Nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Interesting move, and it makes sense, to dip the wastelands when running 8 poxes. I may give that a shot in my big pox, all the BB/BBB will be easier to cast and i won't have to worry about an urborg.
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Nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Interesting move, and it makes sense, to dip the wastelands when running 8 poxes. I may give that a shot in my big pox, all the BB/BBB will be easier to cast and i won't have to worry about an urborg.
Bear in mind that is just how my deck evolved. I leave no guarantees it was in the right direction. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
the 4x shrieking affliction is probably a very good addition; i've played it in modern 8 rack, but never legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
if your opponent keeps cards in hand to avoid the 3 life loss, then all your discard is still live.
You would be surprised how many opponents empty their hands even with affliction on the table. Often playing that surplus land they don't need. Maybe it is a sign they feel they are going to lose anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by non-inflammable
What a cool deck! I bought my last big Pox today. I will definetly try this soon! (I just need some cool old same swamps)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
The question I have: wouldnt Cabal Therapy be perfect fit for this list? Thank you!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Glad you like it :smile:
I am no big fan of 1-för-1 discard. It has happened too often that I've been discarded to Oblivion but still won the match.
That I have Inquisitions in this latest list is because I wanted to improve the mana curve. There is a ton of expensive spells in the deck.
Cabal therapy are great with veteran explorer, and young Pyromancer, but not really with Bloodghast.
I'm curious what are you bringing in Vampire Hexmage for? You don't seem to be affected by Chalice of the Void as your curve is quite balanced, is it just for JtmS and Chandra? I do want to try this out, but I only have 3 Surgical's, could you see a 2/2 or 3/1 split of Surgical/Extirpate or am I better off with something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
The sideboard is always a work in progress. In this case the hexmage was a test. In theory it has several match ups were it is useful, particularly any deck with dark depths. Problem is that it takes both hexmage and Smallpox to get rid of the token. That is a two piece combo. To the Slaughter otoh is a one piece combo.
So, hexmage is probably destined to be put back in the binder.
As for surgicals and all that note that surgicals and leyline have different functions, but the reason I don't run both is to not have too much gy hate in the 15.
Leyline of the void have the advantage of being safe from discard (since it is in play at start.) I find that card better. Its stops dredge, lands and Reanimator hard, and is useful vs Maverick and decks with snapcaster, past in flames etc.
Now and then do i test surgical but soon go back to leyline.
Therefore both Leyline and Engineered Plague are usually four of in the sb.
And how to deal with opponents leylines (black, white), rips, chalices? Particularly removing our grave is painful as we have hard time to kill then.
Tom
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The cards you mention are just an annoyance to me. For the more traditional Smallpox deck they could be a problem however. Try splashing a colour for enchantment hate in sb, or perhaps run nevinyrral's disk or ratchet bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koplinchen
New card for my pox deck! I run a Bloodghast aggro Pox deck. Cabal Therapist is absolutely going in my sideboard. Vs spell heavy combo, out 4 Innocent Blood, in 4 Cabal Therapist.
Some new fun cards for Pox would be welcome. I am not impressed by this card however. Not in Pox, but definitely in a suicide build!
Well, if there is any chance to see some more Pox like cards, it will be in Modern Horizons. Fingers crossed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I have heard of this horizons thing but doesn't now anything about it. Is it the next expansion or something to the side?
Something to the side. Its a supplemental set that bypasses standard and goes directly into modern (and, by extension, i would assume legacy and vintage as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Regarding the card, i think regular cabal therapy would work better if that was the effect you want. It is a turn faster at a minimum, can still be flash backed for the second activation, and i think the amount of times you get the engine going with this card and spirit/bloodghast + lands is probably not worth the slowing down. Unless you already have 4x therapy and you wanted copies 5-8. That's my take on it. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Correct. In addition to your regular discard suite. But as anyone who has played Pox vs combo knows, you can disrupt them all day, but you still need to put them away. So when your opp has been throughly disrupted, you can beat down.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
Mind sharing a list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittplayer
Must be top secret tech.
