[Deck] The Rock

I see a lot of punishing fire right now and I wouldn't be comfortable having only four knight as creatures which never die to 2 damage (with scavenging ooze as long as they keep mana open for it you can never pump it). I would take out 2 ooze and 1 pridemage and add 2 zenith and a goyf, that way you still have the versatility but you can grab goyf and knights when you don't need the ability.

Have you found horizon canopy to be so good you want to go up to three? I would look at adding a one-of loam if you intend to do that as recurring canopy could be a solid lategame engine.

i'm planing to test a zenith-rock this coming feb-11 and this is my propose list

//main

4 dark confidant
4 knight of the reliquary
1 tarmogoyf
1 scavenging ooze
1 qasali pridemage
1 thrun the last troll
1 terravore
1 gaddock teeg

4 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
4 vindicate
3 green sun's zenith

4 swords to plowshares

3 sensei's divining top

2 bayou
2 scrubland
1 savannah
1 swamp
1 forest
1 plains
4 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
3 wasteland
1 karakas
1 maze of ith
1 volrath's stronghold
1 bojuka bog
1 horizon canopy

*no dryad arbor= i dont include it to the fact that it can be swords and it is affected by summoning sickness just delaying my plan to cast spells.

any thoughts about my list?

thanks

My thoughts:

-1 Stronghold
+1 Dryad Arbor
-4 Hymn to Tourach
+4 Inquisition of Kozilek

I've been finding the 1-CMC discard to be really good, and actually a bit better most of the time than Hymn. I know Hymn hits randomly, but taking what you want has also been super good, and doesn't make BB on turn 2 as necessary. Otherwise, I love the list. What are you thinking for your board?

-Matt

Hi, serendib. I'm curious which matchups you two have been testing. I tested a similar build and was disappointed with its record against UW Stoneblade. The Rock has a lot of utility cards but not a ton of threats, and I always felt threat-light there. I also found the Delver Burn matchup to be not great with our three-color manabase. (I feel like it hinges on Mox Diamond and who's on the play.)

@ Matt: I prefer the 1cc discard over Hymn right now, but the ultimate problem is that discard only takes care of the first copy. Snapcaster really weakens discard. I think Duress is something we might consider over some Inquisitions, since it hits planeswalkers and Batterskull and still hits most other spells. Brainstorm is still a bugger, though.

Brainstorm has always been an issue, so there's nothing we can really do about that.

I'm running 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Inquisition, 1 Duress at the moment. He could run 4 TS, 3 IoK, 1 Duress as well.

-Matt

I was just watching the matchup between Rock and Punishing Fire Maverick over in the tournament report thread, and I was looking at the use of Dark Confidant vs. Arena. I have to say, in a meta with lots of Punishing Maverick, I'd definitely switch to Arena. But, I think in most other cases, you'd still want Dark Confidant. Eating a Swords is fine, since at least then they can't point that Swords at Goyf, Knight, etc.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I was just watching the matchup between Rock and Punishing Fire Maverick over in the tournament report thread, and I was looking at the use of Dark Confidant vs. Arena. I have to say, in a meta with lots of Punishing Maverick, I'd definitely switch to Arena. But, I think in most other cases, you'd still want Dark Confidant. Eating a Swords is fine, since at least then they can't point that Swords at Goyf, Knight, etc.

-Matt

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Arena is million times better vs UW Blade as well.

Well, okay, I guess. Just for the removal factor, or what?

-Matt

If Arena does prove to be good enough, I was thinking about running this (still feels so weird to not run Confidant...)

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland

3 Tarmogoyf
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Deathmark
3 Vindicate
1 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Green Sun's Zenith

BOARD:

1 Ancient Grudge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Troll Ascetic
3 Extirpate
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Perish
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Path to Exile
1 Gaddock Teeg

You'll have to keep either Threat Density or Threat Recursion. Bob may not be much of one but it does swing from time to time. You can't win without damage (unless you're going the mill route). It may be a good time to take a look at Trisomy21 and the Truffle Shuffle for different playstyles without the Creature count.

Also, It may be worth looking into cutting the Tops for Library's if you're using Arena. You're drawing an extra card so it essentially allows you to Library a card deeper.

I'm not sure we really need to go that far, considering you hardly ever swing in with Bob. I'm more worried about getting an extra card one turn later.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

My thoughts:

-1 Stronghold
+1 Dryad Arbor
-4 Hymn to Tourach
+4 Inquisition of Kozilek

I've been finding the 1-CMC discard to be really good, and actually a bit better most of the time than Hymn. I know Hymn hits randomly, but taking what you want has also been super good, and doesn't make BB on turn 2 as necessary. Otherwise, I love the list. What are you thinking for your board?

-Matt

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thanks matt for the input! :), i realized while i solitaire this list using a site in the net hymn is good but the list demands more on green and most of the case a turn 2 hymn is less effective in terms of the lands available for example i have hymn(s) but current land in hand is savannah even if i have right fetches, plus another 1 drop discard is good atm stripping snapcasters and other relevant cards( <=3 CMC) of the opponent hand. So i think hymn is good at the old build/classic build of junk just like i used this past days. Hey guys i want to know how to handle match up against mavs/punishing mavs i only encountered once the 2nd placer in our event, kinda rough match up for me (first time playing against punishing mavs), since i'am switching to zenith junk can you suggest a good SB cards, my current SB cards are more on board control since i used the classic junk.

Save Sword to Plowshares for relevant theats - such as Mother of Runes, Knight of the Reliquary or when they swing with equipped creature. There is no point in using removal on Noble Hierarch or Dryad Arbor, unless they have obvious mana screw.

If you have Deeds in your 75 (I play one in mainboard and one in sideboard), this match-up should be slightly in your favor.

Edit: This is one of the few match-ups where I actually like GSZ in Rock, as all the "extra" KotRs come in handy.

GSZ lets you fetch Knights, but more importantly, Scavenging Ooze. Ooze is huge in this matchup.

I'd suggest running at least these in your 75:

4 STP
2 Perish or 1 Perish/1 Virtue's Ruins
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Path/Deathmark

I'm also running 2 Deathmark in the main, so I have a total of

4 STP
2 Perish or 1 Perish/1 Virtue's Ruins
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Path
2 Deathmark

As my removal quite against Maverick. It works really well :)

-Matt

Took down 1st place at the local Legacy. Tournament report to follow on Friday.

MVP: Deathmark + Knight of the Reliquary + Deed.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Took down 1st place at the local Legacy. Tournament report to follow on Friday.

MVP: Deathmark + Knight of the Reliquary + Deed.

-Matt

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congrats matt! what list are you using btw? we will having a saturday legacy event this coming 4, well still short of cards for my zenith junk :) this is my propose SB atm i sense that RUG, mavs, stoneblade, dredge will be the meta this sat and also for feb 19 a big legacy tourney my plan is to apply my sb in feb 4 to feb 19 this is the list
2 pernicious deed
2 ethersworn canonist
3 choke
3 surgical extraction
2 perish
2 diabolic edict
1 tower of the magistrate

I love how disgusting we are against RUG, holy hell. All I did in the final round was Wasteland, Vindicate, Knight, Wasteland, Swords, Path, Deathmark, Deed, etc. Teehee.

I'll post my list today.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Took down 1st place at the local Legacy. Tournament report to follow on Friday.

MVP: Deathmark + Knight of the Reliquary + Deed.

-Matt

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Did you play arena or bob?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsck

Did you play arena or bob?

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[2]

I played Bob since I forgot my Arenas in a casual deck, but they got Bolted nicely, leaving my Knights free to slam down next turn.

I love Bob, but I didn't face the Stoneblade player. I faced Elves!, Mono Red Burn, then RUG Delver. Deed > Elves, Ooze > Burn (kind of...with discard and such it was great), and removal > RUG Tempo. I lost game 2 of RUG because I didn't actually see a threat, and he saw quadruple lightning bolt and quad Snapcaster Mage. The game went LONG.

-Matt