Game 3 kept a hand with Lands, Mox, Chalice and Knights. He did remove my Leyline again, but had 2 lands and I killed him with 3 KotR and Dryad Arbor. His draws were unlucky for him in this game.
Round 4 vs Eldrazi & Taxes (0-2):
Had the chance to basically drew the next 2 rounds and be safe in Top 8 but i got paired down. The match was fast, kept solid hands in both games, but flooded in Game 1 and didn't draw a second white source after he wastelanded me in Game 2. Can happen sometimes.
I drew Round 5 to secure my Top8 spot.
Top 8 was: Hardened Scales Affinity, Lands, Eldrazi & Taxes, Shardless BUG, RUG Delver, Aggro Loam (me), Sneak and Show and Dredge
Top 8 vs Shardless BUG (0-2):
I played against a good friend of mine, we played the same Match 2x before the tournament and we think it is in favour for BUG. He Hymned me 3x in both Games and always hit the 2 best cards in my hand. Game 2 had a very good hand and then flooded really hard.
Overall I'm really happy in how I played these Games, this deck in general and Sideboard was fine for me. I slammed Nissa, Vital Force as my replacement for the Tabernacle-slot. Expected lots of Miracles and UW control, but I didn't see anybody playing it. I'll going to replace my Nissa with a second Queen Marchesa (propably) since I think this card is amazing (card advantage and good body in one card) and can propably swing a lot of games. I was thinking about playing a 3-1 split of Decay/Trophy but stayed at the 2-2 split, which I think is fine too. I cut Barren Moor for a Swamp, because I expected an uptick on Trophy surrounding the hype of this card.
If you got any questions, feel free to ask.
I played the Nerd Rage Gaming 2k Championship Trial in Milwaukee this weekend:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Badlands
1 Barren Moor
2 Bayou
1 Cabal Pit
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Life from the Loam
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Savannah
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scrubland
1 Sylvan Library
1 Taiga
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Assassin's Trophy
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
1 Assassin's Trophy
2 Containment Priest
2 Golgari Charm
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Round 1: UB Shadow (2-1)
I don't remember all the details of this. I'm pretty sure I lost the first game. Won the second on the back of a T1 chalice off a Mox Diamond with a backup Chalice (that I had scryed to the top) after he removed it with a Ratchet Bomb. The third game was won after a couple misplays by my opponent. He failed to notice that I didn't have the mana to cast the Knight from my hand that he saw with a Thoughtseize, and didn't Extract the second GSZ from my hand after taking the first. This allowed me to leverage the mana I did have into an eventual Green Sun's for a Scooze to challenge the Liliana, tLH that he dropped and to keep my life total high. Leyline of the Void out of the opener was clutch in this game because it kept him off Gurmag.
Round 2: BUG Control (2-1)
Relatively straightforward control matchup. The BUG deck here was far less vulnerable to chalice than I had hoped, because he had multiple Assassin's Trophies. He was, however, unable to keep up with constant stream of threats from Bob/Library once it was assembled.
Round 3: Grixis Control (2-0)
Game 1 I just grinded him out with PFire from behind a chalice. Game 2, similar story as the previous round. Chalice, Library, Bob for unlimited access to threats.
Round 4: Grixis Control (0-2)
Game 1 was lost because I couldn't keep a threat around and lost to Angler. Game 2 I made a significant sideboard error and didn't account for the fact that the move in Grixis (and Legacy) in general is to play more basics, which allows Blood Moon. He stuck a Moon and K-Commanded my Mox for the lock, despite the Abrupt Decay in my hand.
Round 5: Elves (2-0)
Game 1 - Cabal Pit. Approximately 10 elves were thrown in. Game 2 - Early Golgari charm on his Glimpse turn, followed by Tabernacle and Knight to find the Cabal Pit again.
Round 6: ID (opponent was another Grixis Control)
QF: Grixis Control (0-2)
Game 1 - I couldn't stick enough threats and lost to Lili ultimate. Game 2 - Same story. Couldn't find a Punishing Fire despite loaming 2/3 of my deck. Lost to Liliana ultimate once he started Fatesealing with Jace to stop me finding Abrupt Decay or Assassin's Trophy in time.
Overall, the deck is still great. Plenty of flexibility, but still feeling a little light on CA. I want to start experimenting with some changes to better control the large threats (Angler) and improve resiliency against removal. Basically:
-4 Dark Confidant
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Murderous Cut
+1 Gurmag Angler
-1 Karakas (to SB)
+1 Sejiri Steppe
I'd appreciate any thoughts.
You found it light on card advantage but want to cut bobs? Bob is a key engine for this deck. Just play an extra trophy/Vindicate if you want more answers to Gurmag. I also think the Karakas is key for SnS/Depths types matchups, can steal a win G1 with it.
How are you sideboarding vs Grixis? It's a tough match but you should be favored. Your current SB is lacking on big threats to bring in. Stuff like Queen Marchesa, Ajani Vengeant, Nissa, VF, New Vraska, Garruk Relentless, etc are key in these long grindy control matches.
Planeswalkers seem nice, but wouldn't a Ramunap Excavator and a Volrath's Stronghold suffice to beat grindy matchups?
I don't remember exactly, something like:Quote:
Originally Posted by hovercraft
Leylines, Trophy, -1 PFire, -1 Bob, -1 Realms (didn't cast it all day, not sure if it's good or bad yet), -1 Decay (I think)
According to the Grixis players, I'm a favorite to win out of the gate, which felt true most of the time. I feel like my losses were just bad luck (didn't play around blood moon, didn't draw/loam Pfire - obviously taking one out was questionable).
As for Bob, the rare occasions that he actually drew me a card instead of eating removal didn't really feel all that impactful. It was great speeding up a win, but I definitely didn't turn any games around by having him. I'd definitely rather have Library in nearly every case. Plus, removing him lets me consider Cut and/or Angler to improve the interaction and the threat quality. Perhaps I'm just suffering from, "if you can't beat them, join them"-itis.
Library is certainly great, and I can see wanting 2 in the main deck but I still feel like Bob is key to how the deck flows. He helps you find your answers in combo matchups, and even if he often eats removal or an early counter the raw card advantage he provides is hard to match. The deck has over 30 0cmc cards too. He can be trimmed sometimes when sideboarding against removal heavy decks though.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCSMage
Realms definitely not good enough I don't think. I find it's a card that looks better than it is. Ramunap is probably a better flex card with a similar effect which could be used there.
Gurmag doesn't seem like where we wanna be. I've been liking Queen Marchesa in the mainboard as a creature threat and card advantage engine. I feel like an extra Trophy/Abrupt/Vindicate will be better than Murderous Cut most of the time. Remember you have Swords in your SB to bring in for Grixis too, as you can trim chalices in face of Kcommand.
Anyway just my rambling two cents! Always great to see people Loaming
Yeah, after some consideration, I think I'll try the Queen. Just because I don't see much Depths or SnT doesn't mean I should warp the deck too much. I had never considered cutting Chalice, but that's definitely a solid plan.
If you don't see sneak you can definitely take the containment priests out of board for some more planeswalkers too.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCSMage
Hei menQuote:
Originally Posted by SwiJap
Conrads for the nice results in Lucerne!
Happy to see other Swiss Players on a beautiful Deck! Sadly i lost the win and in with my shardless BUG.
I was always addicted to aggro loam and now its time to play it again:)
I play also kinda a stocklist with some small differences and overall meta cards.
Here is my List:
// Aggro Loam
// 60 Hauptdeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
// 12 Creature
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Dark Confidant
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Queen Marchesa
1 Scavenging Ooze
// 1 Enchantment
1 Sylvan Library
// 7 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Assassin's Trophy
// 25 Land
4 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Badlands
1 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Swamp
// 3 Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Liliana of the Veil
// 4 Sorcery
2 Life from the Loam
2 Green Sun's Zenith
// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Queen Marchesa
// 6 Enchantment
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
// 4 Instant
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
// 1 Planeswalker
SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
Probably the first that comes in someone's mind if they see the list, No Maze and barbarian ring instead of cabal pit.
I'm not sure how good maze of ith is right now.. i just think it can be ok against death shadow or random big creature decks. i just don't like the mana lose against those decks. I see the Point that you can search the maze with the knight to block a big eldrazi or a other creature but i'm not sure how relevant it is in the end to make the mana base bader than without. Anyway the slot right now is the ghost quarter for it, cause i think its pretty nice the 5th wasteland in those match up i was talking right now and it seems nice with trophy in some situations.
I prefer barbarian ring over Cabal-Pit. it does the same and takes PW. I never had an issue with the mana to cast for example a Lili I just think to play one of those 2 cards is needed to take down some annoying creature right now.
I don't like to take the barren moor for the swamp, its actually a quit efficient card draw. I prefer to cut a fetch land cause that's less important and the swamp can also not be taken by wasteland.
I decided to take a split for the lili's. Not sure if it's correct right now but sometimes the last hope feels better than the lotv. Also it takes back knight or Bobs from the gy. i really like the split.
Sideboard:
the mass removal are always changing. I don't like tabernacle that much and it was never really played, i don't know why everyone plays it now. i prefer to have a real board clear.
I like the idea of a second queen marchesa in the sb. She's really strong! In my opinion better than a PW like ajani..
Also my overall though's are the most PW's are sometimes cool but not always good and more mana efficient. For example a 5 mana nissa seems strong in paper but it feels sometimes really narrow to play her. I prefer choke in the other walker slots cause they're less expensive in mana and are a easier blowout against every blue deck.
The only PW i like in the sb is a second lili of the Hope, she's just strong!!
I play 4 Leyline of the void to have a better edge on the mirror or against every gy based Deck.
For questions and thoughts feel free to post
Greets Pascal
Ignoring the issue of the slim number of available slots, has Lotus Petal or Ancient Tomb been tested as a 5th (or more) way to have 2 mana on turn one? Obviously casting Chalice would be the main objective, but an early Dark Confidant to recoup lost card advantage or fast removal vs tempo decks are also worthwhile reasons.
I've tried Ancient Tomb. The problem with it is it casts so few of our other spells, and we already pay life in a bunch of other ways. Chrome Mox is probably the best of these effects for us, since we want as much mana as we can get every turn. I've even played it in really combo heavy metas. Ultimately tho, having a turn 1 chalice is not so important as to lower our card quality for it.
Playing both Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox seems rough.Quote:
Originally Posted by apocolyps6
Perhaps a few Simian or Elvish Spirit Guides could work.
At least they provide a modest threat, rather than being completely dead late game.
Is there a 4c loam discord?