Anyhow, something spicy on mtgtop8- The only 2 :frown: Pox lists up are both Chalice decks. One only runs two, the other the full set.
Other tidbits, no Chains in either. The 2nd has no Cursed Scroll and runs 2 Null Rod in the sideboard.
John O'Keefe
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=21232&d=341781&f=LE
(There is actually a typo on the page. Listed "Mishra" instead of "Mishra's Factory")
24 LANDS
1 Cabal Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
11 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 CREATURES
1 Nether Spirit
20 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Beseech the Queen
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
15 OTHER SPELLS
1 Bitterblossom
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Nether Void
1 Trinisphere
SIDEBOARD
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Dystopia
2 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Nether Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
James Everson
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=21410&d=343309&f=LE
23 LANDS
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
7 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
5 CREATURES
4 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
21 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Buried Alive
4 Collective Brutality
4 Dark Ritual
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
11 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nether Void
SIDEBOARD
1 Bitterblossom
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sinkhole
2 Toxic Deluge
I haven't seen a list with dystopia in a long time. Talk about a blast from the past.
Does it provide the other decks that were top? with chalice, voids and trinisphere, seems like they were really playing anti-storm pox (if i understand the card choices), right?
Also interesting to note as both ran the full set of dark rituals and both ran some sinkholes, something many here have gotten away from a little bit (myself included).
1st list (Dystopia list) meta 28 peepsQuote:
Originally Posted by ronco
1 D&T
2 Lands
3/4 Depths
3/4 Pox
5/8 4c Control
5/8 Depths
5/8 Grixis Control
5/8 Miracles (R splash for Hydroblast & Pyroblast)
2nd list meta 27 peeps
1 Sneak & Show
2 Miracles
3/4 Depths
3/4 Grixis Delver
5/8 Miracles
5/8 Mono Red Sneak
5/8 Pox
5/8 Yuriko (goofy UB Ninja deck. 20 bodies, 2 bitter blossom, normal tempo blue cards, black removal, OH SNAP 3 Far // Away)
Those are pretty small events. When I first saw them I thought they were bit larger. Kind of hard to make a case for anything with such samples.
These are about as far as you can get from what I am currently playing, but I might try something similar in the near future.
Both are also running 2 Nether Void and no other Legends enchantments.
Legacy POX deck tech and 6 game series on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...NGih_H3gdoKaas
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisParsley339
Thank you for creating this content. 2 To the Slaughter main and the Witchbane Orb in the side are pretty spicy.
Diabolical Edict got worse.
Liliana’s Triumph.
Instant 1B
Each opponent sacs a dude. If you have a Lili, opponents also discards a card.
Available in full art Open House promo.
Our Queen looks lovely.
Just came here to post that, naynay. I don't run any in my current build but it may be something to consider as a tool.
I may be in the minority, but I really like the promo full art.
Diabolic Edict main has been pretty fun for me as it helps with Chalice, Thought-Knot, Marit & so forth. I am looking forward to trying out To the Slaughter for a little bit. It's been mentioned here but I never foxed with it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
But at 3 mana is Hero's Downfall worth considering? Is targeting Jace more reliable than edicting him when a Snapcaster is possible? I suppose Snappy grabs a Counterspell which beats either. Merely destroying Marit Lage doesn't do a whole lot.
Promos are cool beans by me.
