[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

+ 3 crop rotation

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not sure i want to go for Crop cuz i actually don't want to go in the dark depths deck combo style. Would like to keep the pox build since i played it for ages and wait till i can exile emrakul with hideaway. I was thinking that since he is one major win condition (remember u will also have the extra turn via hideaway) that ppl will start not playing their cards when they start to know how the deck works (even if most of the times it will be a surprise) .
Raven's crime perhaps could be a good addition.
I'm not a huge fan of sinkhole. I would go rather with something that discards both hands ...don't know.

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Originally Posted by guybrush3

WHAT ABOUT THIS LIST?
I'LL PLAY TEST IT TONIGHT

//Win Conditions (8)
4 HOWLTOOTH HOLLOW
1 Nether Spirit
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

//Discard (10)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 THOUGHTSIZE

//Land Destruction (4)
3 Wasteland


// Pox FX (12)
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 ABRUPT DECAY

//Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil

//CONTROL (3)
3 SENSEI ..OR sylvan
1 LIFE FROM THE LOAM

//Mana (4)
4 Dark Ritual

LANDS 13
BLACK & SPLASH GREEN

3 SLOTS LEFT TO CHOOSE, UP TO U. :wink:

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You Definitely want raven's crime and maybe an entomb or 2 so you can assure that you can force a situation that puts both players hellbent other wise hollow doesn't get there. On the flip side that plan has a huge flaw in it if you want the deck to run loam and that is Emrakul. His shuffle effect doesn't really allow you to take advantage of that kind of engine if you have 3 in your deck. Maybe I'm missing something but you're likely not hard casting Emrakul.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

You Definitely want raven's crime and maybe an entomb or 2 so you can assure that you can force a situation that puts both players hellbent other wise hollow doesn't get there. On the flip side that plan has a huge flaw in it if you want the deck to run loam and that is Emrakul. His shuffle effect doesn't really allow you to take advantage of that kind of engine if you have 3 in your deck. Maybe I'm missing something but you're likely not hard casting Emrakul.

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Yes raven deserves 2 spots. I think entomb is bad to raven crime it. No need for it. Even if it has a synergy with nether spirit. Yes emrakul will most of the time keep your graveyard empty since you will be discarding it with liliana and other stuff cuz you don't want it in your hand but on the top of your deck. So life from the loam doesn't actually fit. To achieve that maybe x1 living wish is better or even as someone just wrote, Crop rotation. He's right indeed. And with emrakul you can recover your hideaway land from the cemetery to then crop them. Tabernacle $$$ will be also a perfect card of course .

The point of this Emrapox deck is to control the board and wait till u can sylvan/sensei emrakul and cast it for free. It's a matter of time not of doing it fast. Just to point it out.
In fact instead of sense's or sylvan Scroll Rack will help you to put back emrakul but still not sure how strong it nowadays.
And of course I'm open for suggestions. :cool:

What about x2 of these?
Bottomless Pit opposite of phyrexian arena and random
they look quite awesome.
By the way it will be hard to cast emrakul during an opponent turn since he will keep the x1draw card in his hand and we play sorcery speed spells. Could that be a problem? I don't think there will be a difference if casting it during your turn after a Liliana discarding free effect or a spell casted before activating hideaway ability.
I can see problems against opponents who plays SENSEI (most of them!) since they can tap it in response and you will not have any instant speed spells to let them discard it...mmm will u be able to resolve the tap hideaway ability before? what goes on the stax first?

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Originally Posted by guybrush3

Yes raven deserves 2 spots. I think entomb is bad to raven crime it. No need for it. Even if it has a synergy with nether spirit. Yes emrakul will most of the time keep your graveyard empty since you will be discarding it with liliana and other stuff cuz you don't want it in your hand but on the top of your deck. So life from the loam doesn't actually fit. To achieve that maybe x1 living wish is better or even as someone just wrote, Crop rotation. He's right indeed. And with emrakul you can recover your hideaway land from the cemetery to then crop them. Tabernacle $$$ will be also a perfect card of course .

The point of this Emrapox deck is to control the board and wait till u can sylvan/sensei emrakul and cast it for free. It's a matter of time not of doing it fast. Just to point it out.
In fact instead of sense's or sylvan Scroll Rack will help you to put back emrakul but still not sure how strong it nowadays.
And of course I'm open for suggestions. :cool:

What about x2 of these?
Bottomless Pit opposite of phyrexian arena and random
they look quite awesome.
By the way it will be hard to cast emrakul during an opponent turn since he will keep the x1draw card in his hand and we play sorcery speed spells. Could that be a problem? I don't think there will be a difference if casting it during your turn after a Liliana discarding free effect or a spell casted before activating hideaway ability.
I can see problems against opponents who plays SENSEI (most of them!) since they can tap it in response and you will not have any instant speed spells to let them discard it...mmm will u be able to resolve the tap hideaway ability before? what goes on the stax first?

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My experience with pox is that the longer it takes to close the game, the more likely you are to lose control and end up losing. Just my view on it.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

My experience with pox is that the longer it takes to close the game, the more likely you are to lose control and end up losing. Just my view on it.

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Well it's not a fast deck. Since you usually kill with mishars and spirits... However, usually pox deck with Lilianas helps you go pretty through the half of the deck before winning and not losing control. But maybe I'm wrong.

Skip the bottomless pit, you have much more upside with a card like Gibbering Descent and abusing upkeep skipping, plus it's also a wincon that lilly helps you cast.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

My experience with pox is that the longer it takes to close the game, the more likely you are to lose control and end up losing. Just my view on it.

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Agreed. I love this deck, but would not leave home without DD/ Stage-combo.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

My experience with pox is that the longer it takes to close the game, the more likely you are to lose control and end up losing. Just my view on it.

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Agreed. Create a lock and land a finisher seems best. This is why I feel crop rotation combo with depths is the way to go. Otherwise there is no reason to go green, monoblack is better (imho) because you don't have durdely loams that slow you down. Abrupt decay isn't worth the splash alone, not even library (use top.) If you are committed to loam/decay then you really have two directions you can go:

1) entomb to enable broken control combos (crime + loam, waste + loam, find a worm harvest, setup a draw engine with loam + cycle lands.)

2) crop rotation with depths, which also gives you a lands-like toolbox to fight various matchups (bojuka bog, tabernacle, glacial chasm)

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Agreed. Create a lock and land a finisher seems best. This is why I feel crop rotation combo with depths is the way to go. Otherwise there is no reason to go green, monoblack is better (imho) because you don't have durdely loams that slow you down. Abrupt decay isn't worth the splash alone, not even library (use top.) If you are committed to loam/decay then you really have two directions you can go:

1) entomb to enable broken control combos (crime + loam, waste + loam, find a worm harvest, setup a draw engine with loam + cycle lands.)

2) crop rotation with depths, which also gives you a lands-like toolbox to fight various matchups (bojuka bog, tabernacle, glacial chasm)

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mmm yeah these are 2 famous ways u can play the deck of course. I agree with this. I played Depths when it came out (it was quite different at the time). What I was trying to do is to control the board and finish with the land+emrakul finisher (not sure it works but it will be fun to make that happen) .
Loam won't be in the deck cuz of emrakul as we just pointed out in a previous post, crop rotation will. I think the green splash doesn't create problems with mana. Two colors in a pox deck are always NOT a problem and abrupt decay helps a lot with non discarded early annoying permanents. About sylvan/sensei I will say...whatever. :)
ps:Liliana Vess x1? tutors emrakul ,discard engine and...yeah COST 5 mana, crap :)

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Originally Posted by guybrush3

mmm yeah these are 2 famous ways u can play the deck of course. I agree with this. I played Depths when it came out (it was quite different at the time). What I was trying to do is to control the board and finish with the land+emrakul finisher (not sure it works but it will be fun to make that happen) .
Loam won't be in the deck cuz of emrakul as we just pointed out in a previous post, crop rotation will. I think the green splash doesn't create problems with mana. Two colors in a pox deck are always NOT a problem and abrupt decay helps a lot with non discarded early annoying permanents. About sylvan/sensei I will say...whatever. :)
ps:Liliana Vess x1? tutors emrakul ,discard engine and...yeah COST 5 mana, crap :)

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As much as I love GB Pox and personally feel it is usually a better choice, I think this deck is better suited as a mono black build. You are not using Green to its potential if you are not heavy into Loam, Crop Rotation, and abrupt decay. I play 27-29 lands depending on the day and I sometime have color issues, make sure it is worth it.

In order to activated the "all players hellbent" clause on Hollow you want to be heavier discard than most Pox. Pox attacks all resources but you want to focus on hands, if you spend a card like sinkhole attacking mana that is more cards stranded in their hand and one less card for you to make them discard with. Liliana Vess fits the deck well setting up Hollow but Sensei's Top can do similar things for less mana, I don't think you are running enough mana for either right now, Top is the most mana hungry cmc 1 card every printed.

If you are really keen on splashing I think Blue may be better, it gives you more ways to set up Hollow with brainstorm or Jace, it also give you Propaganda to stall their creatures without shutting off your Emrakul.

You could also go more combo with a red splash for Stronghold Gambit, your discard can clear the way, in addition to being great against storm or lands. You can also play Grave Titan for a big threat that can be hard cast in a pinch.

Either way I think you need to commit to a splash if you want to go that way, both getting full value of the extra color and making sure your mana can support it.

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

As much as I love GB Pox and personally feel it is usually a better choice, I think this deck is better suited as a mono black build. You are not using Green to its potential if you are not heavy into Loam, Crop Rotation, and abrupt decay. I play 27-29 lands depending on the day and I sometime have color issues, make sure it is worth it.

In order to activated the "all players hellbent" clause on Hollow you want to be heavier discard than most Pox. Pox attacks all resources but you want to focus on hands, if you spend a card like sinkhole attacking mana that is more cards stranded in their hand and one less card for you to make them discard with. Liliana Vess fits the deck well setting up Hollow but Sensei's Top can do similar things for less mana, I don't think you are running enough mana for either right now, Top is the most mana hungry cmc 1 card every printed.

If you are really keen on splashing I think Blue may be better, it gives you more ways to set up Hollow with brainstorm or Jace, it also give you Propaganda to stall their creatures without shutting off your Emrakul.

You could also go more combo with a red splash for Stronghold Gambit, your discard can clear the way, in addition to being great against storm or lands. You can also play Grave Titan for a big threat that can be hard cast in a pinch.

Either way I think you need to commit to a splash if you want to go that way, both getting full value of the extra color and making sure your mana can support it.

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mmm if I'm going to play blue i think I'm gonna play it only for those 3 cards u just mentioned and for nothing else. Brain and jace work well but I'm still not sure about it. Abrupt decay is so strong. I don't need blue for propaganda when i can play ensnaring bridge. And if I go blue it will better to play show and tell than stronghold. I can see working a package of x4 brainstorm x2 jace and x2 show and tell instead of the x2crop rotation + x4abrupt + x2sylvan green pack.
About the sinkholes; i'm not playing them for the reasons u just said. But still, i'm considering the POX deck build since 80% of the cards are played in POX decks :)

So I know I never really pop in here and comment. I saw a few things about U splash builds. I figured I may share this build with you all. I tend to stick to the mtgsalvation forums and a few years back some ideas about UB and BUG came up. Well I recently started testing blue cards in general and decided to test them within pox. I call this build:

Shardless Pox (60)

Lands 23
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Lumbering Falls
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Creatures 6
3 Shardless Agent
3 Tombstalker

Spells 31
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancestral Vision
3 Brainstorm
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Innocent Blood
3 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard 15
1 Academy Ruins
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
1 Maze of Ith
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Toxic Deluge

I wrote an article about it as well. You can view it here. I am curious to get feedback. http://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/20...shardless-pox/

I wouldn't run Mox Diamond in a Cascade deck, but thats just me. Cascading into Smallpox seems pretty cool, kind of like casting Smallpox with a Young Pyromancer on board.

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Originally Posted by rlesko

I wouldn't run Mox Diamond in a Cascade deck, but thats just me. Cascading into Smallpox seems pretty cool, kind of like casting Smallpox with a Young Pyromancer on board.

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Very similar. It has been delightful. I have had a few awkward moments with Cascade into Diamond but for the most part with Library and Brainstorm it has been a non issue.

JUST FELT IN LOVE WITH :

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...0_strangle.jpg


// Multi FX POX core (land dest, creature, discard)
4 Smallpox - does everything
1 Pox the Mum

//Win Conditions
2 Tomb of urami kills with risk
1 reanimate kills with fun
1 tombstalker kills

//Discard
4 Inquisition of Kozilek slow non land under 3cmc down
4 Hymn to Tourach slow everything down
2 encroach slow mana down

//Land Destruction /Denial
4 Wasteland slow both down for 0cmc
4Sinkhole slow mana down
4 Stranglehold shuts down multiple mana sources
2 pardic miner can't describe:)

//control the board
1 crucible of worlds recovering

//Planeswalkers
3Liliana of the Veil the BOSS

//Mana
4 Dark Ritual allows you fantastic turn 1 and stranglehold turn2
4 bloodstained mire
2 mountain
4 swamp
4badlands
1cabal pit with crucible it could do something good
1barbarian ring with crucible it could do something good [/cards]

I have left a x3 slot for u to add :) maybe 3 sensei or 3 crack the hearth

Everything started trying to build a land destruction deck for legacy. But as we know with so small cmc drops it's quite impossible to play these days. And when I tried to imagine the match up it was always in a bad result. Sinkhole and other land destruction cards that cost 2 or 3 aren't just the same. And you will always be 1 turn behind (especially if he starts and if he plays mana creatures-> like everyone.
However I'm posting this in the pox thread cuz in the end it's about destroying the opponent resources, starting from lands. It's quite similar to a pox deck but with a red splash cuz of stranglehold . I think it really works well in a pox deck with dark ritual. Turn 2 close the water of the opponent fetches. I mean who doesn't play them? I mean is just too good and asymmetrical. However it deserves a teste.

I really like pardic mineras a sinkhole/orimchant card and it might deserves a spot but for now i'll have to play test it, maybe is just crap.
I added a reanimate as a win condition since the opponent will be discarding stuff via hymn and blablabla + u can target your tomb or Miner for one more land denial turn for1cmc.
Trini and crucible in small copies make their business.


A must card in side would be BOIL.

I'd suggest Solfatara and Turf Wound since they replace themselves. Granted, they're one more mana, but you do have Sinkholes to supplement speed right?

Aside from Dredge and a few 1 land combo decks, I find LD to be effective if you have enough, hence why my current build now runs 4 Pox. I just couldn't find a better LD for 3 mana. Considered Blight [ew] and Rancid Earth but for the mana and defensive power that Pox brings [kill that threat], it gives heavy land decks like Miracles a run for its money.

I too love LD and am of the philosophy that if you're running a traditional land killer, you need to play threats and pound their life totals first, THEN keep them on 0 mana for as long as you can, so Dark Ritual summoned creatures, or suspend, or 1-2 cmc drops become necessary. Pox however, is not traditional and just kills everything, which is also good. :smile:

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

I'd suggest Solfatara and Turf Wound since they replace themselves. Granted, they're one more mana, but you do have Sinkholes to supplement speed right?

Aside from Dredge and a few 1 land combo decks, I find LD to be effective if you have enough, hence why my current build now runs 4 Pox. I just couldn't find a better LD for 3 mana. Considered Blight [ew] and Rancid Earth but for the mana and defensive power that Pox brings [kill that threat], it gives heavy land decks like Miracles a run for its money.

I too love LD and am of the philosophy that if you're running a traditional land killer, you need to play threats and pound their life totals first, THEN keep them on 0 mana for as long as you can, so Dark Ritual summoned creatures, or suspend, or 1-2 cmc drops become necessary. Pox however, is not traditional and just kills everything, which is also good. :smile:

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I considered them but in the end they are just to slow at 3cmc. Even if you draw I think it will be too late...I would rather play red small small POX :cool:tremble ,Crack the Earth or raze (good cuz u target a basic but no good cuz if they counter it u r fuckdUP)...And when you have three mana you just want to cast crucible or a liliana or a trini or even another hymn to touch to gain card advantage and then hit them again on turn 4. Sinkhole supplements speed but he needs help. And since there aren't any sinkhole copies around (no they are not, blight and rancid are, again to slow) then that's why you slow opponent down with smallpox and other pox deck stuff. However here we run 13 LD (sink,small and big pox,waste) + 2 Miners (have to test them) .
I think what i'm trying to do is to pox them like a pox deck but in another way we shut all their mana down in a pretty good way. Stranglehold really is amazing in legacy.
Pox is awesome cuz in pox deck is asymettrical. Maybe I should run 2. 4 are too much cuz i want to control the board at one point with my mana.

Boom Bust x4 would be nice cuz they cost 2cmc and act as a sinkhole if you target a fetch land. In that case you could be able to play a turn 2 Boom tapping 1 land and 1 chrome/diamond mox while targeting your second land just dropped and sacrifice it for another land. Ofc we should play moxes ... or simian spirit guide. But in this way if u are sure to play a lot of fetches is like having x8 sinkholes on turn 2 ( helps with % chance to LD ) . Mox could be good also to avoid smallpox bad effects on you. Can dark ritual and mox x8 go togheter in a deck? mmmm
example1:
turn1 - land+ chrome mox= sinkhole
turn2 - drop fetchland+ boom or sinkhole = more % to do this now plus 1 mana available to cast a 1cmc spell . Dark ritual and trini? dark ritual and whatever? or just a inquisition.
or also example2
turn1 - land+dark ritual=sinkhole+1cmc free
turn2 drop chrome mox + fetchland = boom or sinkhole

wanna play without discarding ? lotus petal might be better. gives you black and red.
This way u will have x8 sinkholes effects at 2cmc in the deck. Pretty good i think.
And if you won't have a fetch land u can still slow down the game symmetrically.
Remember that dark ritual with stranglehold won't be a top bad card cuz u will be short on mana too cuz of poxes.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

So I know I never really pop in here and comment. I saw a few things about U splash builds. I figured I may share this build with you all. I tend to stick to the mtgsalvation forums and a few years back some ideas about UB and BUG came up. Well I recently started testing blue cards in general and decided to test them within pox. I call this build:

Shardless Pox (60)

Lands 23
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Lumbering Falls
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Creatures 6
3 Shardless Agent
3 Tombstalker

Spells 31
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancestral Vision
3 Brainstorm
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Innocent Blood
3 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard 15
1 Academy Ruins
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
1 Maze of Ith
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Toxic Deluge

I wrote an article about it as well. You can view it here. I am curious to get feedback. http://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/20...shardless-pox/

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.i like the tombstalkers in your build..with all that disruption, its bound to resolve..its like "kicking-the-table-and-then-kill-your-opponent-while-he's-down" strategy..and yes, the diamonds would've been awkward with shardless agent if it weren't for the brainstorms and library so good deckbuilding there..would you consider running top too? maybe a 1/1 split between it and the library?
what match-ups did you consider when you added the singleton academy ruins at the side? was it there to recur the engineered explosives? what do you think of buried ruin?

How do you guys play against Dredge?
Tactics from the board?
And what does your win% look like from game1 compared to game2/3?

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Originally Posted by slave

How do you guys play against Dredge?
Tactics from the board?
And what does your win% look like from game1 compared to game2/3?

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I just concede game 1 once I recognize their opening land, or die to an LED turn-1 kill. The less information they have, the easier it is to board against them and they can't board against you cause they don't know what GY hate you can bring. Saves time as well. I run Extirpates and Leyline of the Void. Leyline is the auto-win against some Dredge decks (laugh in the face of mana-less dredge)

Game 1 is 0%. Pox helps dredge too much.