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You can go +2 CoV, +2 Xantids, -3 Duress, -1 EtW if you feel Leylines are your biggest concern vs S&T archetypes, but the reason for Bryant cutting Silences over Duress is that Duress can simply strip the Sneak attack/S&T setting them possibly back for turns while Silence leaves you only 2 options: Silence-Walk for a single turn to delay the SA/S&T OR protect your killQuote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Edit: never cut Probes; you can still target yourself
I agree it doesn't seem right to completely cut Duress unless it's g3 and you saw them aggressively mulligan to Leyline g2. Discard is very good against them when they're targetable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I disagree with cutting Probe vs. Ponder. A huge reason why Probe is so good in the deck is because it allows us to know what to play around, but Leyline shuts that off. I'll take Ponder over Street Wraith any day.
If a S&T deck aggressively mulls for a Leyline against a deck like TES they plain loose to crap like EtW. Mull for Leyline can be key against discard heavy enemies like Jund or Shardless BUG but I would laugh at a S&T-pilot mulling to 5 just to have the damn Leyline but no fast Combo and then die miserably to an EtW for 8 goblinsQuote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Edit: it's a similar case for BUG/Jund mulling for the Thoughtseize ... i face that nonsense every fucking tournament
But isnt the plan vs other combo deck to Board out ETW? (Not to say that we cant wish for it of course)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Yes, I was talking about Wish and to an extend about the Gitaxian Probe issue in that contextQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I agree that it's a mistake for opponenets to mull aggressively to bad hate cards like Thoughtseize or Leyline. On the other hand, if they just have it in an otherwise fine hand (which really isn't that uncommon - S&S is a fairly stable deck), then I'd prefer to have Ponder over Probe. Basically, Ponder's likely to be better when I'm like 50% to being able to target them and they're more likely to be relying on cantripping to find their combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
No doubt, but the odds of them having a grip of 7 or 6 with Leyline + enough mana/cantrips for a kill in the first 3-4 turns + Enabler (S&T/Sneak/Dream Halls) + Bomb (Omni, Grizz, Emrakul) + Counterspell (FoW,Pierce,Flusterstorm) are still far below 25%. I don't base my calculations on pure nut-draws of my opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
@Lemnear:
@Rest:
About 2 Duress vs S&T -
I will never cut the Duresses, One mutch up I won vs S&T among others was because I duressed him having 2 petals S&T and Emrakul.
This is an example of why Duress is the best disruption card vs S&T as serves in 2 roles. note it also can't be misdirected.
I definately will not board Therapys vs S&T,
So for most of S&T Decks -1 Empty -1Ponder +2 Xantid will be ok. I agree.
But I still do not understand why to side in 2 CoV vs S&T Match up. Even in the Worst scenario which have 4 Leylines Landed, you can Still put 20 Goblins,and silnece him twice on his next turn...
About vs Renimator Match up
Related this:
Reanimator
+2 Xantid Swarm
+2 Chain of Vapor
-2 Silence
-1 Empty the Warrens
-1 Ponder
I always take the evolution of the Reanimator made by this player:
http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?...oaquin%20Solis
And I'd like to have a Sideboard plan vs this Deck,
An example of this evolutioned Deck:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10493&iddeck=76531
The idea is that the Deck does not play Misdirection so Therapy can be placed in here - One reason.
It is faster than S&T so It seems better to use proactive answers to Disrupt OR Comboing. Silence only serves for one of these roles. therefore sometimes you will desire to disrupt his Combo. with Therapy instead of having a useless Silence.
I think that Iona on the Table will make you loose the game, I think that we need to assume that If Iona lands we will loose Unless we have CoV.
I think that If we play CoV , we will need as much as disruptive cards to make the opponent discard FoWs in the firsts turns Post Iona (that will be the plan if we already have the CoV).
So I think the best plan will be vs Reanimator:
-1 Empty
-1 Ponder
-2 Silence
+2 Therapy
+2 X.Swarn
If you feel that CoV is neccessary:
-1 Empty
-1 Ponder
-4 Silence
+2 Therapy
+2 X.Swarn
+2 CoV
Do you agree?
Do you feel it is neccessary?
Vs this Deck what do you think it is better Silence or Therapy?
I think that an example of common scenario:
- Hand of Reanimator with:
Entomb, Daze, FoW, Reanimate, Land, Land, Ponder
- Starting him
- you have: Land, Petal, Therapy, Gitaxian, LED, B.Wish, RoF.
This is the real Life, if not they will have (Griselbrand OR Gitaxian) AND Carefull Study, etc.
For this reason I will put Therapy as can take out The Entomb OR C.Study which can delay the game just the neccesary.
For me reanimator has been alsways a problem, not the same as S&T.
I'm thinking in using Brivery seriously, Lemnear I've read some of Heart of Storm Articles, I feel the same... I just have a good feeling with dis deck... How has served vs Reanimator? and vs S&T , does this worth the Space. I 'm also thinking in swithching to 2 A.Decay. +1 Brivery.
I think the 4th Duress would pull more weight than the 4th Silence in the MD given how often people are SBing in Cabal Therapy, granted it's not as good as Silence vs aggro-control but vs Miracles, Jund, Junk and Combo I find myself wanting discard and when you're playing blind it's much more cost efficient to be able to Duress, go as a turn one play as opposed to have to hold up the Silence until you can go off on the same turn.
I don't think that number is realistic at all. Just having Leyline in the opener is easily 50% if they're willing to mulligan to 6, and they don't need a whole lot for a keepable hand. They play 8 of each piece, plenty of lands, and lots of cantrips, so it's not a deck that mulligans a whole lot to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Besides, you should be prepared to beat their good draws because we crush their mediocre draws already.
I think everyone's in agreement that the 2 or 3 Duresses should stay in, Leyline or no.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelikanudo
About CoV, I'm not sure it's correct. I've boarded both ways and I've had Chain be very good but sometimes it rots in my hand until I can Brainstorm it away. At worst it still is a storm enabler or can bounce an early Sneak Attack. The upside of having at least 1 in the deck to sometimes find with Ad Naus is pretty valuable.
For reanimator, I disagree that discard is good against them. They have 8-10 of each piece, so it's almost impossible to stop them from comboing. The only possible way to win against this difficult matchup is to force them to have the answer before they make a Griselbrand or Iona. Because that's the case, Silence is really good against their Dazes and Forces and Swarm is good because it allows us to go off t2 with protection more easily.
I'm also not sold on Chain. I feel like it's so much more likely that they'll get Griselbrand than Iona that Chain's not worth bringing in, but it does feel bad to just be cold to that. If they have like 3 non-Griselbrand targets to bounce I'd bring them in - Platinum Emperion, Iona, Jin, etc.
The difference isn't major and is definitely as much a meta call as a playstyle preference. I do feel that 4 Silence is correct right now though. In the difficult matchups like Thresh or fish it's insane, and it's still quite good vs. Jund and Maverick. You just have to be very aggressive about Silence-walking them. If they can't deploy their cards before you kill them, imagine Silence as being a 2 or 3 for 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Also, I for the most part prefer Silence against combo. Against storm it's a 1-mana Mind Twist / Time Walk+Funeral Charm split card. Against U-based combo like High Tide and S&T, it allows us to go off earlier through Force and therefore win.
Missed going 3-1 or 4-0 in tonight's DE for the first time in several events.
Last minute cut the Grapeshot for Hull Breach, obviously ran into a situation where I could only Tendrils my BURG Cascade opponent down to 2.
No Tendrils main is a little rough against Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast, something I never noticed before. If people catch on to that it could be a hassle. Maybe relying on Silence is enough though.
Honestly Grapeshot is one of the last cards I would cut for a hull breach. I would cut an Abrupt Decay most likely if I were to add in a hull breach.
I might agree in paper, but not on MTGO. You're almost guaranteed to play against 1-2 Countertop decks in a DE.
I have not faced Reanimator in the last 2,5 months because those former players all jumped onto S&T which however is somewhat similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
Against reanimator, S&T, 12-Post and Co. Bribery is good, but as long as mana/speed isn't a problem you can side out an Infernal Tutor and use the wish -> Infernal -> Ad Nauseam chain for "only" 2 mana more in games 2/3 which is somewhat redundant if you don't face pressure via discard and saves a SB spot (which is often the case against those decks and the reason why I chopped Bribery again).
Bribery is still a suprise in G1 against those decks and cheaper than the Wish-chain which makes it a strong consideration if your Meta is full of those kind of decks if your mislead conclusions is not to cut essentials like IGG (which I once did) for it. You may cut a Decay or CoV if you are interested in running Bribery and make up your mind.
For me personally the Bribery isn't justifyable with 2 S&T and a single 12-Post in a field of ~ 18 players.
As an alternative to Bribery against those decks you may consider a 3rd swarm in the board instead (something I test atm)
Another proposition is to remove the Xantid Swarms for Bribery to improve the game 1 percentages vs Sneak/Show, Tin Fins and Reanimator, my MD and SB are a bit different from the standard, 4 City of Brass, 4 Gemstone Mine, 3 Darkslick Shores, 4th Chrome Mox, 4 Duress 3 Silence with the 4th Silence in the SB for the -1 Infernal Tutor +1 Silence plan vs aggro-control and I don't think SB Bribery is really any less of a metagame consideration than the SB Xantid Swarms at this point because disregarding Merfolk you're essentially SBing for Griselbrand.dec considering Xantid Swarm is awful vs RUG, BUG and UBW depending on whether or not they keep STP in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I think a SB like,
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grape Shot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill Gotten Gains
1 Past in Flames
1 Bribery
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Revoke Existence
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Karakas
1 Silence (or Orim's Chant)
Pretty much covers your bases as cost efficiently as possible.
Karakas fell out of my grace with the rise of Omniscience and tha fall of Maverick. Swarms are a lot more flexible in those slots
I still see a lot of Thalia in Goblins and Gaddok Teeg in whatever that Maverick/Junk hybrid is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Our goblin plays REB's and Mindbreak Trap. Aside from that, we have no Maverick/Junk left in our meta. All depending on your backyard I guessQuote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I really don't understand this idea that Bribery will greatly increase g1% against these decks. It's going to matter so infrequently preboard when they don't even have removal for Empty or extra counterspells, and postboard you can Wish->IT->Ad Naus as Lemnear mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Yes, Xantid Swarm is awful against RUG, BUG, and UWR. That's not a surprise. It's not for those matchups! But in the matchups where it's good, it's such a high impact card compared to Bribery that it's easily worth its slot.
Final Fortune, why in the hell did you change your manabase to that monstrosity? Do you enjoy being Brainstorm-locked? Also having 8 rainbow lands when you're trimming on non-Grixis spells doesn't make a lot of sense.
Because the fetch lands are too few to have a high impact on Brainstorm and Ponder's card selection and I prefer to have consistent access to white mana for Silence as well as u/b/r for the cantrips and accelerants, it's also a price consideration where the fetchlands and dual lands are put to better use else where frankly. I don't think the heavier fetch land and dual land mana base or the 4th Chrome Mox and heavier gold land mana base are strictly superior to one another, they just emphasize different components of the deck; in my case it emphasizes going off turn 2 with the appropriate mana as often as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
It's not as simple as SBing Infernal Tutor, the difference in mana between 9 for the Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor and Ad Nauseam chain and 7 for the Burning Wish and Bribery chain is significant and Empty the Warrens is not a feasible win condition vs a deck that can and will play a 7/7 Lifelink creature in the two turn window that you're going to give them. I play against a lot of Griselbrand decks, and not having a fast and reliable kill condition in the SB for game 1 is a problem. The fact that Xantid Swarm isn't for the aggro-control or control match ups is exactly my point, barring Merfolk, you're essentially boarding 2 cards for the same match ups you're boarding Bribery for.