I watched the first round against UR, I think you make good videos and the gameplay was ok but that has to be the most hilarious justification for 61 cards I've ever heardQuote:
Originally Posted by TravisParsley339
In unrelated news, there is also a 3 mana black PW spoiled
Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage 2B
Leegendary Planeswalker - Davriel
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, if that player has 1 or fewer cards in hand, Davriel deals 2 damage to them
-1: Target player discards a card
Starting loyalty: 3
It seems maybe a bit too fragile to play maindeck but definitely looks good as a sb option in creature-light matchups (e.g. Storm, some control decks) especially for the versions of pox that are playing Dark Ritual
This would only be brought in vs Storm if you are intentionaly trying to lose the match. And Liliana of the Veil is better then this card in every single way.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
It's not a case of "hmm I have 1 more SB slot and I want to beat storm, what is the best option? This card!" because that's obviously not true, you would rather have Trinisphere or Nethervoid or Lost Legacy or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittplayer
But it's clearly better vs storm than several cards in most Pox maindecks and it may have additional application in other matchups as well, such that it warrants a sideboard slot
And of course Liliana of the Veil is better than this but you are only allowed to play 4 of them
Cemetery Gate is better than Innocent Blood vs Dredge, so obviously we should be sideboarding it. Also Plague Rats is better then Fatal Push vs Storm, so of course we better have that in the sideboard too.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittplayer
So you would prefer something which only attacks for 1, and needs sac fodder to disrupt (which cuts into your own clock), and dies to your own smallpox, rather than 2/3 of a Shrieking Affliction with a mind rot tacked on, got itQuote:
New card for my pox deck! I run a Bloodghast aggro Pox deck. Cabal Therapist is absolutely going in my sideboard. Vs spell heavy combo, out 4 Innocent Blood, in 4 Cabal Therapist.
I just went and searched the thread and the only list you've posted had 0 Liliana and 2 Noxious Revival which tells me just about everything that I need to know
Jesus Christ grow up everybody. Drop it and move on.
Such an idiotic strawman doesn't warrant a serious response, but in case anyone somehow thinks I'm the troll:
For the sake of argument I'll pretend that instead of Cemetery Gate he said Leyline of the Void and that instead of Plague Rats he said Trinisphere
Imagine for whatever reason that rest of a sideboard is these 13 cards:
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Collective Brutality
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Underworld Dreams
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
And your maindeck is built such that you want to bring in 2 extra cards (in addition to whatever is already in this 13) against both Dredge and Storm.
You could
a) Make a decision on which of the matchups is either going to be more common or which is more difficult, and play 2 Leyline 0 Trinisphere or 2 Trinisphere and 0 Leyline
b) Hedge by playing one copy of each
c) Play two copies of an entirely different card that is solid against both Dredge and Storm but not as good as the 'targeted' cards. (Extirpate perhaps, or Lost Legacy, feel free to suggest your own alternative)
Whether option a, b, or c is correct depends on the maindeck and the metagame and exactly which cards are being considered. My suggestion is that Davriel can is this kind of "option C" kind of card. In the above example you could decide that Davriel is similarly good as a wincon vs control that it can replace Underworld Dreams. Then you have an extra card that fills the role of supplementary discard, so maybe you decide to cut one of the Collective Brutalities. Now you have 3 open SB slots instead of 2 so you can play 2 Leyline and 1 Trinisphere, which might result in an overall better deck than what you had before.
Obviously Davriel has significant flaws:
- Against combo a mindrot split over 2 turns is very mediocre as disruption
- Against control decks if you mindrot it down to 1 loyalty it becomes very vulnerable to e.g. Kolaghans commands or endstep Snapcasters
And I have tried and ultimately rejected similar swiss-army-knife sb cards in the past for doing many things but not being good enough at any of them. (e.g. Barbarian Ring in RUG Delver). So it's possible that Davriel falls into this camp and is not really playable. But a rack effect combined with discard seems like an effect that this deck could take advantage of, and I don't think 2B is an entirely prohibitive manacost, so it seems at least worth discussing
With regards to the Hero's Downfall question, I'm not sure that the instant speed is very useful for this deck, so I think I prefer the Aftermath one from Amonkhet that you can flashback to make a zombie. But whether that is better than To the Slaughter I'm not sure
Tl;dr
I take it your not putting Dav in your pox deck Hardcore?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Mythic Champion Andrea Mengucci made his second video about Pox.
https://www.channelfireball.com/vide...el-mengucci-2/
I haven't watched it yet but the list is fun. Mox Diamonds over Rituals. Tabernacle and Nether Void, but no Chains or Abyss. Only two pieces of GY hate in the board.
