Printable View
Thank you, for your feedback. I think the best choice for the remaining 4 creature slots would be 1 Sphinx, 2 Inkwell and 1 Stormtide Leviathan (as a substitute for Blazing Archon). The only creature I would really miss is Iona. Well, I'll test it out within future local tournaments. And then I'll see if it performes better than my current build.cheersQuote:
Originally Posted by Sturtzilla
@ Sandoz
That sounds pretty solid. I haven't really tested Stormtide Leviathan out too much. I run the Blazing Archon and with the addition of New Phyrexia, I will probably be trying to fit in Elesh Norn. I remember reanimating Iona all the time back right when she first came out, now I am usually tutoring for something else. Don't get me wrong, in some match ups she is game over, period. But against many decks she doesn't quite seal the deal. This might just be a trend due to the metas I play in. Good luck with your build. I am excited to hear about your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandoz
@ Everyone Discussing Mental Misstep
It is common knowledge that it can counter just about half if not more of our deck. But we still have Daze, Force of Will, and the potential to run Mental Misstep ourselves. We should be able to counter around or Duress, Thoughtseize, or whatever discard you prefer MM out of their hand. I think MM has the potential to wreck this deck, but if you are a relatively intelligent player, you will be able to play through or around it just like the current free counters and graveyard hate.
Would running two Underground Seas like ANT does hurt Reanimator's Dazes too much?
Exactly my point; couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturtzilla
@ Lull
I am not sure what to say about only running 2 Underground Seas. I run the following mana base for standard blue/black Reanimator.
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Underground Sea
3 Island
3 Swamp
I don't run any mana acceleration like Lotus Petal or Chrome Mox. I would be inclined to say that you should be okay, as long as, you play enough fetches and are careful in your selection of lands you fetch. Less Underground Seas means less mana flexibility. The one case that I could see as a potential issue would be against deck with mana denial plans. Decks running Wasteland could pose a problem in the event that you need the Underground Sea. On the other hand, if you are running two less seas you probably have 1 more swamp and 1 more island. So you might be better of facing deck with Wasteland in the first place.
@ NyxathidHorror
Thank you very much!
It would still be okay, but there is really no reason to cut Underground Seas like ANT does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lull
Ostensibly, both decks need blue mana early to cantrip and black cards to kill. But ANT is more reliant on having a large quantity of mana to go off, so getting Wastelanded hurts in that regard. It also doesn't really need that much initial black mana to go off because Rituals, Lotuses, and LEDs will provide them. Moreover, Reanimator will often want to be able to play Entomb while still having an Island to return to hand for Daze, which is never an issue with ANT.
Exactly! Same situation but sometimes you need to Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy on turn one, regardless of whom the target is. Having an Island allows for Daze activation while you are going full tilt for your creature. Everybody likes a little bit of protection. ; ) Like I mentioned in my last post, if you run enough fetches you can basically make sure you have an Underground Sea on turn one even if you are only running two. But ultimately you should ask yourself, "Why shouldn't I run 4?"Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
I'm trying to build the following list, but i have a noob doubt, when i have the emperion on the field can i use FOW or MM for their alternative cost? If so, i loose life?
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
3 Hapless Researcher
4 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
You cannot pay life when emperion is in play, so you can't use fow, fetchlands or misstep. As an upside, if you Reanimate emperion, you do not lose life since emperion is already in play when you should be losing life equal to itse casting cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingu
Thank you for the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
I think Emperion its not good enough, he cancels out the best permissions spells, against zoo where he should shine, the oponent can topdeck a swords/path and continue the beating, i'm testing Platinum Angel in it's place, not a great body to beat but a solid stabilizer.
So the obvious gameplan its to reanimate Jin-Gitaxias, fuel the hand with permissions spells and a way to reanimate Platinum Angel next turn to stabilize the table and start the beating, with Iona it's faster (duh) but i think it's way better reanimate the Platinum first to garantee that we don't loose to the table or a weird topdeck. I think that Jin-Gitaxias it's better than any other creature on reanimate (if he survive, this new counter helps a lot in this matter) because he prepares like no other the hand and put the oponent in topdeck mode, so for me there is no reason to run any number less than four. Give me your thoughts please.
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
3 Hapless Researcher
4 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Platinum Angel
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
how about adding Lotus petal, to speed up the reanimation ?
Im not to sure about this, it's nice to acelerate one turn but what would you cut? The deck becomes more fast but less consistent. On the other silver bullet builds the deck had to kill fast but in this build because of Jin-Gitaxias we have more of a combo/control gameplan, so i think we can wait one more turn for consistence.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsy
Nevertheless thank you for the idea.
Sideboard is my main councern, i play on a metagame with Dredge so there is lots of gravehate, BGW Junk, 4C Counterbalance, ANT/Teps and Affinity, recomendations with cards and how to sb are welcome.
if you read about 50 pages back you see the old list with mystical tutor I played witg lotus petal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingu
I only played 14 lands and 4 petals, why?
petal acts as a land and how many lands do you want after the second?
petal acts as a 1 use land, safe from stifle and wasteland.
After the second of course i dont want none, but i always want at least 2 permanently, and with the petal we loose that, other thing, i took a look on some of last year reanimator decks with mystical that top 8 in several tournaments and none had petal, the only aceleration was the single tutorable dark ritual, im not trying to flame you or anything but maybe your option of running petal was not the correct one, petal is great if everything runs smoothly, now if you can't get past a counter after breaking petal and then got wasteled, or could not get the 2nd land to exhume, it's pretty much game over right? You get extra speed but less consistence and i think the deck can afford going off a turn later.Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
I am not trying to be rude or anything but we just discussed this on the past page. Your posted decklist is a one card change from the SCG Reid Duke build. You have opted for a singleton one copy of Animate Dead over Thoughtseize. Otherwise they are the exact same list. If you have not read the article, which I bet you have... here it is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingu
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...In_Legacy.html
To reiterate my opinions on the deck, JGCA can be awesome but you must protect him. The inclusion of Mental Misstep can help with that. The question that I have would be, "With all of the creatures that we currently have, why would we selectively pick JGCA?" We have shrouders, lifelinkers, and cards that hose specific decks, why not pick them? Sure he generates tons of card advantage, but what happens when he gets removed before your end step and you are out cards, life, and probably the game? My testing has shown that he is promising, but not the end all creature that some claim him to be.
I also don't think that running 4 JGCA is a good plan. 2-3 would be sufficient with the tutoring effects this deck runs. That also lets you run more flexibility in creatures. I am also not a proponent of Platinum Emperion or Platinum Angel. Emperion turns off your ability to thin your deck by fetches, use Force of Will. This is dis-synergistic, which is generally bad. Both of these options are removed by StP and Path, which are very prevalent. I think that both Blazing Archon and Empyrial Archangel serve this slot better. Sphinx of the Steel Wind also can turn around many of the games where we would be facing down a horde of creatures while at low life. One last note, Elesh Norn has some major potential for serving in this same slot post NPH. Against some decks this fatty will be a simple blow out, while against others it could mean reducing opposing creatures stats to a manageable level. Sure some of those creatures can also be removed by StP and Path, but in my opinion they offer more benefit than the means to no lose/lose life. Just some food for thought.
You're not being rude at all :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturtzilla
I did not see the article, i start reading for the bottom the last page and stop on the reanimate with burning wish...
The question about why use Jin-Gitaxias over the others is simple, he is gamebreaking like no other, after banning the tutor this deck died, ok you have all the creatures that you mentioned lifegainers, shrouders etc. but still the deck underperformed because it lacks a solid gameplan, you have only 4 tutors in this deck that allow you to choose wich creature comes for battlefield, that is not solid, imagine iona against zoo, sphinx against any combo etc. Only 4 cards dont allow you to choose the best creature for any given situation, now, playing 4 Jin-Gitaxias gives you a gameplan, if he survives and you must garantee that he does the game is basicaly over, if the table is out of control there is no creature that makes you win the game, extend it a few turns ok the Empyrial Archangel, Sphinx or Blazing Archon do that but that's not enough, how many times do you reanimate a creature against zoo and lost the game because it was not the best one or simply because it was not enough, you must put the pressure on the other side and Jin makes that, you must play this deck like a combo that needs protection until end of your turn, with 12 almost free counters you can protect him at least one time and after you draw 7 if you cant protect him in the oponents turn you have very but very bad luck, after the oponents turn you enter in a situation that reminds me Iona on the field against Solidarity or Burn.
@ Pingu
Well I hope you enjoyed the read. : ) I agree that the inclusion of 4 JGCA can improve consistency of the deck, if you only plan on reanimating JGCA. It however reduces the flexibility of the deck. I still don't think that the Platinum creatures are the right route to go for a win. And ultimately we are talking about bringing back consistency, while maintaining some flexibility. We are not be able to rewind a year to the days of accessing Mystical Tutor for consistent turn 2-3 fatties of your choice. JGCA mainly offers post reanimation consistency. He does improve you random discards with Careful Study a small amount, if you are running 4 copies. The real benefit of JGCA does not occur until after you have set up the reanimation. The proposed builds including JGCA may actually worsen consistency.
Here's why: the inclusion of Mental Misstep in my build would compete for slots with Daze, Lim-Dul's Vault or Personal Tutor, and Thoughtseize. Removing LDV, PT, and/or TS (even if I rarely use it to bin dudes) would reduce consistency. The removal of Daze, I can nearly stomach, but Daze can hit threats the MM will not. To fit in the protection for JGCA, you will lose some ability to tutor for missing pieces which you would use to set up the reanimation.
Ultimately I am unsure if JGCA will provide the consistency that this deck needs to move back to the power of its heyday.
Yes i enjoy it, i agree with almost everything in the article, and the fetches are the same (twilight zone moment).
I understand what you are trying to say, but with the new counter (of course oponents will also use it but i think that is stronger here) i believe that you can loose some of the cards that you mentioned because it becomes easier to protect your play (entomb, reanimate, creature etc) so LDV, PT or TS becomes less relevant, and with Gin you ensure that you can reanimate another creature next turn while ensuring enough protection, i think this is the correct route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturtzilla
Now about the other creatures in the deck, about platinum i play it because i want to ensure that i dont loose next turn (its a pain taking 10 damage to reanimate Gin and his body is very weak), but of course if there is another creature that is better keeping me alive im very open in this slots.
And thank you for this discussion
Okay, since people are discussing Jin everywhere, i'd like to have a look at another card...
Have anyone tried Chancellor of the Annex in a Reanimator build?
it is essentialy an one-sided lodestone golem, that flys, and can make your opponent stalls in the first turn, giving you a little more time to combo-out (even if the chancellor ins't your animation target of choice).
it can also be used in multiples (4 would be too much, though. 1-2 seems to be a good call), and doesn't get eat by Karakas.
anyway, can anyone discuss about him?
I dont think that its good enough, its a slow clock has an easy go around ability and has no protection on its own (Gitaxias has no protection also but his draw and reduce 7 abilities are far better than this one), its not blue (people tend to ignore this but its very important). But hey, i might be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Modus Pwnens