[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Also, will the uncounterable clause on Decay actually get around Mother of Runes? Since her ability would make an illegal target, the spell would be "countered," I'm just not sure which way it would go as far as the rulings are concerned. I want to say that Mom won't stop Decay, which would be amazing.

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Abrupt Decay can't be countered by spells or abilities, but it can still be countered before resolving if the legal target is removed. MoM effectively 'counters' Abrupt Decay by removing the legal target required for Decay's resolution. EDIT: And the legal target just needs to be legally removed once. So even if you Momentary Blink a creature that's the target of an AD, the AD will still be countered even if the creature is still on the battlefield after Blink resolves.

Spells (typically instants/sorceries) usually have a 'can't be countered by spells or abilities' clause if the said spell targets something, so that in cases such as Mom vs AD, they can still be countered if they fail to have a legal target for resolution. But spells that don't require targets, such as creatures, or Supreme Verdict, just have a 'can't be countered' clause so no matter what those spells will never be countered before resolution.

*goes back to lurking*

Haha, I'm just saying that there are a few ways for Rector to circumvent the hardest part to beat of ScapeFit :P.

On STE, my view point is that if the deck is leaning towards a sac outlet core (it is approaching 8 or 12+ outlets with 2 Tower, 4 Therapy, 4 GSZ -> 1 Ruskala, Intent...depending on how you count GSZ and not counting Nightmare) then the more powerful card to roll with will be the Emissary since you have a high chance of having an outlet in hand. I count VE as being more powerful as it can be combined with 8 cards of the deck for profit (Rusalka being a weak #8), whereas STE finds marginal synergy with a lonely Nightmare and otherwise is a slightly warm old man on the field.

All that said, I do like this point you made:

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I'd rather my "backup ramp dude" is able to actually ramp on his own without needing an outlet, personally, because that's his purpose

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so I'll have to keep that in mind in my testing, and see when it is relevant and how it changes the game plan. tl;dr the pilot needs to see if they prefer 100% chance of ramp dude or 80*% chance of ramp/sac utility dude.

*with 12 sac outlets, this one website says you have a 81% chance of drawing one outlet in your opening hand. 35% of the deck can use VE for profit. Fuck if I know for harder math further than that, such as chance of drawing sac + 6 ramp dudes vs 4 ramp dudes and varying for 3 or 4 GSZ. I do chemistry, lol. http://www.kibble.net/magic/magic10.php

Also, this is the concept fueling my next Modern deck that will be graveaggro with a Jarad's Orders kill:

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The idea behind Scapewish is that it's a Nic Fit deck first, and a combo deck second. The combo blends seamlessly into the overall gameplan of the deck...it's not a "Valakut deck." It's a Nic Fit deck that uses a Valakut core. It all goes back to that question of conceptualization and intent.

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@Arianrhod,

Decay is more useful than Pulse against Mom because it is instant speed, not because of the "countered" clause. Along with a beefy creature, you can circumvent Mom with decay using combat tricks.

@Qweerios

That new BUG list you posted is almost card for card the list I'm working on when Return to Ravnica is released. Let me know how your testing fares!

Yep, Great Whale (or Palinchron, if I determine whether mixing it up game 2 and 3 would be a viable option) will be one of win-cons for my build. Why? Because it's so useful (and fun) to just do anything you want as a win condition. You can get around pretty much any kind of defense as long you anticipate it. They got Leyline of Sanctity? Exsanguinate. Strong counterspell suite? Tendrils of Agony. Both? Put in a bunch of tokens with Thragtusk and gain enough life to last you for the rest of the game. Possibilities are truly, truly outrageous. And it's all thanks to Recurring Nightmare and Great Whale/Palinchron.

Granted, grave-hate is a pita, as is a properly timed counterspell (i.e. countering the Recurring Nightmare itself). Also, setting up the combo is a bit of a hassle: might up my Intuition count to 4. But otherwise, it's been working great as an alt win-con (primary win-con is still smash face with giant dude).

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

@Cire_dk -- Firemind pretty much nailed it. The idea behind Empath is that you can Green Sun for your non-green 6-drops that way. Empath for Sun Titan, sac Empath to whatever, then Sun Titan bringing back Empath for Yosei is a savage beating that a lot of decks just crumple under. I'll grant you that Empath is a little underwhelming, and I do hope that one day we get a "better" Empath. Mwonvuli Beast-Tracker was really, really close. All it needed to say was "Flying" instead of "Reach," and I would have been allllllllll over that. So, hopefully one day. For now, though, I think it's still important.

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Thanks for the response. I understand its use with GSZ but is it not to slow. If I understand correctly it will take 2 turns most of the time to activate. Empath -Suntitan, next turn Play Sun sac empath, next turn Yosei etc. With Eladamri's Call it would be much faster. Since you need it towards mid end game the chances are, playing top and fetch, you will likely have seen the card. So it is speed vs utility. I guess I will just have to find out. :tongue:

PS How do I insert images correctly?

a question about the Scapewish deck:

To make it simple, say I have 8 forest in play. I then sac 8 forest for scapeshift and search for 2x valakut and 6x mountains. They all enter the battlefield simultaneously and I'm wondering, can I deal 36 damage in total or only 6? Since I need 5 mountains for valakut to trigger and then only the 6th would do damage, but as they all enter the battlefield at the same time will I then deal max damage?

Sorry if this has been asked already.

Also I can't decide if I want to play rector version or scapewish next sunday... problem is im missing the duals for scapewish but if I can get a hand on them I'll try that deck

Because they all enter the battlefield at the same time the Valakut sees 6 mountains enter the battlefield. Now it checks, are there allready 5 others? Well yes there are!

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Originally Posted by Viridia

Because they all enter the battlefield at the same time the Valakut sees 6 mountains enter the battlefield. Now it checks, are there allready 5 others? Well yes there are!

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The important thing is it checks for EACH MOUNTAIN. So mountain 1 checks and yes, there are 5 others. Mountain 2 checks and yes there are 5 others. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's kinda insane really.

EDIT: Disregard This. RTFC. derp.

So as long as you have 7 lands in play when you scapeshift (or one less for each valakut you already have in play) you can find 5 mountain and 2 valakuts and deal 30 damage. Or if 15 damage is enough you can scapeshift on 6 lands.

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect

So as long as you have 7 lands in play when you scapeshift (or one less for each valakut you already have in play) you can find 5 mountain and 2 valakuts and deal 30 damage. Or if 15 damage is enough you can scapeshift on 6 lands.

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Valakut says
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle enters the battlefield tapped.
Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, you may have Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle deal 3 damage to target creature or player.
Tap: Add R to your mana pool.

This means that with 7 lands you should scapeshift for 1 Valakut and 6 mountains, resulting in 6 Lightning Bolts (18 damage).
This is usually enough because of fetchlands, FoW and your creatures.
8 lands Shift will result in 2 Valakuts and 6 mountains or overwhelming 36 damage.

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Originally Posted by Cire_dk

Thanks for the response. I understand its use with GSZ but is it not to slow. If I understand correctly it will take 2 turns most of the time to activate. Empath -Suntitan, next turn Play Sun sac empath, next turn Yosei etc. With Eladamri's Call it would be much faster. Since you need it towards mid end game the chances are, playing top and fetch, you will likely have seen the card. So it is speed vs utility. I guess I will just have to find out. :tongue:

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It's numbers. 3-4 zenith + 1 empath = 5-6 chances at a 6 drop. Or*replace empath w/ call and you only get two chances.

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Originally Posted by eq.firemind

Valakut says
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle enters the battlefield tapped.
Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, you may have Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle deal 3 damage to target creature or player.
Tap: Add R to your mana pool.

This means that with 7 lands you should scapeshift for 1 Valakut and 6 mountains, resulting in 6 Lightning Bolts (18 damage).
This is usually enough because of fetchlands, FoW and your creatures.
8 lands Shift will result in 2 Valakuts and 6 mountains or overwhelming 36 damage.

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

It's numbers. 3-4 zenith + 1 empath = 5-6 chances at a 6 drop. Or*replace empath w/ call and you only get two chances.

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I don't even have to say anything this morning -- you guys already answered the questions correctly lol. So yeah, people who are wondering why Empath and how Valakut works, there you go.

I'm just going to go continue being miserable. I hate colds.

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect

So as long as you have 7 lands in play when you scapeshift (or one less for each valakut you already have in play) you can find 5 mountain and 2 valakuts and deal 30 damage. Or if 15 damage is enough you can scapeshift on 6 lands.

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there must be a MIN of SIX mountains and 1 Valakut! :p

so MIN scapeshift land count is SEVEN!

Speaking of Abrupt Decay's wording ... anyone see the new wording for Gilded Drake?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...tiverseid=5837

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

Speaking of Abrupt Decay's wording ... anyone see the new wording for Gilded Drake?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...tiverseid=5837

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That... looks like how I remember it being for a while. Care to elaborate?

Wow, that's...unusual. Why would they do that, it has no bearing on the card's original intent at all.

^I imagine he's referring to the "Can't be countered by spells or abilities". If its always been like that then I'm not sure why the text is there.

@slikwilly

"Can't be countered except by spells or abilities. (This effect lasts indefinitely)."

^

That's what I'm referring to. Very confusing for me.

EDIT: jinxed lol

Wait, I see now, I was thinking it meant "Can't be countered BY spells and abilities", not "This ability can't be countered EXCEPT by spells and abilities". Now it makes more sense.

Looks to me like the card still works the exact same way -- they just closed up a few potential loopholes. Unless I'm missing something...?