That's what I was meaning when i said "raw power"
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That's what I was meaning when i said "raw power"
From the GP Lille trial winners:
4 Griselbrand
2 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island
SB:
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Deathmark
2 Pithing Needle
3 Dark Confidant
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
3 Leyline of the Void
Well isn't that an odd list...no white producing land. 2 Reanimate, 4 Griselbrand, 2 Children, no MD Tendrils, 4 Thoughsteize...some of those choices look odd to me. And the sideboard, 3 Leyline...Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivanGoat
Seems like this list would be pretty sweet against Miracles though.
I like it! I'll never play with MD Tendrils again, myself. Half of the time, a pre-attack Entomb -> Shallow Grave will let you attack with Griz and Emrakul for lethal, and the other half, you find Children of Korlis and should be able to go infinite into a hardcast Emrakul. The only reason to MD Tendrils is if you don't like going infinite, so my suggestion would be just to practice goldfishing the hardcast Emrakul route until you're comfortable with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by alaska
4 Griselbrand works well with the 8 discard spells, and 4 Thoughtseize is nice with the 4 Cabal Therapy, though I wonder if that combined with the Git Probe represents too much life loss. I guess you just have to be willing to play Probe for U sometimes. 2 Reanimate and 2 Children seems somewhat excessive as well. Without Scrubland or Tundra I would kick the Children down to 1.
Also, is 4 Goryo's Vengeance so bad?
I've run into so many situations where main deck Tendrils has won me a game that I would have otherwise lost that I would be hard pressed to cut it. I don't have statistical data so I realize that it is anecdotal, but winning without needing to attack beats some random decks out there that might otherwise shut you down as well as just natural mini-tendrils will sometimes buy you enough time to get there. I've also once (so this probably isn't relevant) used tendrils to gain life and draw more cards after attacking with Griselbrand when they had gained a bunch of life in order to find pieces to go infinite to kill them.
Also, I don't like the 4th Goryo's because it doesn't reanimate Children and I don't want my hand clogged with too many reanimation spells. I'm skeptical that >8 reanimation spells is correct given the amount of cantrips in the deck. Entomb/Griselbrand + Discard is the tough part to find. I already find myself shuffling back reanimation with Brainstorm as it is.
Just my opinions though.
Interesting on Tendrils. I haven't missed playing without it, but I haven't used it in so long that I can't really judge whether I would've been better off at some point with it in the deck. You definitely have more experience Tin Finning than I do, so people out there should keep that in mind. But it seems like those are a lot of corner cases, and you also have to think about how often it's a dead card or would be better off being something else. I've definitely thought about the fact that my build requires the attack phase, but it hasn't bitten me so far, and again, you have to factor in the advantage of having one less "dead" card draw early on.Quote:
Originally Posted by .dk
Re: Goryo's, you're definitely right, it's about the non-Children reanimation. I was only thinking in place of the 2nd Reanimate. All in all, 7 total reanimation spells might be best. Probably 7-8.
Yeah, I mean, I can see why people cut it. Like I said, my evidence is all anecdotal as I don't have enough captured data to really say. It's certainly possible that it would be better as something else, particularly in a well known meta-game. I like the flexibility of Tendrils in a wide open meta (like a Grand Prix) where you could literally be facing anything in the first 4-5 rounds or so. If your meta is well known to where you're confident that you will be very unlikely to run into those corner cases then by all means, cut it!
As far as reanimation goes - I've been like the 8 reanimation spell configuration that Koby pioneered a while back: 4 Shallow Grave, 3 Goryo's Vengeance, 1 Reanimate. Gives you 5 ways to reanimate children which seems to be about enough in my experience (more anecdotes :) )
I've won games with Tendrils alone that I couldn't have with any reanimation, for instance vs Ensnaring Bridge. At the end of the day, this deck is built as a Storm deck, and Tendrils is a natural low-risk win condition that also supports Griselbrand with life gain.
The only card I would play instead of Tendrils is Borborygmos Enraged. Same idea behind Tendrils, but can win with instant speed, can be tutored, has a decent body, but doesn't provide you with life and he needs more set-up than Tendrils. Furthermore, he can play around Canonist, since you can reanimate Grisel in our endstep, draw a bunch of cards, till you can discard Borbor and reanimate him in their upkeep and throw lands at their face till they are dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Greetings,
Kathal
Is it worth considering taking a page from Modern and adding nourishing shoal to dodge counters/burn and Worldspine for a beater?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Von
The biggest reason, why we (so the Modern version of this deck) are running Shoal is, that we don't have access to neither Lotus Petal nor Shallow Grave. Hence, we can't play the Childrens as a life gain source, which lets us draw more cards. Furthermore, it would take to much space to integrate (we are talking about at least 8 slots, probably even 9 since you want at least a single Borborygmos Enraged). You would have to cut the discard to get enough room to fit all those cards in, something you don't want to do in Legacy (the Modern version is like Belcher in Legacy, a Glasscannon combo deck which tries to overpower the opponents interaction).
Another point is, that Worldspine Wurm is worse than Emmi in nearly single aspect. The only reason why we are running Wurm is Shoal.
Greetings,
Kathal
I'm also on the pro mainboard Tendrils side, it's won me a lot of unwinnable games (vs Miracles with RiP, Energy Field, and CB on a g1 was a highlight).
As far as the no white source list, I've been wondering if it's not correct to cut the Scrubland for a 4th Sea, since I like to yolokeep one landers and being unable to cantrip sucks. I find myself not hardcasting Children enough to consider the change, but due to not having the extra Seas, can't test it. But, cutting a white source makes the sideboarded Serenity and Silence look bad unless we keep a land in the side (possible, since I run 14 card sb).
I'm in the same boat. I want a white source postboard, but I hate seeing Scrubland every time I draw it. Maybe I will just cut something from the board and throw Scrub in there. Might not hurt to have an extra land postboard anyway, extra mana is usually welcome when it comes to fighting through hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclimation
So... yeah... This deck is disgusting.
I just bought all the non-land pieces for this, including a good number of the cheaper foils.
I'm getting my first Underground Sea next week.
Please send help.
All the help you need our Lord and Savior Griselbrand can provide. Go forth, sacrifice children, and bask in his glory.
Basically, though. You're telling me that I get to play reanimator AND storm?
I've watched most of the videos out there on this deck, and it's just brutal how I love with it I am. Looping my deck for that extraturn Emrakul rub-ins is just gnarly.
But yeah, I'm excited to hang out with you guys and talk about this. (:
Welcome in a world of Madness :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by poolejx
@All, I had no time/opportunity to test some stuff (like Dark Petition, Borbor, DTT and some other rather crap cards) and to get a good SB. However, I have some time in the next few weeks, so I should be able to get some testing in.
Greetings,
Kathal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6JkfPiHPswQuote:
Originally Posted by poolejx
Most fun thread on The Source(TM).
Play my version with Burning Wish during GenCon weekend. Over the two events I played, record was 11-1-2 with two wins over Miracles during the run. Still don't think the deck is well positioned, but the BUG Delver decks have lessen in the meta in favor of more Grixis and 4 color decks which improves some matchups. I didn't actually lose very many games, most matches went 2-0 so it's not very interesting. In the Burning Wish version, I'm going to start trying Days Undoing in the sideboard. It will serve as the slot that Treasure Cruise occupied pre-ban. In the abstract it will act as a way to recoup resources in a grindy game.
Congrats on the results! Is it your same list from way back on like page 86 or am I just being outdone by this terrible search function?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomegrant