-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spacebeest
Hey guys,
I have been reading this forum for years now, so i thought it was time to contribute.
I'm a deadguy player, do not have much tournament experience (only played around 10 small tournaments i suppose, one top 4 finish and once top 20 at a 120+ tournament) but i love this deck a lot.
Against stoneblade decks i love te targeted discard, even post board. Especially thoughtseize has been huge for me. Wait till they drop their stoneforge to get an equipment (prev. batterskull) and discard it out of their hand leaves them with a squire in play. Playing this way ensures that batterskull will not hit play later, this has won me some games versus other stoneblade decks. For me this matchup often comes down to who has the equipment. Maybe with True name nemesis this changes somewhat, however this line of play is still possible since they are only at two mana.
Welcome.
I have been thinking about siding Cabal Therapy to replace my point discard against Stoneforge decks and to supplement it against combo. Goes really well with Liliana and Souls, and they really won't expect to see it games 2 & 3. If you wait until you know what they're holding, you can always get another problem card even that same turn if you have a creature out.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Tried out the Pack Rat yet? Its the real deal, insane against any fair deck.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Whats the matchup like against DnT? I felt it was miserable. They're just the better hate bear deck. And they can shut off your Liliana and protect their stuff with Mom. Revoker was really annoying.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
My matchup is fairly good vs death and taxes. I board into mass removal in games 2 and 3. Plus I already have a lot of removal main.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
hey all im new to legacy, this deck and this forum (dont know how to link cards).
so i have been running this for a bit and loving it but sneak and show is on the rise in my meta and i was wondering if it would be worth it to put 1-2 karakus and 2-3 KoR in to help.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Bayou
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Isolated Chapple
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Shriekmaw
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Phyrexean Revoker
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate
sb
1 Choke
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Rest in Peace
3 Zealous Persecution
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Disfigure
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered plague
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim111589
hey all im new to legacy, this deck and this forum (dont know how to link cards).
so i have been running this for a bit and loving it but sneak and show is on the rise in my meta and i was wondering if it would be worth it to put 1-2 karakus and 2-3 KoR in to help.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Bayou
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Isolated Chapple
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Shriekmaw
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Phyrexean Revoker
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate
sb
1 Choke
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Rest in Peace
3 Zealous Persecution
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Disfigure
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered plague
Dont like that forest, with no abrubt decays their is really now point of playing a basic forest. Plains is normally the worst card in the deck but forest is even worse. Forest cast 4 card in the main and 1 in the board. Decks you want the choke against barely plays wastelands.
Pinpoint discard effects are very strong against the sneak and show deck, most wins comes from casting them and strip their hand of all the business. Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Cabal Therapy and Duress are the cards you want against them.
Overall I have been more impressed by Sword of Feast and Famine then Sword of Fire and Ice. Thinking of going over to it in the main instead. My meta is more combobased.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
The death and taxes match up just kinda depends on your build. Key thing is not allowing mom to get online. Keeping a hand without the ability to kill it on the draw is tough. Game one I think Bob is one thing that is great for us to have that they don't have access to.
As for that list, I'd play no less than the full set of thought seize personally. Your list is pretty close to mine and I've never had trouble with sneak and show personally. Revoker is awesome here. I agree on the forest. It's horrible. I'd try to pick up another black fetch in its place because always having food for death rite is nice. Discard into hate bear of some sort is generally a pretty solid game plan. I'm still personally on the fence about how much I like Thalia right now...
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Right. Between the mass amount of 3 CMC non creatures we play and the fact that she mostly shines in non show and tell combo (despite show and tell being the most played combo), I waver on her. Maybe instead of Thalia, more Revoker/Spirit/Whatever Show and Tell hate people play is better? Revoker and Spirit are still pretty damn good against storm in conjunction with discard. Or maybe just straight up Duress out of the board.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
I think Thalia next to Lingering Souls is pretty bad and next to Sorin it gets even worse. I'd probably find a creature who makes tokens instead of Souls if keeping Thalia. Something like Doomed Traveler (support him with Cabal Therapy for instance), Precinct Captain (meh, but if it starts getting through?), Hero of Bladehold (awesome if you run Mom.)
