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You're actually a mana short to BW->U-bounce (costs 1RUU (GP+BW+Bounce)). Even Pulverize wouldn't really help (assuming you had another Volc) due to the contention with Rain of Filth.
I guess a better question would be why Lab Man is in the deck against UR Delver, the only deck in the format playing 10ish ways of killing lab man plus hasty threats and pyrostatic pillars/eidolons to get you if you pass the turn.
I've been doing a little testing with emidln's current list, and I have a question about how to side against Miracles. I've been thinking about it for a while, and I'm stumped--I feel like I have tons of cards I want to bring in, but not enough cards to take out. From the list, I want to side in Treasure Cruise, Cruel Bargain, all the Abrupt Decays, and the Tropical Islands. I don't know if I want to side in both Tropical Islands because Miracle decks not playing Wasteland means I might get away with such a low number of green sources, and I don't know what land I would cut for the second Tropical Island (some Miracle players randomly have Blood Moon so I don't want to take out both of my Islands; maybe side out a Volcanic Island?) Gitaxian Probe comes out anytime I bring in Cruel Bargain, and an LED comes out because the game is going to take long enough for me to find one if I need it, but past that, I'm not sure what the best cuts are. All I know is that I don't want to cut any business spells, but an argument can be made for shaving somewhere in your fast mana, your disruption (discard spells), or your cantrips. What cards would you consider to be the weakest ones against a Miracle deck?
that's a great question. i don't think i would have lab man in the deck after game 1, BUUUTTTTT i likes me a puzzle.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
You only need to side in 1 Trop because they don't have Wasteland so you don't have to worry about having your only green source Wastelanded. I run a slightly different list than Emidln's, but if I ran his I would SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namida
+1 Treasure Cruise, +1 Bargain, +1 Thoughtseize, +4 Decay, +1 Trop
-1 Chromatic Sphere, -1 LED, -2 Ponder, -3 Therapy, -1 USea(or Island if you know they don't have Blood Moon)
Someone wrote a pretty good primer on salvation: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...hland-tendrils
There are typos. The current list shows Rain of Tears, black version of Stone Rain. It should be Rain of Filth.
The current decklist and sideboard are spot on. Would like to find out your thoughts on replacing 1 Massacre with 1 Anger of the Gods or Drown in Sorrow as wish target to sweep Teeg, Thalia, Spirit, Canonist and Mom in a single spell instead of relying on Abrupt Decay + Massacre against Maverick?
I think that Abrupt Decay and Massacre is probably enough in the current meta, because the only thing you'd have a different mass removal spell in your sideboard for would be specifically Teeg plus another hatebear, and Teeg decks aren't popular enough right now for me to think that I need a dedicated answer for it. Also, if I were going to play a 3 mana mass removal spell, it'd be Virtue's Ruin or Toxic Deluge. You might have issues getting to four mana (thinking of Thalia) before an opponent gets a Jitte or other equipment active to basically shut off cards like Drown in Sorrow, so you want a card that absolutely kills hatebears dead.
I would play Toxic Deluge over Anger and Sorrow, since you can kill everything he has and it has the easiest mana requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by death
Greetings,
Kathal
If I were to play a second sweeper, I would play Pyroclasm. But I think Maniac largely obviates the need for it--since Maniac dodges Teeg and other hate just fine, which is what you're trying to accomplish with that spot.
Maniac has the benefit of beating other hate and enabling piles that otherwise wouldn't work. Doomsday with two cantrips was always awkward with just Burning Wish, but it's an easy pile with Maniac.
Doomsday with two cantrips (one being SDT) is LED, IU, LED, LED, BW and costs whatever your non-SDT cantrip costs. Without SDT as one of the cantrips, it's LED, IU, LP, LED, BW and costs your cantrips + 1. In general, winning costs 2 plus the cost of drawing into the pile and each additional cantrip nets you 1-2 mana.
Emidln, some tests against ug infect? Speaking of last ross' s list with 3 waste md 4 stifle.
I would tend to think you're advantaged in that sort of scenario. Infect is pretty much a bad tempo list with a possible combo finish, so, just play it like a tempo and keep your head up when you're Duressing so as to not get one-shot. You would end up having to rely more on basics and Therapy to clear Stifles/Invigorates, for instance, and be aware that you can possibly be "gotten" by Stifle on flipping top/cracking fetches.Quote:
Originally Posted by P-E
discarding is nice but it enables faster become immense
That is a 1-of, maybe 2-of, and you can generally play around it by timing discard correctly. For example, let's say I'm Therapying Stifles, if I do that on my combo turn, Become Immense doesn't Become An Issue. Or if you come in with a Probe and see only 1 creature turn 1, yes Therapying it gives them a card for Delve, but it could also buy you several turns. Trading discard enables Threshold in ANT mirrors, same concept, but if you're crippling them with discard, you're probably getting the good value regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by P-E
Also if you are on the Silence/Chant plan you can buy the time you need and they have to decide whether to blow permission to enable their "combo" or protect against yours. Then you get the extra man you need to ignore Daze and Spell Pierce.
As someone said Infect feels like a tempo style opponent and the Silences/Chants shine a bit more in those matchups. At least for me.
What would be the piles that I should learn by heart for a new person learning this deck?
Hi, I think you can learn single cantrip pile and double cantrip piles first, which you will use 90% of all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howishotgun
Here is a good primer for you to learn DDFT, which is on mtgsalvation, it also includes bounce piles (Chain of Vapor piles). Although recently most DDFT lists have dropped CoV for Lab Maniac, bounce piles are still useful to learn.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...hland-tendrils
has there been a discussion about silence vs. cabal therapy ?
I'm far from a Doomsday expert so i was wondering which kind of protection you prefer and why.
It seems that in a metagame without that many wastelands as it is now, a whitesplash for chants looks appealing.
I play a combination of the two. I have 3 Duress & 2 Cabal Therapy, and I play 2 Silence as the last protection off of a single Tundra. I made the decision specific to my local metagame, and would perhaps revise when taking the deck to a big tournament. But I like it a lot when playing locally.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix