Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nerv2004
My issue with Ugin is its directly competing with sundering titan. do we want to attack there land or their permanents.
I think we want both, but I'm not sure. Titan always has the advantage of being an artifact so you can forgemaster for it, though in a direct competition on land vs. other permanents I think destroying other permanents is much more significant, it isn't the lands that kill us, and if we can destroy all the permanents then what they are casting isn't all that relevant. Ugin also has the advantage of providing a reasonable clock while being able to just say no to anything the opponent is playing. It is great against Jace, most creatures and equipment, where as titan is a quick clock, has pseudo protection from removal but can get chumped for days and doesn't solve one of the big problems with the deck of just getting too far behind, which has been a huge issue for me when playing MUD.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nerv2004
My issue with Ugin is its directly competing with sundering titan. do we want to attack there land or their permanents.
I ran a 3 titan list at my most recent legacy outing. Ugin is absolutely going to replace one of them because we want both. Especially after as this meta shifts post TC ban.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BTY
I think we want both, but I'm not sure. Titan always has the advantage of being an artifact so you can forgemaster for it, though in a direct competition on land vs. other permanents I think destroying other permanents is much more significant, it isn't the lands that kill us, and if we can destroy all the permanents then what they are casting isn't all that relevant. Ugin also has the advantage of providing a reasonable clock while being able to just say no to anything the opponent is playing. It is great against Jace, most creatures and equipment, where as titan is a quick clock, has pseudo protection from removal but can get chumped for days and doesn't solve one of the big problems with the deck of just getting too far behind, which has been a huge issue for me when playing MUD.
With the list that I posted recently, I rarely do get behind much. It's only in rare occasions where my opponents has like 3 out of 4 wasteland in his opener to really put me behind. Most of the time, my deck gets well ahead of my opponent because that 12 post tech is imbalance, underrated, and far superior strategy that not a lot of people realize. My problem with my list is sometimes I get overwhelmed with mana that I'm not drawing threats or game changers, but more lands. That's the problem with 24 lands. But, the Pro that overtakes the con of playing 24 lands is that 24 lands provide very consistent and keep-able hands. Mud is a deck that needs a lot of mana to do business.
You definitely want both cards. I run 2 Ugin and 1 Sundering Titan because I want to be able to draw Ugin, but not have him always in my opener because it can be a dead card sometimes if you don't have the mana for it. There are times when I get bad hands that don't have enough playable mana in it. Card selection is all depended on your meta. It's your call.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Sundering titan = mehhh.. un evasive fatty that kills 2/3 lands on landing. why not just win the game?
I have tried the following list wich consist of some concepts i tried in the past. First of all its loaded with big threads. wurmcoil because he swings hard and returns when dying and hellkite because destroys whole boards and is a pumpable with 12post mana wich is lethal fast.
I run 3 thran dynamo next to metalworkers. While monoliths offer a quick burst thran dynamos are essentialy metalworkers that die harder when resolved. when you have a thran dynamo + 4 mana from regular lands you just win because you can drop multiple threads a turn. (+ UGIN enabler)
Talking about threads- this deck tends to run out of steam quick. Thats why i put in scroll rack. This is essentially a card filter and when you just keep drawing lands with a board full of mana you just trade them for something nice. It wins games.
Third strange tech is scarecrone- he has a double use: first you can sac him for 1 to draw 1. Essentially it has cycling (4) if you sac him instantly, wich isnt bad when you desperatly need something else. + its second ability reads T4: return a artifact creature to play from the graveyard. Thats sick in this deck, if they CAN deal with threads then we have a nice filled graveyard.
Special shout outs to mishra's factory and blinkmoth nexus. I could have went with mutavault (because it sacs to scarecrone in a draw) but i choose these because they are artifacts (so you can sac them to kuldotha) and they buy you time to get out your 12post mana. People dont like facing a 3/3 assembly worker. And a 2/2 fyling blocker scares delvers away every day.
Anyway heres my list, what do you think?
PS: Ugin is awesome when resolved!
'ugin's magical mana man land'
3 Thran Dynamo
4 Metalworker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Scroll Rack
3 Scarecrone
4 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Steel Hellkite
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
SB: 4 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Platinum Emperion
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Duplicant
Results testing:
reanimate 2-0
RUG 2-1
high tide 1-0
Burn 1-2
ANT 2-0
dredge 2-0
goblins 1-2
RU delver 2-0
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
This... is the most explosive (pre-Ugin) version of MUD i have ever played. This deck has the speed and the tools to pin-point opposing decks weaknesses and just stomp face.
Biggest changes i had since i played it a couple of months back where:
-2 Voltaic Key for +2 Daretti, Scrap Savant
While Daretti was a nice utility walker, the impact on the board was still pretty low. So after some testing i decided to change the following:
-2 Daretti, Scrap Savant for +2 Karn Liberated.
This was both to try the shell and find out if it can support Ugin and the deck needed answers to problems that needed to be solved. In that regard i also changed:
-1 Spine of Ish Sah for +1 Steel Hellkite
While Spine did answer some problems, it was pretty much horrible after it done it's work leaving you with scrap metal. Being able to achieve the same with the 5/5 flyer also gives recurring ratchet bombs. This puts more pressure on the board. Especcially against the horror match-up Elves.
-1 Wurmcoil Engine for +1 Steel Hellkite (Masticore)
While Wurmcoil Engine provides some excellent pressure on the board and sometimes closes out/wins games like Batterskull does, it sometimes doesn't solve problems that can present itself more often then not. So i might find that having Steel Hellkite as a tag team buddy will solve the problems AND still puts the pressure on the board i desire.
The Masticore will be in the 2nd Hellkite spot for now. Masticore has always been a very strong creature (when it was in standard every deck played them) and i think it still has appeal in combination with Goblin Welder. Also being able to shoot down critters and regenerating when chump blocking gives it some greatly received flexibility. If it doesn't work out the way i hope then it will be switched back to the 2nd Hellkite.
Then the changes that are planned when Ugin, the Spirit Dragon joines the party (received by mail):
-2 Karn Liberated for +2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Ugin is the new card everyone is excited about. This card is just what MUD was missing. A sweeper that can close out the game. Something that can change the boardstate from being bad, to (easily) winnable. So far it was pretty easy to have 8+ mana on T2/T3 with this version of the deck and i expect it to be a better shell for Ugin then Cloudpost is. This sounds unlogical to me to, but having played this version of the deck i can say it is just broken...
Ugin's +X does kill your Goblin Welder, but ask yourself this: "Do i care?". Goblin Welder enables the mana sources or revives board pressure so that you have time to drop Ugin. Once it does, you should be able to win from there without Welder. Or you just draw a new one. Also the same was true for All is Dust, but losing Welder just to sweep the board was a small price to pay to overcome a negative boardstate.
Sideboard:
-2 All is Dust for +2 Karn Liberated
-1 Staff of Domination for +1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Both are very strong. Being able to swift MUD into a more controllish build (vs Miracles) creates a state where especially Ugin will shine, but Karn should not be underestimated as a sort of advanced version of Liliana of the Veil. Also with the presence of Ugin, the staff is no longer required as an alternative wincon under Ensnaring Bridge. I hate that staff....
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Steel Hellkite/Masticore
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Goblin Welder
3 Lightning Greaves
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Karn Liberated
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
3 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Opal
2 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Sundering Titan
SB: 1 Platinum Emperion
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Staff of Domination
SB: 2 All Is Dust
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Minor changes; 1 sundering titan because meta and 1 staff of domination added because i kinda missed him and with all the 12post mana its a crime not to include him! :laugh:
'ugin's magical mana man land'
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
4 Metalworker
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Steel Hellkite
3 Scarecrone
4 Trinisphere
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thran Dynamo
1 Staff of Domination
2 Scroll Rack
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Vesuva
4 Mishra's Factory
4 City of Traitors
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Today i played the list posted above and went T4 on a 15 player event. -1 Staff and +1 Spine.
Some good players showed and had a blast playing. I ended 3-2 and nearly missed T4, but the 7 pointer matchup ended a draw and had best ranking with the 9 pointers. Anyway:
R1: Bug delver 0-2
G1: T1 Lodestone Golem. It was nearly a win, but i was not able to find more mana sources and my opponent was able to cast a Liliana. So close ad he was on 2 life.
G2, This time i had more business and had a T2 Golem with Lightning Greaves. Again he had a quick Liliana and held me off mana to recover.
R2: Moggcatcher Stompy 2-1
G1: i had Welder out and Masticore joined the party. he Moggcatched a Murderous Redcap and i was not able to flip Platinum Emporion back in with Welder. I did shoot down the Moggcatcher with Masticore, but i attacked with Masticore while i should have held him back to block. Tuktuk Scraper took Masticore out when i had no mana. Game.
G2 T3 Blighsteel Colossus with boots showed up.
G3 A couple of Rabblemaster kicked me to 3 life points, but i was able to Forge a Platinum Emporion while i still had the Forgemaster, Welder and Greaves online with a Wurmcoil to cast next turn. He could might have overextended with the 2 Rabblemasters.
R3: JunK Depths 2-0
G1: We durdled around for a bit and then i dropped a Sundering Titan taking out his 3 duals leaving him with Depths, Bojuka Bog and Maze of Ith. Goblin Welder tricks kept him of mana and i was able to beat down with a Titan and a Golem.
G2: was a bit harder, but Emperion prevented me from dying against a 10/10 something Knight of the Reliquary and was able to beat him down slowly with Emperion, Golem and Forgemaster.
R4: Miracles 2-0
G1 i was able to land a Metalworker and the next turn a Forgemaster. Tgose didnt get answered by stp to i went for an unprotected Blightsteel Colossus. he didnt draw stp or terminus and scooped.
G2 T1 i played Welder which got plowed. T2 i played Chalice on 1 which got fowd. T3 i played Golem. No answer. T4 i played a second Golem. Also no answer. He was stuck on 1 mana.
R5: DnT 0-2
This was a friend of mine. I feared this matchup a bit.
G1 i had a Metalworker. But he had Revoker. Then ik had Forgemaster but a second Revoker showed up and some beatings followed.
G2: we durdled a bit and i landed a Karn Liberated taking his Serra Avenger. He casted Councils Judgement. Then i had Steel Hellkite, but he had another Council. I couldnt recover.
T4: Same DnT player 0-2
G1 and G2 went pretty much the same. I was able to explode T1 and T2 but he was able to find the right answers. Masticore and Platinum Emperion showed up but it didnt matter.
The DnT is a tough one, aswell as the BUG matchup. I suppose i need more play time with this deck and try to find out how to play better against those decks.
The deck itself is really fast, but has slight problems maintaining. Might have to do with me overextending and making wrong decisions.
Also i might have missed Staff of Domination that could have won me the DnT MU. Not sure. I curtainly wished Ugin was in the deck. A lot of ocassions i was able to cast him and it would have made big difference.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mockingbird
Yea, I met the dude who piloted it. I was very impressed that he started playing the deck only the day before. Perhaps he was lying. I played him in my second round.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dcosiem
Yea, I met the dude who piloted it. I was very impressed that he started playing the deck only the day before. Perhaps he was lying. I played him in my second round.
Not that the deck doesn't take any skill to play well in terms of sequencing and stuff, but when MUD is running hot it's just about unbeatable. Great players can squeeze a bit more out of it, but if you draw well a monkey could play it and absolutely destroy most anything you put in front of it.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ruckusmh
Not that the deck doesn't take any skill to play well in terms of sequencing and stuff, but when MUD is running hot it's just about unbeatable. Great players can squeeze a bit more out of it, but if you draw well a monkey could play it and absolutely destroy most anything you put in front of it.
What is your point?
MUD is a good deck. If you know how to play against the format the deck is a monster, but it can still loose on lousy openings and bad draws.
Trying to brainless auto pilot this deck will give you free games, but that doesnt put you in top8. Especcially the Cloudpost variant which is typically 1-2 turns slower and fairly easy to disrupt.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
What's the Miracles match-up like? The primer doesn't seem to touch on the subject much...
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobmans
What is your point?
MUD is a good deck. If you know how to play against the format the deck is a monster, but it can still loose on lousy openings and bad draws.
Trying to brainless auto pilot this deck will give you free games, but that doesnt put you in top8. Especcially the Cloudpost variant which is typically 1-2 turns slower and fairly easy to disrupt.
Didn't mean to offend, MUD is the main deck I play at the moment. One of the reasons I love it is the sheer power.
No deck is easy to play at a high level, but when MUD runs well it is very difficult to interact with.
I'm still a little torn on wasteland vs the 4 cavern 4 vesuva plan, is there a general consensus or still up to preference?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
What's the Miracles match-up like? The primer doesn't seem to touch on the subject much...
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Favorable, but not the equivalent of a bye. Chalice for 1 is more effective than Trinisphere. MUD-Post has the strongest match-up out of all the MUD variants because Miracles always struggles with decks that have access to more mana (and things to abuse with it) than low curve decks (that also helps us deal with counterbalance-top lock). Generally, play Cavern of Souls and if Miracles is prevalent in your area, siding Eye of Ugin + Eldrazi just crushes them (the deck can naturally play Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and can even squeeze out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn if the game grinds long enough). Beware random Blood Moons. If you play Ratchet Bomb, save it for the Angels (also Ugin comes in handy in keeping their field under control). Otherwise, play normal as far as I know.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
What's the Miracles match-up like? The primer doesn't seem to touch on the subject much...
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Very good. You have to play it correctly but you should do well against Miracles the majority of the time.
Cavern of Souls, Revoker and Lodestone Golem are very important in this match up.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zirath
Very good. You have to play it correctly but you should do well against Miracles the majority of the time.
Cavern of Souls, Revoker and Lodestone Golem are very important in this match up.
miracles just dies from a well placed chalice or trinisphere. when i see entreat the angels it most often just creates 1 4/4 angel wich is\nt scary at all. Especially since glimmerpost can make quitte some life gain during a miracles game. Just calmly keep playing bigger threads and they cant do much about it.
I would like to point out that lodestone golems/ trinispheres best friend is wasteland. You dont have to sac them but you could when advantageous. I play 3 wasteland now just for these situations.
Land base currently:
24 -------
3 wasteland
3 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
3 vesuva
4 glimmerpost
4 cloudpost
3 mishra's factory
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ruckusmh
Not that the deck doesn't take any skill to play well in terms of sequencing and stuff, but when MUD is running hot it's just about unbeatable. Great players can squeeze a bit more out of it, but if you draw well a monkey could play it and absolutely destroy most anything you put in front of it.
I mean, he did make top 8. It was good that my friend beat him with Lands. I eventually saw my friend at the top table. I didn't want to see Mud twice at finals.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
MUD isn't the hardest deck to play, not by a long shot. But the sheer raw power it has is completely nuts, though.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Wohoo. (3x) Ugin has been delivered. Time to bust some nuts!!!
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobmans
Wohoo. (3x) Ugin has been delivered. Time to bust some nuts!!!
3x seems a little lot. Or is it?