Thalia is alright against Miracles anyway and I would most certainly choose between non-critter token makers and Thalia. The Doomed Traveler thing was a brew I tried once. It was kinda fun to double or triple therapy pretty often. I like Therapy next to SFM as well (she's a free body.) In my case, I'm boarding Vindicates as miracles hate (since if you keep them off of white they have a very hard time winning) instead of token makers so I can support thalia.
I will third the Forest, without Decay it doesn't deserve the slot. Decay vs. Vindicate should dictate your basics; as the things that are going to color/land screw you can be dealt with via those cards (moon, Delver's aggro)
EDIT: I still like her in the S&T MU. She slows them a turn which can mean you get some extra discard in there or that extra swing. It's not amazing, but it's alright. I think most S&T MUs I win it's helped by her mana-screwing.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Went 3-1 in my weekly tonight beating RUG (new player), Tezz & Burn and losing to RUG (seasoned player)
My list:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Light & Shadow
1 Sword of Fire & Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Humility
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Bitterblossom
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Enlightened Tutor
All matches 2-1 except I 2-0'd burn. Kitchen Finks was definitely a difference maker in the burn matchup. It also helped me stabilize and keep a Lili alive with a threat on the table in one of my RUG games. I really like the no-skull, Kitchen Finks, full set of Souls configuration. Didn't play against a Stoneforge deck with my Therapies though, unfortunately. Usually I 3-2 Thoughtseize/Inquisition but I wanted to bring in Mirran and RIP against Goyf decks.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Hey everyone So I have been slowly acquiring cards and I am looking for what people think of my current list and if you have any comments or question please leave them I am looking for advice and sideboarding suggestions the sideboard I have is kind of thrown together for what i saw at a few local tournaments that i have attended
4 Aether Vial
3 Mother of Ruins
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Serra Avenger
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Plains
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Gerrard's Verdict
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Plague
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Disenchant
Thank you im trying to finialize my list for the up coming Legacy GPs
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Seems like a very low amount of creatures for a vial deck
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Seems like a very low amount of creatures for a vial deck
Yeah. 15 or so seems a bit low for a Aether Vial deck. I'd say it should be at least 20 creatures. Also, no Dark Confidant? That seems wrong.
Eidolon of Rhetoric. That's the Rule of Law dude, right? Never tested him out, but seems a bit slow for Legacy. I'd rather try Canonist and/or Thalia.
s94787j: If you want to see a Black Death and Taxes list, check out Richard Cheese's list. It's on this thread somewhere. I would say it's the most optimal black taxes list I've seen.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
I highly recommend black and taxes. Very fun deck to play. If I owned ports I'd play it more often
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wilkin
Yeah. 15 or so seems a bit low for a Aether Vial deck. I'd say it should be at least 20 creatures. Also, no Dark Confidant? That seems wrong.
Eidolon of Rhetoric. That's the Rule of Law dude, right? Never tested him out, but seems a bit slow for Legacy. I'd rather try Canonist and/or Thalia.
s94787j: If you want to see a Black Death and Taxes list, check out Richard Cheese's list. It's on this thread somewhere. I would say it's the most optimal black taxes list I've seen.
Sorry yes there is bob in the list I apologize it didnt transfer well from where i had it saved. with out seeing the black death and taxes list i have a second version that i have been considering that takes out the vials and puts in Lilliana of the Veil and 1-2 flex slots. Sorry for not responding sooner was having issues with the site on my end due to keyboard issues. The sideboard was just from me screwing around i normally play 2-1 split of Canonist and Thalia but as always my sideboards are super flexable and always changing until my mainboard is more set in stone
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Can anyone post a link to the latest Black and Taxes list? As of right now after selling my paper collection D&T and Deadguy Ale are the only decks I can play atm. I love not having to play blue to feel cool!
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Madmankevinx
Can anyone post a link to the latest Black and Taxes list? As of right now after selling my paper collection D&T and Deadguy Ale are the only decks I can play atm. I love not having to play blue to feel cool!
I don't know if anyone ever did much work on that besides me, and my list never really changed much from the first iteration: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...th-Black-Taxes
I think if I were going to make changes, I'd consider moving the Scullers to the board over maindeck Flickerwisps or Avengers. There were several times where I felt like I needed a better clock, but in a couple of those games I just drew multiples of Mom or Vial.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Yeah I have a list somewhere in here but I only played it a few times. And I agree on the point about avenger. I never played flicker wisp though. Don't think I had any 3 drop creatures actually. My 1 was Mom, then I had stoneforges, Thalia, Bob, avenger, and maybe like 2 sculler? It was death and taxes with Bob and thought seize essentially.
Edit: I actually also had 3-4 revoker, I think instead of sculler
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
I don't know if anyone ever did much work on that besides me, and my list never really changed much from the first iteration:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...th-Black-Taxes
I think if I were going to make changes, I'd consider moving the Scullers to the board over maindeck Flickerwisps or Avengers. There were several times where I felt like I needed a better clock, but in a couple of those games I just drew multiples of Mom or Vial.
I would try it out but i cant get ports at a resonable price but everyother part of the list looks good and i would be tempted to try it
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Okay so what are the common sideboard cards the people use and for what match up im trying to build a more set board.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
I think e tutor boards are fairly common. Some people are more on that plan than I though. I only use it for devastating effects, plus I like having a real side board for the most part.
Here's my current list:
2 Zealous persecution
2 Disenchant
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Engineered Plague
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdiggers Cafe
1 Perish
1 Choke
Sometimes I'll have a second perish over the cage because both are good against elves, but perish is solid versus the BUG decks
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
My current sideboard is:
1 Enlightened tutor
1 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Stoney Silence
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Disfigure
2 Zealour Persecution
Tutor can also find the maindecked Spirit of the labyrinth.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
The 8 discard isn't terrible, but I feel like your total deck is pretty weak to combo. The 8 discard is a decent start, but aside from that you have a tutor, a Canonist, a Stony Silence, and a Spirit.
I think the 2x Seal of Cleansing should go; for any hatebear that matters (probably a pair of Thalia, a Tutor and a Canonist, or some such.)
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rizso
My current sideboard is:
1 Enlightened tutor
1 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Stoney Silence
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Disfigure
2 Zealour Persecution
Tutor can also find the maindecked Spirit of the labyrinth.
I have a spirit main as well. I forgot about pithing needle since I let my friend borrow it. I'm not sure what I'd drop for it, but I would certainly play a needle somewhere
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tescrin
The 8 discard isn't terrible, but I feel like your total deck is pretty weak to combo. The 8 discard is a decent start, but aside from that you have a tutor, a Canonist, a Stony Silence, and a Spirit.
I think the 2x Seal of Cleansing should go; for any hatebear that matters (probably a pair of Thalia, a Tutor and a Canonist, or some such.)
There is actually quite alot of hate after the board. Need to attack them on many diffrent angles, A Ethersword Canonist wont stop a storm deck really from go off on turn 3 or 4, neither would a Thalia. Against storm after board I have 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Inquisition, 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth, tutur, Ethersworn Canonist, Stony Silence, Grafdiggers Cage, and 2 Pithing Needle with wasteland.
The amount of show and tell decks in europe is way lower then they are in US.
For the seal I like it more then Disenchants as it can come down before Counterbalance gets cast. Only card Im thinking of cuting in the board is the o-ring for an other tutor.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rizso
There is actually quite alot of hate after the board. Need to attack them on many diffrent angles, A Ethersword Canonist wont stop a storm deck really from go off on turn 3 or 4, neither would a Thalia. Against storm after board I have 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Inquisition, 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth, tutur, Ethersworn Canonist, Stony Silence, Grafdiggers Cage, and 2 Pithing Needle with wasteland.
The amount of show and tell decks in europe is way lower then they are in US.
Yes they do. Canonist says "you have to kill me to win" which actually *does* keep them from winning T3/4 because unless they have natural kill-spell/bounce they can't wish + kill it in one go; and even if it were another hatebear, 5-6 mana is a lot for thalia and 4-5 mana is a reasonably high amount to waste on your "go off turn" if you have Teeg or some such.
My complaint is also that Spirit does roughly nothing IMO since it doesn't stop any means of attack (PiF chain, AN, natural Warrens/Tendrils.) You're banking on them needing to cantrip instead of them having the unlikely "I have 4-6 extra mana AND an extra wish." When a deck can reliably go off T2; you need something that says "you have to wait a turn or three"; which gives you time to beat in, set up DRS with open mana (or other grave hate), and get their life low enough for AN that they can't reliably use it. This leaves them with natural warrens/tendrils.
8 discard is a good start, but you need things that say "you can't win" and I really think it should be 1-2 more hatebears (or a 1/1 split with a second tutor.) The reason is because they can just topdeck their win out of nowhere. SS is good here. Canonist is good here. Tutors are OK here. I think I'd even prefer a bunch of Scullers to the Spirits and Oring.
Also, how is Pithing Needle storm hate? On lands? I feel like you've played against ANT too much and not TES; which FME is generally much stronger. Revoker is OK hate, but Needle doesn't do anything here unless you're getting a lucky fetch with it. Cage is fine to board in, but I don't count grave hate as storm hate generally since they don't have to rely on PiF to win.
If I'm honest, I don't like O Ring as S&T hate either. You have to show it to them first, they have to not have sneak attack and it's pretty bad against Griselbrand. I feel like if you're going that direction then you should go Ensnaring Bridge. It doesn't matter what they Show into play then and you are guaranteed safe while you're plinking them with DRS. O Ring isn't generally good for Omnishow either; given that they typically want to go off in a "safe" way (trickbind with wish) and with a Tutor you tell them that they want to go off "now" or with a wish; depending when you do it.
I realize why you have Seal, I'm just saying that it's pretty garbage. You could do the same thing with a light green splash (1 Bayou, 1 Savannah?) and use Decay or you could use QPM in the same manner you're suggesting.
I also feel like using pack rat without Mutavault is weird. It's a free combat trick that happens to be decent against miracles as is (manland) and you're running 25 lands. If you're going to be 2-3 lands above normal those slots should pull their weight. Cabal Pit would also be acceptable IMO.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Hi guys,
Megadeus, I saw your mainboard Revokers and i love your idea, i just have to play those. I removed 4x hymn for 2x Revoker and more 1 cc discard. I like to play discard before dropping a Stoneforge to make sure it sticks, and i feel that 1 cc discard is also very important in the combo matchups. The revokers should help with Elves, Sneak and show and combo, which i find all quit hard matchups.
Most of you guys don't seem to really like the tutors, any reason behind this? I play 3 tutors side, reasoning behind this is that i now can board in 4-offs of a lot of important enchantments/artifacts. I also like the Bridges sideboard, although i have not tested this very much. My reasoning for them is that they are great in the sneak and show matchup, and should generally be awesome in combination with a liliana (maybe should run 4 liliana). Furthermore our creatures should not be hindered by it, except for confi and Revoker (with whom u most likely won't attack anyway). All our creatures are 1 toughness, which means they should be able to attack anyway. They can even carry a jitte.
I also don't see a lot of Sensei’s Divining Top? I really really love this card, it has won me many games, especially post board where i need a specific hate card to win the game. Furthermore they are great in grindy matchups.
I feel like i want more sideboard Combo hate, but i do not know what. Thalia might be the best option? I have found that one canonist can slow them by a lot (they need to find bounce) but is often not enough to win the game. Two canonists are game though. I've tested Spirit, but it is worthless, dropping him turn two does not stop them from going of nor does it really slow them down. Ur better of playing discard than spirit.
Any coments or tips on my list are welcome!
Creatures (14)
4#Dark Confidant
4#Stoneforge Mystic
4#Deathrite Shaman
2#Phyrexian Revoker
Spells (19)
3#Thoughtseize
3#Inquisition of Kozilek
4#Lingering Souls
4#Swords to Plowshares
2#Vindicate
3#Liliana of the Veil
Artifact (5)
1#Batterskull
1#Sword of Fire and Ice
1#Umezawa’s Jitte
2#Sensei’s Divining Top
Land (22)
4#Verdant Catacombs
4#Scrubland
4#Marsh Flats
4#Wasteland
2#Bayou
3#Swamp
1#Plains
sideboard (15)
2#Zealous Persecution
1#Circle of Protection: Red
1#Engineered Explosives
1#Engineered Plague
1#Choke
1#Grafdigger’s Cage
1#Rest in Peace
2#Ensnaring Bridge
2#Ethersworn Canonist
3#Enlightened Tutor
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tescrin
Yes they do. Canonist says "you have to kill me to win" which actually *does* keep them from winning T3/4 because unless they have natural kill-spell/bounce they can't wish + kill it in one go; and even if it were another hatebear, 5-6 mana is a lot for thalia and 4-5 mana is a reasonably high amount to waste on your "go off turn" if you have Teeg or some such.
My complaint is also that Spirit does roughly nothing IMO since it doesn't stop any means of attack (PiF chain, AN, natural Warrens/Tendrils.) You're banking on them needing to cantrip instead of them having the unlikely "I have 4-6 extra mana AND an extra wish." When a deck can reliably go off T2; you need something that says "you have to wait a turn or three"; which gives you time to beat in, set up DRS with open mana (or other grave hate), and get their life low enough for AN that they can't reliably use it. This leaves them with natural warrens/tendrils.
8 discard is a good start, but you need things that say "you can't win" and I really think it should be 1-2 more hatebears (or a 1/1 split with a second tutor.) The reason is because they can just topdeck their win out of nowhere. SS is good here. Canonist is good here. Tutors are OK here. I think I'd even prefer a bunch of Scullers to the Spirits and Oring.
Also, how is Pithing Needle storm hate? On lands? I feel like you've played against ANT too much and not TES; which FME is generally much stronger. Revoker is OK hate, but Needle doesn't do anything here unless you're getting a lucky fetch with it. Cage is fine to board in, but I don't count grave hate as storm hate generally since they don't have to rely on PiF to win.
If I'm honest, I don't like O Ring as S&T hate either. You have to show it to them first, they have to not have sneak attack and it's pretty bad against Griselbrand. I feel like if you're going that direction then you should go Ensnaring Bridge. It doesn't matter what they Show into play then and you are guaranteed safe while you're plinking them with DRS. O Ring isn't generally good for Omnishow either; given that they typically want to go off in a "safe" way (trickbind with wish) and with a Tutor you tell them that they want to go off "now" or with a wish; depending when you do it.
I realize why you have Seal, I'm just saying that it's pretty garbage. You could do the same thing with a light green splash (1 Bayou, 1 Savannah?) and use Decay or you could use QPM in the same manner you're suggesting.
I also feel like using pack rat without
Mutavault is weird. It's a free combat trick that happens to be decent against miracles as is (manland) and you're running 25 lands. If you're going to be 2-3 lands above normal those slots should pull their weight.
Cabal Pit would also be acceptable IMO.
I do run with Mutavault. I have considered with Decays as well.
Against storm we need to attack on many diffrent ways. Ye, there is alot ANT here. I dont know exactly how they board but I know the bears will get bounced, Slaughter Pacted, Dread of Nighted, Massacred, hurkyls Recall etc etc unless attack them on other fronts. Being able to attack their hand, mana, ways do draw new cards and limit their amount spells they can play per turn might give enough turns where they no longer can go of.
The way you make Spirit work is hiting them with discard effects and spirit them so they cant dig for the card they need. And hope you can land more discard, Stony Silence to shut of artifact mana or canonist without geting that bad plains so you lose you board against massacre.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
@Space
Tutorboards are alright. They're certainly fun to build. I'm wary about it since the card disadvantage can hurt. I've also (user error) had tutor targets I didn't realize I needed to board in where it cost me a match that was salvageable. Their issue, if I should express it, is that it takes the extra one mana (so if you need a cage T1 for instance, you can't get it) and that they tend to overextend the tutor-targets to cover MUs that the targets are either mediocre in or plain uncommon. When I ran a tutor board I had Serenity (and yes, there is an affinity player here, but still..), ORing (no longer convinced this works well), and a few other "meh" cards.
Another issue is that Topdecking a tutor *sucks.* It's not actually another copy of hate, it's another copy of hate *next turn.* If you have the time and it's a blowout card, by all means. For me, I just try to build boards with versatility in the cards and overlap in different areas. I.E. Nihil Spellbomb and Cage often come in similar MUs; but cage is live for elves, and spellbomb is live for lands or Junk decks.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Yeah as a top deck that you need to answer now, E. Tutor isn't that great. However, I recently switched into having 2 tutors in the board.
Played at a SCG Invitational Qualifier. WON. 3-1-1 in the swiss. And 3-0 in the top 8. Beat Elves, Burn, CDN Threshold in the swiss. Lost to CDN Threshold and ID'ed with Painter. In the top 8 beat Oops all Spells (he got to go first as well), Death and Taxes and Imperial Painter in the finals. Not sure if I'm gonna go to the Seattle open or wait for something hopefully closer to home....
Bob was the MVP as usual. He didn't kill me, even when I had 2 out vs Death and Taxes. Came awfully close though....was down to 3 life, with 1 bob left (other I sac'ed to Therapy)....flips a Swords to Plowshares.
First time I used the Enlightened Tutor board. Only used the tutors vs Burn and Oops. Got to use it against Oops, getting Rest in Peace.
Spacebeest. Deck seems fine. I would suggest in the board a Humility and/or Toxic Deluge. Perhaps take out an Ensnaring Bridge for a Humility. Also, since you play 4 Lingering Souls, I'd suggest at least switching out one Inquisition of Kozilek for a Cabal Therapy.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Never thought about therapy being sweet to sacrifice a Bob at low life to. That's awesome. Congrats on the win. I think I'm going to use my invitational next year in Richmond.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Grtz on your results wilkin, great to see a good performance.
Any chance on a more elaborate tournament report? i'm especialy curious to the matches vs Elves and Burn, both are prety bad matchups i think.
and with respect to the tutor board, where you disapointed by it?
any reason why you dind't use the tutors vs thresh? you have at least Rest in Peace sideboard as you said, possibly engineered explosives, choke, ensnaring bridge?
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Went 3-1 tonight beating what was like a budget Vial Maverick build. Dunno why he scooped when I was tapped out with a BSkull, Jitte and a few dudes on board even though he had a Revoker (on Lily) with a Sword of Light and Shadow and a pridemage in the yard. He scooped and it surprised me. Then I lost to Grixis Dak Fayden. It was just a weird game. Then beat Miracles and then beat Elves in the top 8.
As for the Elves MU, maybe I just have played some sub-par players or something, but I have generally found elves to be like a 50/50 MU. Kind of favoring whoever is on the play. Any game we begin with a Deathrite on the play is very tough to lose it feels like. Also I play Perish which may affect things a little bit differently from those who don't. As for the burn match up... I am honestly not sure what to do to shore the MU enough without devoting too many horrible slots to it. That's the one deck I have really struggled against lately.
Really just getting ready for SCG ATL next weekend. Looking to run it back!
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
As for the burn match up... I am honestly not sure what to do to shore the MU enough without devoting too many horrible slots to it. That's the one deck I have really struggled against lately.
Back in 2006, I was playing what would today be called the ancestor of esper.deck
Burn was already a thing and I spent a lot of time to hate it without diluting to much the deck.
1) If you beg for life
As far as Pikula/DGA is involved you could consider the following cards if your point is to not only play CoP in the board along with tutors:
- Descendant of Kiyomaro -> was my personal choice (instead of say Pulse of the Field) but requires double white.
- Genju of the Fields -> Hard to remove but requires 3 mana
- Sun Droplet -> affected by smash but pretty devastating
2) If you beg for racing your opp
This is unlikely to happen against burn. But hey, why not ?
- Phyrexian crusader -> The "black" mirran crusader. It is, IMHO, wrongly underplayed in legacy right now. Does not fear punishing, sword, bolt either. It could have a devoted slot up to 2 MD in black centred DGA. Alongside with CoP and tutor in the board, this would be my choice as you would be diluting less your deck.
- Vampire Nighthawk -> Not much to say, here. One of the best "middle" guy available in black. Useful in a lot of MU and requires your opp to react. Soft to every removal in DaWorld but hey it can't have it all.
Double white sucks but...:
- Auriok Champion -> Already mentioned in this thread, I guess. Very good against burn rather *meh* against the whole meta
- Fiendslayer Paladin-> New toy but poor toy. Partial protection from Black & Red but still ahead when it comes to MU where racing IS relevant. First strike/Lifelink is nothing to scorn at.
Side note:
I strongly advise not to overload on the "discard" plan against burn. Guerilla tactics is a big deal.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
As for the burn match up... I am honestly not sure what to do to shore the MU enough without devoting too many horrible slots to it. That's the one deck I have really struggled against lately.
You play enlightened tutor, right? Sphere of Law?
Also yesterday played 3-1 with the deck, loosing one game to my manabase. Almost forgot, what means the power of Vindicate =)
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Congratulations megadeus and door, well done!
Megadeus, still playing the revokers and where they perform again very well?
Door, can you share some more details of your tournament, like what you played against?
You are right about the elf matchup, I just remembered that I was unable to beat my friend with elves, but then I remembered that he only wanted to play pre-board because I have too much scary stuff in my board. I think the matchup pre-board is pretty hard. I felt like I needed at least 10 StP to have a chance. Jitte sounds good, until they have Wirewood Symbiot. They also win deathrite battles because they can untap them with Quirion Rangers. I’m only glad they usually don’t play Progenitus anymore since we can’t deal with it.
Post board things become much more easy though. So maybe it is a 50/50 matchup.
For the burn matchup there are a two viable sideboard options I think:
Enlightened Tutor + Circle of Protection: Red / Warmth. Warmth has the advantage of not requiring any mana after it hits the table, however they can still theoretically win with it in play.
Other option would be 4x Leyline of Sanctity. This requires more dedicated space in the sideboard, but they are helpfull in other matches as well.
Also Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist are helpful in the match. Discard is fine, especially hymn is good. I don't think guerrilla tactics is played nowadays.
I think any of the options posted above are less good then these. But I cannot say that I have tried any of them.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
A local guy went 3-1 with a deck that looks something like:
14-20 creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Tidehollow Sculler
16-18 non-creature spells
4 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3-4 Zealous Persecution
3-4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
22-23 lands
1 Bayou
21-22 other lands
he beat a pair of Junk decks (including me) and I'm unsure on the other MUs. This seems like it'd have strong interaction with elves. I suspect the list is missing Bob, Lily, and probably a pair of vindicates. But, if you notice the deck swarms pretty hard and can survive multiple -1/-1 effects while always having more flyers. It was pretty obnoxious to face.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
All that evasion and no SOFAI to get triggers off of?
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spacebeest
I don't think guerrilla tactics is played nowadays.
Yes, it is not played but...
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7972&f=LE
It might be coming soon.
Speculations aside (meta...) // 4 LoS in the board is rather a LOT of space dedicated to hate some combo.deck
I was more talking about 1 or 2 cards to help the burn matchup rather than something quadlazzered.
The given breakdown is rather limited and obviously Thalia/cannonist are already included in most DGA boards as other tools to dampen burn assaults.
If you treat "burn" as a T4 combo kill deck, then:
1) Slow him down = discard, creature that must die (thalia, canonist, SFM, DRS)
2) Stabilize (usually burn player is hellbent) and win = this step enforces you to win the race (topdeck bolt???Ouch) either:
- by outpowering your opponent
- or by gaining life
These two conditions can only be reached in DGA by creatures "hard to deal with" or equipped and by enchantment.
1) CoP is the best, no wonder, but it is a very very situational card and requires a tutor board
2) Or/and you could use/test some of the aforementioned creatures and especially phyrexian crusader as it could be very handy in other matchups.
Not to mention that playing PCrusader MD will improve your G1 while your opponent has not sided in "smash".
A Jitte-equipped PCrusader is usually game-over.
I would not underestimate the power of being able to start G3 vs a burn player as a T4 on your side -> jitte + equip + combat should put you ahead.
-
Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
Something i like the the hawk is how great it is against terminus :P
However I wouldnd play the deck without bob or liliana tbh.
Just got myself a foil version of Worship now for the burn matchup :P