I've opened a church for Eldrazi.
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I've opened a church for Eldrazi.
Inviato dal mio LG-D605 utilizzando Tapatalk
I was happy with 4 Force of Will, 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Daze with 2 Boseiju on 20 total lands. Played 1 Fluster in my sideboard. I needed a Rav Trap (and would add it) and lost to Dredge without it (although, I could have easily taken the match if I drew even a little better; I paid a total of 19 mana to cast 3 Force of Will, 1 Trickbind, 1 Daze in a game vs Dredge).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragdoll
How where the Daze's? My guess is they can be 'free' counterspell on your combo turn and potentially protect you against stuff like Chalice or Hymn, but also using Daze's when your still setting up can make you a full turn slower.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
I have never had much succes with Boseiju. At best it did make my SnT uncounterable, but then it needed to have an Emrakul or it still wouldn't work. So i just try to T1 or T2 Defense Grid. Either baiting a FoW or resolving it FTW.
Your build looks pretty solid, but i found myself struggling to finish the combo. Or became really slow. Been back and forth between the Thoughtseize en Dream Halls builds. So far the Dream Halls build feels faster and more consistent at closing out the game. This is what i am at for now, but i need a lot more testing. Have spend more time into NicFit as well as some other decks:
The last change i made was Wipe Away for a Snap. Snap would have won thru a Meddling Mage (on SnT) against Shardless. If i EoT CWish into Snap, untap, Snap MM, untap, cast SnT > Omniscience, he was left with choosing either Emrakul, Cunning Wish, Lim-Dul's Vault or Enter the Infinite. I was holding EtI. Also i was holding my 1 Massacre i boarded in anticipation of MM, but he didn't have a plains (Deathrite Shaman).
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Omniscience
2 Dream Halls
3 Enter the Infinite
4 Show and Tell
4 Cunning Wish
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 City of Traitors
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
5 Island
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
Sideboard:
2 Defense Grid
2 Misdirection
2 Massacre
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Release the Ants
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Snap
1 Rushing River
1 Trickbind
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Noxious Revival
1 Intuition
I've recently countered Warping Wail, Chalice of the Void, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Vendilion Clique, Thought Knot Seer, Counterbalance, and REB with Daze. It's not a great combo turn protection spell, but it has the unique ability to let me continue to be proactive with thoughtseize, ldv, and cantrips and not simply lose to powerful 2 and 3 mana plays. 2 has been enough to see Daze often, but I'm not drawing multiple copies. It does set back the combo turn (I only run 2 Ancient Tombs), so it's not ideal. It's almost better postboard than preboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Interesting, Daze...I've considered it, but not tested it. Maybe next week.
Emidln, do you run 2 Boseiju main? Or is one of them in the board?
Went 4-2 drop (bad breakers, ride was leaving) the other weekend at the Mox Boarding House legacy preservation tournament. I lost to Burn (I found myself missing Leyline of Sanctity in the board) as well as Grixis Delver.
Game 1 of my loss to Grixis Delver was due to one of the worst punts of my life. I knew he had the daze, he had lethal on board, and I needed an extra land to play around the daze. I pondered the prior turn, tanked, and arranged them....incorrectly. Doh!!
Kids, don't be like me.
Game two I got absolutely slaughtered by cabal therapy, he cast it/flashbacked probably 6 or 7 times. Again, wishing I had Leyline.
All in all a positive experience, though.
I don't see daze as a suitable card for this deck imo. We want to play around soft counters as much as possible and Daze doesn't help. Against delver decks our best answer is defense grid.
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I made day 2 of SCGPhilly with this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragdoll
Lands:
5 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Boseiju
Creatures:
4 Emrakul
Spells:
4 SnT
4 Omni
3 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Impulse
4 Force
4 Spell Pierce
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Pyroclasm
2 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Trickbind
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Rushing River
1 Through the Breach
1 Boseiju
You might have noticed that I didn't list any Delver cards when I was talking about Daze. The point of Daze isn't to fight other Daze decks. It's to challenge 2 and 3 mana disruption without significantly affecting our early game of Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, SDT, Thoughtseize, and Lim-Dul's Vault. Defense Grid being merely useful against some (not all) Delver builds completely misses the point of not losing to cards like Eidolon of the Great Revel, Thalia, Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst, and Vendilion Clique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam
Sorry, my bad. So let me rephrase.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
In my opinion daze isn't that great for a simple reason: it makes our deck slower.
Whe need to constantly hit our land every turn just to keep digging or, if you play it, cast an intuition. At the moment the two best options are spell pierce, which can handle some problems, but forces us to stay mana open, or whe can play black and go towards the discard route. The downside of this second option is a weaker manabase and a significant life loss.
But, in the end, our primary goal is to reach 3 mana and cast ST and Daze works against us.
Whether to include Daze or not has been discussed ever since omni was a thing (back when Burning Wish was the kill). Florian Koch wrote in detail about Daze in his GP Ghent report: http://www.channelfireball.com/video...f-omniscience/ This is obviously not Cunning/Enter, but still worth a read.
I personally have never played Daze, mostly because I value not getting behind on mana way higher than answering a random threat. I've always thought that the REAL problem with the deck was Cunning Wish, because of its high variance. When you're sculpting in the early game it's just a very clunky brick that can't find S&T or Omni, and finding silver bullets for 3 mana is too slow in a lot of matchups. When Omni hits the board, it's suddenly the best card in the deck, but again "variance". The best thing about not playing CW though, is that we gain about 10 more slots in the SB.
I've been playing without CW ever since EtI was printed (note if you're not playing CW you shouldn't play EtI either) and have had great success (won a Scandinavian Legacy Open last year, although I'll give most of the credit to Dig) and top 8'ed the Danish Legacy Masters last October.
My tutor of choice has primarily been Intuition, I tested Lim-Dul's Vault long ago, and even though I love the card, I don't think it's right for this deck. It's insanely powerful if you know how to chain through your deck, combining two piles and then playing Brainstorm, but a card that doesn't replace itself will be mediocre more often than not. Lately I'm testing impulse (need more results). I splash black for discard/massacre and green for Xantid Swarm (this card is insane in a deck that can actually protect it with pierce/fluster).
KjU :tongue:
I like the idea of a Wishless build, because I too have found Cunning Wish to be extremely clunky in many circumstances. And Cunning Wish for Intuition is almost never fast enough. I'm going to do some experimenting with this build:
Any thoughts?Quote:
//Creature
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
//Sorcery
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
3 Gitaxian Probe
//Enchantment
4 Omniscience
//Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Impulse
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Misdirection
//Land
7 Island
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
Intuition and Impulse occupy the same space in the deck, so 4 and 4 might be too much. If you choose to focus on intuition then 3 sol lands is not enough. Intuition is better in your list since you're playing 3 emrakul. ATM I'm testing 3 Impulse, 1 intuition with 2 emrakul, 2 griselbrand (he's better against Karakas, Venser etc.). I might switch back to 3 emrakul, 1 griselbrand and play more intuition, but need more testing.
I would also play spell pierce r n, but not if there isn't any miracles in your meta.
KjU :-)
Thing in the Ice looks very interesting in OmiTell. It buys time, bounces creatures, kills opponents on its own, provides second angle of attack, helps to win under Chalice circumstances. Four spells are easy in fast in our deck, as we cantrip and counter stuff a lot before the setup.
I'm definitely gonna test it out. Think it's gonna end up as a SB alternate wincon against hateful matchups.
No matter what, i cannot agree on Impulse being the difference on OmniShow. Also i don't think a Wishless build is the way to go. Cunning Wish is obviously better then Burning Wish for being A. Instant and B. Blue. Next to this, (Cunning) Wish enbales a LOT of lines to finish the job at INSTANT speed, while dodging hate where a non wish build will brick HARD!. It does enable flexibility and manoeuvrability.
Impulse VS Lim-Dul's Vault is very clear to me... Ancestral Recall + Vampiric Tutor is LDV + Brainstorm.
Impulse is still in the testing phase for me, but I wouldn't compare it to Lim-Dul's Vault. LDV is a tutor where Impulse is more of a sculpting tool. I played LDV for a long time, and while it often won games with Brainstorm, it would quite often lose without it due to it being bad against aggressive decks, a horrible top deck and not replacing itself when you're low on cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Like i said earlier, when Omni hits the board Cunning Wish is the best card in the deck, but before that happens, it's a clunky brick that can't find SnT, Omni or Emrakul (in case they have taxing effects in play). Yes, it's fantastic against EtB hate (if you don't play it you MUST replace it with some amount of discard) but has a hard time defending against more common problems like discard, taxing, CounterTop, Canonist, enchantment removal etc. It's not a bad card, it's just high variance which I try to avoid.
KjU ;)
That card ephiphany may help this deck a bit. You probably need to run more sol lands, but lists from the past have ran 4 sol lands, thus making refilling your land possible now.
I think Epiphany at the Drownyard is simply not good enough. First, you need to cast it for at least 3 (4 cards) and that's just too slow. Second, it's a reverse Fact or Fiction which is waaaay worse, since you can cast it for 7 and still not get what you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
FoF is way better and people have tried it, it wasn't good enough. Cool card though ;)
KjU
Hi guys,
New in this thread, and a couple of questions. I'm still aquiring pieces for this deck, and still not sure on which build I will focus. The way I see it, there's two versions:
1. EtI-version
2. Post-DTT-version (so without EtI)
Both have their merits, but I tend to go for the first one. My questions concern this:
- would you always keep the 12-cantrips when building this deck?
- is Probe the easiest cut when making room for other spells?
- how many protection spells is enough? Right now I run 4 FoW and 3 Spell Pierce.
- is Personal Tutor justified as a two-of?
- should I focus on speed, so make room for Lotus Petal?
For reference, my list with proxies (it's my pet deck, so I take it slow with buying cards)
Creatures (3)
3 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
Spells (31)
1 Enter the Infinite
2 Personal Tutor
2 Gitaxian Probe.
3 Impulse.
3 Cunning Wish.
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm.
4 Preordain.
4 Ponder.
Protection (7)
3 Spell Pierce.
4 Force of Will.
Land (19)
3 Ancient Tomb.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
8 Island.
Sideboard (15)
1 ?
1 Intuition
1 Trickbind.
1 Wipe Away.
1 Flusterstorm
1 Rushing River.
1 Surgical Extraction.
1 Firemind's Foresight.
1 Release the Ants.
1 Noxious Revival.
1 Eladamri's Call.
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Personal tutor x2 looks too...harsh. Slow, card disadvantage and giving obivous signal to opponent. I suggest not to bring more than 1 copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Since you had set the number of Emrakul to 3, 1 Intuition in MD is a viable choice. In some MU it helps Show-Emrakul victory route.