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
10 Swamp
4 Mox Diamond
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Phyrexian Totem
1 Nether Spirit
3 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Duress
1 Bitterblossom
1 Lost Legacy
1 Nether Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tombstalker
I'm extremely skeptical of Mox Diamond and I think I would cut one of the Wraths for Bridge but I like a lot of the other things
I like 4/4/4/4 Hymn/Sinkhole/Smallpox/Veil
I like 1/1/1 Spirit/Crucible/Last Hope
I like 2 Cursed Scroll
I don't know if 1 Phyrexian Totem is good (compared to e.g. Beseech the Queen) and I would probably cut 1 Swamp for Tomb of Urami or try to get a Cabal Pit in there somewhere
From there you just have to tweak the numbers on TS/Blood and whether you want to sub some of them for like Raven's Crime or Funeral Charm and then I think this list is pretty good (at least the maindeck)
Without having watched the video I would swap Diamond for Rituals though
I can understand people are looking for something that blue seems to get all the time. The last card we got was just a creature-kill; the Fatal Push.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittplayer
However black already got a ton of powerful cards. More than blue actually.
As for the new pw it must compete with the ten three-mana spells I already got. Four Pox, four LotV and two LtLH.
I'm playing in a medium sized tournament tomorrow and none of my decks are feeling terribly well positioned, so I'm going to run an untested build of Loam-Pox for the fun factor. I have lots of experience piloting Mono-Black and G/B versions of Pox, but I've always used Chalice in Loam Pox so I'm not used to having Crop-Rot and Entomb. Does anyone have any experiences to share or comments on the build? I don't have access to any of the Legends enchantments or Tabernacle, sadly, but I do have most other cards that I might want. I'm sure it will be functional, but I'm just fishing for ideas.
2 Bloodghast
2 Vampire Hexmage
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Crop Rotation
2 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
4 Mox Diamond
1 Sylvan Library
1 Barren Moor
3 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
sideboard
2 Vampire Hexmage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
With that many singletons, I have to ask if this is a paper list and how high is his Dexterity level?Quote:
Originally Posted by naynay666
I used to love Mox Diamond in old Pox lists years ago alongside multiple Crucibles and Pox and a high land count. Dark Ritual is card disadvantage anyway, so Diamond setting you back a card isn't a huge penalty. Crucible gets the land back. Mox also let you cheat an extra "land" in play through Big Pox (normally you do everything in 3s).
Mox also enables turn 1 Sinkhole, back when Sinkhole was more commonly played. Sinkhole is much less bad on turn 1. You could Dark Ritual into turn 1 Sinkhole, but it feels like a waste (Dark Rit + 1-for-1 1cmc spell + Sinkhole is spending 3 cards to kill 2 cards). Dark Rit is usually better for a 3-drop (Lili, Crucible) or Hymn. Mox is a smoother way to accelerate Sinkhole and still speed up your big drops. I don't know if it's good in that list, but the card can be good in Pox.
Bontu's seems really bad.
Doing okay with this list (Mono-B) the last two FNM's:
u/r delver 2-1
b/r reanimator 2-0
sneak and show 2-1
u/r delver w/ pteramander 1-2
goblins 2-1
pox 2-1
ANT 2-1
grixis control 2-1
Quite happy with Faerie over Tombstalker at the moment. There are lots of cards I'd like to be playing but there isn't room.
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Bloodghast
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Innocent Blood
3 Shrieking Affliction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Collective Brutality
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
12 Swamp
SB:
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Massacre
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Bitterblossom
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Trinisphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge