Why would you run Cryptic Command main deck? If to combat Counterbalance, Spell Snare would be better. That's really the only reason that I can see.
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Why would you run Cryptic Command main deck? If to combat Counterbalance, Spell Snare would be better. That's really the only reason that I can see.
In a vacuum, Cryptic Command is the better card to deal with Counterbalance. You cannot always Spell Snare it, as your opponent has got his or her own permission.
The huge benefit of Spell Snare is its usefulness in other matchups: While Cryptic Command is only good against Threshold, balanced Fish and Dreadstill (and Goblins, but to a way lesser degree), Spell Snare shines against most of the format.
Legacy is a format dominated by cc2. That's the main reason for playing Spell Snare over Cryptic Command.
What is the usual turn this deck goldfishes at?
You should set-up your goldfish by Turn 4, but it's usually recommended that you don't combo off unless you have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanti
All I'm saying is that the cards Spell Snare counters are the strongest against this deck, and they are Thresh's only means of producing a decent clock (except for Mongeese, but not every Thresh/Fishlists plays those here). Only a single resolved Counterbalance isn't THAT much of a threat. It's not nice, sure, but the chances are you've found Cunning Wish by the turn Counterbalance lands, and that you can quite reliably bounce the card once needed. Once Counterbalance is supported with a Goyf, thist do start to get nasty. Confidant is even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep6er
EDIT: Let me put it this way: Counterbalance is a severe problem, but not one we can't overcome. The combination of boarding in Spell Snare and Wipe Away gives us a quite strong chance against that card, as well as giving us the ability of slowing the opponent down. I doubt Counterbalance is as bad as Meddling Mage back in the eariel Threshold days.
For my two cents, I still think scooping to Counterbalance is the only option the deck has. Not that this is a fantastic option given Counterbalance's prevalence, but trying to answer Counterbalance consistently isn't working. I'd rather dedicate a lot more effort/cards to putting myself in a position to win against other combo decks.
Against other combo decks you set up Twincast shenanigans, or use Remand and/or Spell Snare to slow them down, and if they are storm, they do half the work for you given you can go off and are not hit by Orim's Chant.
Scooping to CB is a horrible idea... Thresh is a HUGE part of the meta, you cant just have a game plan of "Well, I guess Ill just die" against them.
Why is Cryptic Command horrible against other decks? I'm trying hard to think of a deck not involving Tendrils of Agony that it's bad against. If nothing else, buying a turn to make a fifth land drop can be huge.
Its not bad, but, what would you replace?
Running 2 Opt/4th Remand/2 Spell Snare What are you going to take out?
-1 Remand? Remands are useful as hell. Opt? You need to find land drops. Twincast? This deck <3 that card. Spell Snare? Serves a better purpose in the meta.
@Kanti: In your situation, I'd absolutely add a third Opt in place of Twincast or Remand. You need those landdrops more than anything.
Remand has become weaker with Thresh being the best deck as it is the number1 target for Daze and more often than not, we try to play around Daze.
Spell Snare is not that great as it is a reactive answer. When they play that Counterbalance and you draw Spell Snare some turns later, you have a dead card. Cryptic Command is a bit clunky yet it won't ever be a dead card if you reach four lands. And drawing dead cards is the worst enemy of Solidarity. I'd only play Spell Snares again, if lots of black discard were to expect.
@IBA: Well, there's also dredge where it is to slow. Apart from that, you are absolutely right.
@everybody: I wanted to do a report from the sideevent of GP Madrid but (un-) fortunately I played day2 of the mainevent again. German Legacy Champs are in four weeks, hopefully I'll be able to write a report about those...
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Originally Posted by Bahamuth
I call bullshit. A single resolved Counterbalance could easily spell game. You're forgetting that even if they don't have the Top, their curve matches most of what you're trying to do to FIND THE CUNNING WISH. All of your Opt's, Impulse's, and Brainstorm's are well within their curve, and can be easily countered. By the time you've finally found your Cunning Wish, it's entirely possible that you've lost 3 or so cards to it (and that's assuming they didn't find the Top in the meantime, since they get to cast spells with impunity!).
I don't know who you're playing against, but Counterbalance is usually the earliest permanent that I would ever play. There's NO reason to wait. That card is stupid. You're neglecting to mention the newer five-color builds that also play Thoughtseize which is a beating.
The reason I stopped playing the deck was because I couldn't find a way to reliably beat Threshold. Cryptic Command/Spell Snare sure as fuck don't do it.
Meddling Mage? You're going to compare a one-sided Chalice of the Void to Meddling Mage? I would be ecstatic if all of the Counterbalances were Meddling Mages! Meddling Mage wasn't anywhere near as much of a problem as Counterbalance is. You know why? Because you could ACTUALLY bounce him. He didn't counter the very attempts to get rid of him in addition to keeping you from playing a majority of your spells. Counterbalance is vastly superior to Meddling Mage, and it doesn't sound like you realize that.
Isn't the best answer to a resolved Counterbalance a Cunning Wish for Wipe Away? It can get through Daze easier than Command, cannot be CB-ed (maybe if they have Trygon Predator, Jace, or something like that), and is never a dead card, as it is more than welcome to draw mid-combo, if mana is available. If that is the case why not run 4 Wishes?
Well, if you cunning wish for wipe away they for sure wouldn't CB it, because otherwise your wish would be countered =3
Yeah, I was originally referring to Cunning Wish.
Cryptic does seem good, and true, the 4th Remand hasn't been doing it's job. I've been doing better with Spring Tide for the sole reason that the draw and tutor suite in that deck is just loads better than this one, so the Opt should help me. I see it that on the 4th turn and beyond, Solidarity has the advantage.
Also, what would you cut for Cryptic?
I play Cryptic Command in the slots where other people run Spell Snares. Namely instead of Remand #4 and Twincast (I also run 3 Opt, 1 Peek). This is by no means perfect though, just my personal preference. If you want to run Command however, these two slots + Peek are the only slots that can be changed at all, at least that's what my experience tells.
I second this statement... find better ways to beat the rest of the field rather than CB... once CB hits it is facialQuote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Hey, I recognize you, weren't you already banned?
No, This is the only account I have ever posted on. I would be surprised if I got banned from this site, because as far as I know nothing I have posted has been in any way offensive.
But really what I said in my previous post was true. If you can beat everything except CB (as is the case here) then play the deck only if you feel a shallow CB field. More and more stompy and Loam decks, as well as some gob/affinity have been out there, so solidarity has all day usually.
You're right, you don't post anything offensive only flames, failed cleverness, and stupidity!!
The flames:
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Take everything this person said, and then do the opposite. Then you will win more.
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You forget the fundamental flaw of Affinity; only bad players like it.
But wait folks, that's not all, the failed cleverness!!Quote:
I just want to point out that you guys have completely defeated the point of combo in Legacy; win on turn 1 CONSISTENTLY (someone else spell check this for me ok). At least you spent way too much for a misprinted play-set of Infernal Contracts... NiCe?
And finally, the stupidity!!Quote:
I checked the math on this, and I am 100% sure that you spent way too much time figuring this out, and another 73% sure that you need to beer bong a 40 oz. of Old E and then hold your breath als long as you can, just to make sure you are still alive. Math is funny. So many squiggles and crazy symbols, and it all ends up useless when you are face to face with the girl of your dreams. Unless that girl is Leelee Sobiesky, she really likes the nerdy guys.
Thank you and welcome to The Source.Quote:
Land is colorless... noted!
EDIT: Hey I found another Flame!
m03... shame, shame
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But anyways, this is a deck construction forum, you guys wanted help and I offered it. If you can't look past your ego and read the small print, then you will get stuck behind badly constructed, poorly conceptualized decks that have no chance of doing well at Legacy Nats. next month. Maybe some of you are not that worried about that, but for some people it is important. A lot like Flash manifest as a consistently fast deck, this deck must do the same. If you do the math, then you are better to cut some draw fours for Death Wish, and maybe pay attention at your local tourneys while better players are playing strategically better cards. Good luck tomorrow night guys.