[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

I'd rather play SI before Belcher, but let's be honest: neither are good. They both suffer from the problem of being so narrow that they are unable to play a real game of magic. Anybody who is able to interact with you is likely to blow you out.

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If you wanted to make this comparison (Pact vs. Belcher), you are still wrong. Its not bad because its narrow. On the contrary, it is GOOD because it is narrow. My list in particular sacrifices disruption for speed, speed you have clearly taken for granted. People all over this site often say 'Well I have about a 40% chance of having the force'. Well I have a +60% turn 1 kills. In some playtesting pools, I've pushed 70% turn 1 kills (on the play). Those are good fucking odds. Besides, the Pact list doesn't just roll over and die when its first D4 gets countered. One of SI's strengths is that it requires very few resources to go off a second time. Petal, Rit, D4 is all thats necessary. There isn't a more explosive deck in the format. The fact that you dismiss it as bad bothers me. Sure if you FoW and then lay down CB, I'm done. If you have double FoW, I'm done. I'll concede that the deck is weak against FoW; however, you make it sound like the deck can't compete just cause it has problems with FoW. Is Land.dec 'bad' because it can't compete with Dark Ritual?

Also, if you were familiar with the list, you would know that QSI is good against Tempo based control. FoW/Stifle/Waste from New Horizons? Am I supposed to be afraid of that hand or something? You haven't even specified my hand, who is on the play, etc. What if I'm on the play and start with Chrome Mox, Cabal Therapy naming Force, flashback naming Stifle? That hand says fuck you to Tempo, especially when I go off the following turn with Land, Cabal Ritual, Contract. Meditate makes Merfolk creme its pants? Giving you an extra card and combat phase isn't going to stop 11 cards, especially when I can play Therapy + Flashback on that turn. Play the deck sir because you clearly haven't. Then we'll talk.

This deck performed really good online today:

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
14 lands

2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
2 Cabal Ritual
3 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Ponder
4 Rite of Flame
3 Silence
1 Tendrils of Agony
46 other spells

Sideboard
1 Cleanfall
1 Deathmark
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Pyroclasm
2 Shattering Spree
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize
3 Xantid Swarm
15 sideboard cards

So it seems like we don't need MT to have a powerful deck, what do you guys think?

Looks like TES, not like ANT.

How did you get that list so soon after the event? I thought they only posted the Daily Event decklists after a week?

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

If you wanted to make this comparison (Pact vs. Belcher), you are still wrong. Its not bad because its narrow. On the contrary, it is GOOD because it is narrow. My list in particular sacrifices disruption for speed, speed you have clearly taken for granted. People all over this site often say 'Well I have about a 40% chance of having the force'. Well I have a +60% turn 1 kills. In some playtesting pools, I've pushed 70% turn 1 kills (on the play). Those are good fucking odds. Besides, the Pact list doesn't just roll over and die when its first D4 gets countered. One of SI's strengths is that it requires very few resources to go off a second time. Petal, Rit, D4 is all thats necessary. There isn't a more explosive deck in the format. The fact that you dismiss it as bad bothers me. Sure if you FoW and then lay down CB, I'm done. If you have double FoW, I'm done. I'll concede that the deck is weak against FoW; however, you make it sound like the deck can't compete just cause it has problems with FoW. Is Land.dec 'bad' because it can't compete with Dark Ritual?

Also, if you were familiar with the list, you would know that QSI is good against Tempo based control. FoW/Stifle/Waste from New Horizons? Am I supposed to be afraid of that hand or something? You haven't even specified my hand, who is on the play, etc. What if I'm on the play and start with Chrome Mox, Cabal Therapy naming Force, flashback naming Stifle? That hand says fuck you to Tempo, especially when I go off the following turn with Land, Cabal Ritual, Contract. Meditate makes Merfolk creme its pants? Giving you an extra card and combat phase isn't going to stop 11 cards, especially when I can play Therapy + Flashback on that turn. Play the deck sir because you clearly haven't. Then we'll talk.

