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did you see the new bolt?
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoi...nderous-wrath/
It may be the answer once for all to the goyf/knight problem. 5 damage for a red mana seems pretty awsome.
It may even gain more value if the deck plays chrome mox/pyrokinesis so it can be "used" even if it is in the opening hand
thoughts?
Hello to all,
Longtime lurker, first time poster. Today i took a mono red Goblin deck to a 23 person tournament. Finished 7th (3-2), while another Goblin-player finished 3/4th.
My list:
Land
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
14 Mountain
Main:
2 Siege Gang Commander
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Aether Vial
Other
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Warren Instigator
3 Tarfire
SB
2 Anarchy
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
Played against the following decks:
R1 Hive Mind/ Show and Tell
G1: I have some goblins on the field, but he attacks with Emrakul, after which i can't do anything, loss
G2: I start with Lackey. He pass, I attack and put Kiki Jiki into play and cast Piledriver. He does nothing. At the end of his turn, i copy Piledriver. Third turn I cast Chieftain and copy another Piledriver. My opponent stared at the board with a big grin as I declared my attack. Swing for the win.
G3: I do some damage, but it's no use; he casts Hivemind and some pact, i die
0-1
R2 R/ U Burn
G1: He wins the roll and starts with Goblin Guide and swings. I have a Knesis, but decide to wait till there is another target. Meanwhile I'm wasting some of his lands. I'm down to 12, when he cast another Guide. He swings and I take them both out. He only has two land, one of which is a Mountain. I manage to keep on porting it, while steadily build my army. He draws poorly; I win.
G2: He is manaflooded, but without any burnspell he scoops.
1-1
R 3 Affinity
G1: I am pretty new to Legacy, but my opponent is really new to Legacy. He mulls to five. I keep removing with Tarfire, Wasteland and Knesis, attacking with Lackey which he blocks with a Thopter. When I attack with Chieftain, Matron and Lackey, he makes a lethal mistake. He forgot the +1/+1 of Chieftain and lost his last blockers. After that, I go for the kill
G2: A swarm of Goblins seal the deal
2-1
R 4 Maverick with NO Pro-package
G1: The game is going on nicely, but I don't have enough removal. He, however, casts Progenitus and I die.
G2: The game turns into a grinding game. I remove some creatures, he plowes some creatures. I take some life, but it's not enough. He once again cast Progenitus, while having some blockers, being a Noble Hierach, Dryad Arbor and a Maze. My army consist out of Piledriver, Kiki, and some other Goblins. I also have two Vials on 2. He swings and takes me down to 11. I only have one turn left, so I start counting. On his EoT I copy Piledriver and start my own turn. I take my Vial to 3 and put into play a Chieftain and Sharpshooter, with which I take out the Arbor and Hierarch. I copy another Piledriver and declare my attack; he wants to use his Maze, but scoops when he finds out that each of my Piledrivers is 16/2.
G3: A classic case of Goblins for the win!
3-1
R 5 Esperblade (played by a friend of mine, who also wins the tournament)
G1: A long grinding game, but I win somehow. It's also the end of my luck.
G2: I remove creatures, he removes creatures. In the end it's not enough, he wins.
G3: I grab nothing and lose to a swarm of flying spirit tokens.
3-2
Some thoughts;
1) Chieftain was good, but not spectaculair. The +1/+1 was nice, but sometimes I was low on mana, especially when using Rishadan Port or using my Wasteland. It made me wish for a Warchief. Also; they both give haste.
2) Pyrokinesis main was really nice. Because having so much removal main, I only boarded little in all my matches.
3) I never searched for a Tarfire, so I was thinking to replace them with Lightning Bolt. It also helps to have no tribal instant against Maverick, i found out.
4) I never saw any combo and plan to change my sideboard to fight other decks.
5) Few people even bothered about Kiki-Jiki, which kind of suprised me. Did one of you also had the same reaction?
@ fimo; I talked with the R/ U Burn-player about Thunderous Wrath; he was planning to play it, because it was easier for him to set up this new 'miracle' (with the use of Brainstorm and/ or Ponder) It's maybe not even good enough as a 4-of, rather a 2-of. We could be wrong of course. Either way, I think R/ U Burn will see some play.
If you need to SB in CotV vs decks like maverick, delver and burn, what goblins would you side out for the matchup?
And do people play ports in MD. I think it really makes the deck slow/controllish.
For CotV, you can side out -4 vial or -4 lackey depending on if you're on the play or the draw. If you like having both, you probably want to just trim a few 4 ofs down to 3 ofs, particularly the higher CMC guys when vs. burn since the game is not likely to go long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels
I'm not sure siding Chalice vs. any of those decks is optimal as Burn's clock is only about 1/2 a turn faster than Goblins'. Of course it depends on what else is in your SB, but they've still got plenty of 2 drops and Fireblast, and most relevantly Smash to Smithereens from the SB for your Vials.
On Rishadan Port, I don't think it is wise to play in a list with 6+ RR costing Goblins (Chieftain, Warchief, Instigator). But in some lists the ability to control mana is very strong. I'll never forget tapping down a Dryad Arbor turn 2 to sneak a Lackey in.
Smart of you to think of running it with mox / pyro so that it isn't dead in the opening hand, but I don't think Thunderous Wrath looks all that different than Dismember. I would say that the Miracle mechanic on Thunderous is slightly less of a drawback than -4 life from Dismember, but both cards are killing x/5 and smaller creatures at instant speed. Just my 2 cents - play testing could prove otherwise. (Pretty sure Dismember got play tested to death tho right?)Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
That new bolt is much better in decks like RU(G) Delver. They can prepare it with cards like Brainstorm.
Yes, it depends a great deal on the match-up, but it also depends on your hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337erhosen
Game 1 on the play I will drop Lackey nearly every time. This forces your opponent to have an answer or risk giving you a pretty significant advantage. If your Lackey meets a Force of Will you are playing a control match-up anyway and will likely land your Vial on turn 2 which is huge against them.
"new Bolt" is bad here. We don't want to HAVE to cast the removal spell when we draw it, because T1 you want to cast Lackey/Vial, T2 cast Instigator, Piledriver, T3 cast Warchief/Chieftain, T4 cast Matron/Ringleader. AND we may want to use our removal on the eot of their turn. I don't think we can manage to dodge all those situations.
And well, Imo we'll have to start packing 4+ ReBs on the SB again. New Time Walk will screw hard with us.
(hm, maybe we can splash Blue, play it and Brainstorm... =p)
It is. I guess that library manipulation makes it great but that doesn t mean that it couldn t be beneficial without. I think that it could seriously compete with the lightning bolt sloths in goblins (if any). 5 damage straight in the face for 1 mana is 25% of the life total. Also, it is T1 lackey friendly as opposite to cards like goblin granade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
It not a 4-of but it may see some play.
I agree that Thunderous Wrath is just not what this deck wants to be doing. It is extremely inconsistent and Pyrokenisis, Tarfire, and Lightning Bolt are just so much better.
In other news, I'll be taking this deck to a SCG Super IQ in Fenton, MI this Sunday, so I'll be sure to take good notes and leave a tournament report here.
One thing I do need help with is my sideboard. I'm running the 4-of list with all the staples as 4-ofs and minimal toolbox and minimal removal.
Here's what I have so far:
4 Pyrokenisis
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4?
I'm looking to just concede the Storm and High Tide match-up, as I don't see them being a big part of the meta, but the combo I am expecting to see is Show and Tell. I have one Stingscourger in the main, and have tested well pre-board, but I'm worried about extending into Firespout in G2 and 3.
Also I don't know about the Burn matchup either. Can I bring in anything besides Jitte?
Is there anything else I'm missing?
I don't think that "time Walk" will give gobbos any trouble, blue deck is alwayas a easy match up, the big deal is always combos (and I don't think any combo will use that card, unlees they create an Pyromancer Ascension for legacy...)Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Against Burn you might want to side in Chalice of the Void. Chalice is also good against random Affinity Decks (set @0 on the play) and gives you at least some % for the storm-combo MUs.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337erhosen
I personally don't like Jítte, but that does not seem to be a point of discussion for you.
Maybe you should spend 2 slots on artifact hate.
And Merfolk didn't gave us any trouble before Coralhelm Commander and Kira.Quote:
Originally Posted by polar
And Stoneforge didn't gave us any trouble before Batterskull.
And Burn didn't gave us much* trouble before Flamebreak and Searing Blaze.
And Survival didn't gave un any trouble before Vengevine.
Well, I guess you get the picture. Things can change.
Let's hope this card is not the blowout I'm imagining it will be...
What is the last goblin card is that relevant and playable? Frankly, I can't remember, at least there is none for the last few sets. We can hope but with the theme of this set, I doubt so.
I wonder if it is more possible if they errata some old goblins cards listed in my previous post. Any better chances of that?
Warren Instigator and others in Zendikar.Quote:
Originally Posted by wert
Goblin Chieftain in Magic 2012.
Tarfire and others in Lorwin.
Regarding jrw's post on the page before I want to add two things:Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
(1) When interpreting those calculations you should note that is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that you will have used 3 or 4 fetches until turn 4. Statistically you will miss a landdrop on turn 3 or 4 which mean that you will have 4 lands on turn 5 (where jrw assumed it would be turn 4). Apart from that it is way more likely that you will have used 0-2 fetches until turn 5 (assuming you are indeed running 8 fetches. Less fetches decrease that chance on "thinning out" your deck before the first Ringleader). This means that the chances on drawing EXTRA Goblins out of a ringleader, compared to a situation in which you didn't have fetchlands are almost non-existent.
(2) jrw didn't calculate that we might have lowered our goblin-count before we play the first Ringleader with Goblin Matron or Gempalm Incinerator (the latter has a ~30% chance of NOT lowering our Goblin count).
What I want to point out is that you should not run fetchlands in order to thin out your deck. Reason should be:
(a) messing with Jace's fateseal.
(b) bluffing that splash-colors
(c) catching Stifles from unexperienced players (you can argue about the usefulness of that one)
(d) playing in an environment where lifetotals don't matter. (Enchantress, Stack, Hightide, SneakShow, HiveMind)
At last I want to revise what I wrote in the primer: having stacked multiple non-Goblins on bottom of your library should be kept in mind before using shuffling effects (Matron/fetches) but they should not influence the order in which you use either of them.
Is what I've said with pyromancer ascescion will born in legacy, or other stupid combo or a MonoU Aggro, is a lot of speculation, and this card can Borndead in legacy, like Mental misstep (ok two months to deal)Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Anyway, I'm thinking in a effective S against combo decks
I'm using this now
3 Mindbreak trap
3 Thorn of amhetyst(against Burn too)
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Relic of projenitus(Gw field)
3 Anarchy(GW field)
2 REB
CotV is better then Thorn agains combos?(I think TES and spiral, hive mind I test and CotV is Huge better)
I don t think that against G/W maverick it is worth to remove goblins from MD to give space to relic of progenitus. If you play relic they can easily dodge it and win in another ways. Every MD card you have is importartant against them and relic doesn t make a real difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by polar
Anarchy is better even though it is likely to costs 5 to cast since they started playing Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. The only 2 cards that cracks their deck are perish and cursed totem, all the others are bah, it can easily be that you will never be able to cast them or that they will dodge your hate. With 4 GSZ and a toolbox agains EVERYTHING, non-goblin hate is more likely to hurt you than them.
If you're worried about SnT then REB/Pyroblast should be in your 15. If you're worried about Burn, Chalice of the Void is good, and it's pretty great against a lot of decks in the field (Combo, UR, Zoo... not that anyone plays Zoo anymore).Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337erhosen
Also, 4 Pyrokinesis seems a bit much. It's not that great of a late game draw, so I'd probably onyl run 2 or 3 and open up a few slots for Artifact hate or wahtever you see fit.
Also, Jitte seems slow. One of the Sourcers recently placed 4th at SGC Indianpolis (I think...) and he had 2 SB slots for Zuran Orb just so he had a quick and easy Lifegain alternative. Didn't seem ideal, but if you want to beat burn a little life gain will go a long way.
Need some advices for my sideboard.
Fortunately in my meta there are few combo decks, so i´m more focused in Stoneblade, Bant and Maverick.
Right now I´m using this sideboard:
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (run 1 Mainboard too)
1 Stingscourger (run 1 Mainboard too)
3 Pyroblast
1 Goblin Tinkerer
2 Anarchy
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (good card against Lingering Souls, that is gaining popularity)
4 Graveyard Hate (right now i´m using 2 Faerie Macabre, and 2 Relic of Progenitus. But i´m thinking of using a 4 off anyone of them. Which one is better in your opinion?)
Thanks for your help.
P,S - Sorry for bad english