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To be honest, I've been falling down on my testing duties, so I can't really speak to how good (or not good) Jitte is these days... But the thought is that it would help mostly against Zoo, Goblins, stuff like that... to an extent. I seem to recall having some real problems getting a Jitte equipped in these match-ups though, so you may be on to something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Anyhow, what would you replace these two slots with?
Yeah, my thoughts. I can equip it fine. I just can't seem to connect with it very often. Chill. I bring in Blue Blasts and Chill.Quote:
But the thought is that it would help mostly against Zoo, Goblins, stuff like that... to an extent. I seem to recall having some real problems getting a Jitte equipped in these match-ups though, so you may be on to something.
I tried Chill but it didn't work for me. Goblins has Lackeys and Aether Vials, while Zoo has nonred stuff that still kicks your behind, among them are Pridemages which kill Chill if they have to.
I could see this. I like Chill, sort of, but the reason I've never ran it is it seems like such a card that demands you to play it as early as possible in order to really fuck the opponent. To that effect, I feel like it wouldn't be good if I ran less than four copies in my board. And it just seems like there are cards with more broad applications I could put in those four slots. I suppose more Blue Blasts are pretty much always good for us though. Or Mind Harness/ Threads, since they do similar things to Elemental Blasts, in a certain sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Anyhow Finn and Skeggi, what do y'all think of Chalice as a sideboard card for us, have you tested it much?
Has anyone tested wash out in the SB? I've had alot of luck with it at my local tourney, pretty much hoses all mono colored decks.
(I apologize if this was already discussed, i didnt see it)
My Current SB looks like:
4 Hydroblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Wash Out
4 Submerge
3 Relic of Progenitus
Wash out is pretty much just an expensive Hibernation. What colors other than Green are you going to want it against?
Wash Out gets brought up every now and again. Clearly Wash Out has a powerful effect, but in my experience it is pretty weak. For starters, it is a Sorcery that costs 4. It can be handy against swarm decks like Goblins and Elves if you can manage it in time, but honestly it isn't really good unless you are close to victory. That is, it won't dig you out because all their guys come back - and many of them have really good comes-into-play effects. And it is obviously bad in the mirror. The one thing I want to say about it is that Goblins and Elves remain two of the pretty bad matchups.
@DDK: Chalice seems pretty extreme considering the cards in this deck. I can't see bringing it in against Thresh or any of the other cantrip decks that Stompy gets to use it on. So that means it is just an anti-storm card. And you only really want to use it if you skip out on Stifle. Hmm. I am pretty sure I don't like it.
How about sleep in the board for against tribal decks? Build up an army, tap their guys for 2 turns, and just kill them. Seems like it could be playable.
Might the new Whiplash Trap be at all useful in SB against Goblins and Elves? They tend to bomb into play. I haven't tried it yet, so just a thought. Might give it a whirl as a proxy and see what happens.
I'm on the fence with Jitte too. Problem is, it singlehandedly wins some games, but other games it just doesn't get equipped. I err on the side of leaving it in at the moment since it can be used to take out other Jittes, though, which happens more than I would have anticipated.
The only problem with Whiplash Trap that i see is it only bounces two creatures. Usually with Goblins and Elves they've got many more threats than two, it seems worthless once they've got a decent size army built on their side. Whiplash Trap can be threatening early on, but once they're stable it seems like a drop in a bucket.
After investigating the card "Sleep" I've decided to try it in place of Washout. Theyre both 4cc Sorceries, but Sleep lasts an extra combat phase. That could be very useful.
My prediction is that you're going to find both Sleep and Washout to be a little too slow for Legacy... Just to warn ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyPinkBunnies
Just another thought:
Has anyone tried Tidal Warrior?
Tidal Warrior U
T: target land becomes an Island until end of turn.
1/1
He seems like he might work well, giving the merfolk player the ability to make all folk unblockable or disrupting key spells like damnation,Wrath of god etc, by making that 2nd plains or swamp an island, or even ruining their Hymn to Tourach to save your FoWs, Daze and Standstills.
Tidal Warrior used to be in Merfolk as a color denier and islandwalk enabler., as you've mentioned. The problem is that the slots in the deck are pretty tight. The Merfolk in the deck are either good on their own or a Lord effect. I don't put TW on the same tier as the lord effects, so he's either competing with the other Merfolk or the spot that Stifles are generally in. Wake Thrasher is the only guy I've considered running over a couple of Lord spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyPinkBunnies
I'm hoping for some new goodies from Zendikar (someone said the Orb had 14 instances of Merfolk). And what we've seen so far pales in comparison to Lackey 5-8 (I'm sold that Goblins is going to add it permanently). All we can do is hope for goodies.
Yeah I run two mainboard. He's awesome when you're facing a deck that you feel comfortable dropping your entire hand with, like against Elves or a deck with no elimination, but you really need three Merfolk out (Tidal Warrior + Lord of Atlantis + another Merfolk) to really make him effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyPinkBunnies
Sometimes I do the Island shenanigans with my opponent but it's a hit or miss thing because sometimes turning it into an island doesn't really matter.
And for the record, I generally only want to see him in my opening hand; if I draw him, I'd rather have a Jitte or a lord instead.
EDIT: Dammit Pat.
I have been doing some testing with the merfolk archetype and I do have to say that Jitte has been better than I expected it to be. In the zoo matchup it is great at destroying their Jitte, and in the control matchup it can usually draw a counter...(If I do not land an early Vial)
Tidal Warrior is good in its own place but as they have said that the spots are not open for him. I have been running him in one of my versions although it does not play as well. Wake Thrasher is a house against so many decks. He can swing the game or he can at least draw a removal spell.
My only concern with this archetype is that I have seen basically two versions rising. There is the version running stifles to accent the mana denial and there is the version that runs spell snares as more counters. Which version does anyone who plays merfolk competitively find more appealing. And is there a reason that counterbalance does not see play in this? Or is it only becuase the deck does not have room? (I apologize if this has been brought up before. But I was curious)
Before i started to play merfs i asked almost the same question. I asked if its possible to fit a meathooks shell in a merfs shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Resist_Temptation
Forgot the response that i got but basically the reply was its not a good idea.
Now that i've played merfs for a long time i would say that is not a good idea aswell.
For the reasons being:
1. Merfs needs 2-3 lords to bash heads with other creatures.
2. Counterbalance Shell is build towards control which merfs isn't its only gameplan besides aggro is tempo via stifles or bounce.
3. Merfs don't have a singleton creature like crystalline sliver or tarmogoyf, thats why eventhough slivers are much smaller as compared to merfs via lord effect they have more survivability thus they could use countertop
4. Fish type decks might be a much better fit if to run countertop
The basic and core concept for a merf deck to be effective for me are:
1. do light disruption
2. counter cards that will sweep or hinder your creatures
3. attack
Jitte is really good but i decided to make it as an SB card as compared to Main, it all depends on your build aswell. I run 20 creatures, 2 bounce & 11 countermagics not including cursecatcher.
I used to main jitte but in the long run i didn't find it to be as a must card its really a house against random aggro, elves or decks that dont run removals like merfs (mono) but if your up against decks that packs red sweepers to zoo decks your jitte is just going to sit on the board.
Merfs for me has a really hard time creating its army especially against red sweepers or decks that packs tons of removal like zoo.
I have not had too much of an issue against burn. I end up drawing competently and they spend the first turn or so hitting my face then they play keep up by killing my lords. eventually my lords soak enough damage to save me from dying, and I do not really lose that much of a clock. Without lords the clock is much slower but still existent.
And against zoo I have no idea what I can do before board. every once in a great while I will win game 1, but the chances do not look good.
For sideboard slots how do people feel about this as a sideboard. Just assume my maindeck looks really close to the normal lists with stifles main. In my meta Burn is very prevelant along with janky RG aggroes, and there are quite a few people who play Aggro Loam, and the Random Ichorid which I face everytime I sign up to play.
4 Spell Snare
2 Mind Harness
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Propaganda
R_T your sideboard is fine. I would mention that you don't have a solution for artifacts and enchantments. So, no answer for Aether Vial or Moat, both of which are really hard on this deck.
I really like Submerge in the Sideboard, honestly. It has been MVP for me. Especially in response to them using a fetch land. Stupid Tarmogoyfs.
At one time I was running Submerge, but honestly I would much rather take their tarmogoyf for a while. And I just happen to be king of drawing lands...so mind harness happens to be better than it would normally be.
Also I have not ran into moat being a problem. The decks that are running it do not give me a problem because most of the things that they are playing, I do not need to counter. Which leaves my forces for the moat.
My answer for artifacts used to be the blue enchant...(cannot think of the name for the life of me) but I do not like running anything that costs 3 mana and cannot be vialed in.