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It's quite clear we have differing views on the matter. So why don't you keep thinking whatever it is you want to think, and we won't clog this thread with an off topic discussion about a completely different deck.

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

If you wanted to make this comparison (Pact vs. Belcher), you are still wrong. Its not bad because its narrow. On the contrary, it is GOOD because it is narrow. My list in particular sacrifices disruption for speed, speed you have clearly taken for granted. People all over this site often say 'Well I have about a 40% chance of having the force'. Well I have a +60% turn 1 kills. In some playtesting pools, I've pushed 70% turn 1 kills (on the play). Those are good fucking odds. Besides, the Pact list doesn't just roll over and die when its first D4 gets countered. One of SI's strengths is that it requires very few resources to go off a second time. Petal, Rit, D4 is all thats necessary. There isn't a more explosive deck in the format. The fact that you dismiss it as bad bothers me. Sure if you FoW and then lay down CB, I'm done. If you have double FoW, I'm done. I'll concede that the deck is weak against FoW; however, you make it sound like the deck can't compete just cause it has problems with FoW. Is Land.dec 'bad' because it can't compete with Dark Ritual?

Also, if you were familiar with the list, you would know that QSI is good against Tempo based control. FoW/Stifle/Waste from New Horizons? Am I supposed to be afraid of that hand or something? You haven't even specified my hand, who is on the play, etc. What if I'm on the play and start with Chrome Mox, Cabal Therapy naming Force, flashback naming Stifle? That hand says fuck you to Tempo, especially when I go off the following turn with Land, Cabal Ritual, Contract. Meditate makes Merfolk creme its pants? Giving you an extra card and combat phase isn't going to stop 11 cards, especially when I can play Therapy + Flashback on that turn. Play the deck sir because you clearly haven't. Then we'll talk.

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Nice man, I really want to see your list now. I am wondering what I would do after July 1st. If your deck can get 70% turn 1 kills on the play, I really really really want to see it!

I said that I can. No guarentees that you will just pick up the list and goldfish it as well as I do. Its a really hard list to play. Just know that ahead of time before you get too excited. It not like ANT or Belcher where its practically auto-goldfish.
I agree with Rico. Come to the SI thread in Established for the list. Its called Pact SI.

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

I said that I can. No guarentees that you will just pick up the list and goldfish it as well as I do. Its a really hard list to play. Just know that ahead of time before you get too excited. It not like ANT or Belcher where its practically auto-goldfish.
I agree with Rico. Come to the SI thread in Established for the list. Its called Pact SI.

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I had a look at the list. Are you sure that Draw 4s are the best way to replace ANT after Mystical is gone? And in a format with Lightning Bolts?

Against Zoo, you have to be on the draw, they need a red open, AND you need to play 3 D4 spells for Bolt to kill you.

If you're on the play, no chance for a land. If they play a land, chances are they will dump one of their 12 or so 1 drop creatures instead of saving mana for Bolt.

So Lightning Bolt isn't a factor for a deck that's supposed to win 60% on turn 1.

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Originally Posted by kooaznboi1088

I had a look at the list. Are you sure that Draw 4s are the best way to replace ANT after Mystical is gone? And in a format with Lightning Bolts?

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Replace ANT? Replace?

...

It was here first bub. In 06. ANT was derived from SI not the other way around. AdN was tried in SI before it was tried on its own. In a sense, I have a feeling that some ANT pilots will just change to QSI since its the easiest use of your Underground Seas.

Yes Bolt is in the format. You don't always have to play D4 (10), D4 (5), D4 (2). Sometimes that is the case. Other times you just drop Belcher and Belch. Other times.. you go for the IGG loop, other times you can just play your ToA. Also, this discussion is better suited for the SI forum bro.

There is little doubt in my mind that a Burning Wish/Infernal Tutor, possibly with LDV, maybe not, will be what the majority of ANT players replace ANT with if they keep playing storm. I'd actually assume more people keep playing Ad Nauseam or switch to a Fetchland Tendrils stye-deck with LDV than play SI.

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Originally Posted by emidln

There is little doubt in my mind that a Burning Wish/Infernal Tutor, possibly with LDV, maybe not, will be what the majority of ANT players replace ANT with if they keep playing storm. I'd actually assume more people keep playing Ad Nauseam or switch to a Fetchland Tendrils stye-deck with LDV than play SI.

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Thank you for trying to restore some sanity to the thread Emidln. It's great to discuss SI and all, but barring a radical new list, SI will remain too complicated for most former ANT pilots to play competently. If you can play SI reliably, that's great, but for the rest of us, it's time to move on to discussing deck ideas that actually work for your "Average Joe Combo", even if they are not optimum.

I've been testing Lim-Dul's Vault. Nice with Brainstorm. And it's an instant.

My only concern with LDV is, how much life, on average, are you spending to find Ad Nauseam for the win? If it's more than 4, I have a tough time seeing how the deck can survive Zoo, which was one of the premiere reasons to play the deck before.

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Originally Posted by emidln

There is little doubt in my mind that a Burning Wish/Infernal Tutor, possibly with LDV, maybe not, will be what the majority of ANT players replace ANT with if they keep playing storm. I'd actually assume more people keep playing Ad Nauseam or switch to a Fetchland Tendrils stye-deck with LDV than play SI.

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Agreed.
Also, you should scope the IGGY Pop variant that Gocho is developing on the Stormboards. Its a really sick list, fairly easy to play.

I play this:

4 delta
4 strand
3 Sea
1 tropical isl.
1 island
1Swamp

4 Brainstrom
4 ponder
4 dark ritual
4 LED
4 Lotus Peatl
4 mystical tutor
3 infernal tutor
1 IGG
1 ADN
2 tendrils of Agony
2 sdt
4 duress
2 Thoughtseize

sideboard is in constant flux, but mainly there are some tools against h8bears (pact of slaughter, Deathmark) and bothering artefacs - Rebuild.

What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

Agreed.
Also, you should scope the IGGY Pop variant that Gocho is developing on the Stormboards. Its a really sick list, fairly easy to play.

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Can you provide a link or a list? Never been there before...

Its Gocho's list so I'll wait for him to debut it here on TheSource. Its an invite only board so you wouldn't be able to see the link anyway until your application was approved.
Its good though. Easy to play and its fast. I think its the next ANT.

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I play this:

4 delta
4 strand
3 Sea
1 tropical isl.
1 island
1Swamp

4 Brainstrom
4 ponder
4 dark ritual
4 LED
4 Lotus Peatl
4 mystical tutor
3 infernal tutor
1 IGG
1 ADN
2 tendrils of Agony
2 sdt
4 duress
2 Thoughtseize

sideboard is in constant flux, but mainly there are some tools against h8bears (pact of slaughter, Deathmark) and bothering artefacs - Rebuild.

What do you think?

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I got a good laugh from that. Thanks sir.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Cyrus

My only concern with LDV is, how much life, on average, are you spending to find Ad Nauseam for the win? If it's more than 4, I have a tough time seeing how the deck can survive Zoo, which was one of the premiere reasons to play the deck before.

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Ad Nauseam isn't the only target for the Vault. I like to think of Lim-Dul's Vault as the offspring of Mystical Tutor and Doomsday. If you have a couple useless cards with some mana sources and a way to draw into those cards (Brainstorm) then you may only have to spend 2-3 life to find a tutor with more mana sources next to it and go off. If you have the mana and a tutor but not enough to play through Daze/Force, you can get some more mana or protection. I've been fishing with the Vault in place of Mystical for longer than Mystical has been banned, and I've been leaning more towards it ever since. Wizards banning Mystical just... pushed me in that direction.

Now I'm thinking of running 2 Scroll Rack in place of my 2 Divining Tops.