No love for Wurmcoil in the BUG list? It's big, stupid, hard to deal with, persists through all non-exile effects, and doesn't care about BUG's colors/color screw.
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No love for Wurmcoil in the BUG list? It's big, stupid, hard to deal with, persists through all non-exile effects, and doesn't care about BUG's colors/color screw.
Consecrated Sphinx and prime time are simply better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
Especially Sphinx. It allows you to pull ahead so fast.
Just wait for your opponent to cast his first Brainstorm.
my issue with sphinx over prime time is: You can gsz for it and it can just die before you get triggers. that being said, once you hit the second trigger, its better than prime time albeit the clock isn't the same
A boa constrictor and a tiger both are deadly. One just needs some more time to kill you than the other does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
The Sphinx gives you so much CA you end up just overwhelming your opponent with cards. Titan just smashes face and creates the Two Towers loop in case just smashing face isn't good enough. To each their own :smile:.
GSZ can be solved by Traverse the Ulvenwald or Fierce Empath (even though it's a slow play and takes up a slot and yada-yada. But it's still there if you want a reliable way of finding Sphinx).
Sphinx is great but prime time wins faster. I wish I could fit both but that is doubtful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
How do you reliably get delirium so traverse isn't a shitty land cantrip?
Gprobe, vet/strix, brainstorm, decay, deed, liliana/jace, of course the fetches. The deck has quite a few types of cards that go to the graveyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
4 or more is where its HAS to reliably be for that spell to be worth its slot. otherwise its a waste of space and will be replaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
Ppl said the same thing about delve spells and then realized that just because you couldnt play them in the first 3 turns didnt mean they were not busted. Now I do not think traverse is as broken as those but turning on a 1 mana tutor that is better than Gsz could still be worth building on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
this is different than delve. this is specifically for nic fit AND it is about quality not quantity. 4 DIFFERENT types in the gy for the card to doing anything. we already use the gy quite a bit. I imagine specific infrastructural changes would need to be made to make traverse active and playable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
probe, therapy, pulse, ponder, traverse - sorcery
decay, bstorm - instant
lily, jace - pw
fetches - land
strix, vet - creature
strix - artifact
deed, library - enhcantment
It is not that hard to imagine getting traverse active. I doubt you turn it on before turn 3 but I honestly would not imagine that running a deck with some amount of the above cards you are not able to.
The problem with traverse is it competes with cards many ppl already cant find slots for. ie diabolic intent, sylvan library, top #4, painful truths, skelatal scrying, recurring nightmare, ponder and several other jankier options that fill the 11-12 "card selection/advantage" slots. It cannot compete with tops 1-3, GSZ, or brainstorm.
It's not a nic fit card. Bug control will play it, at least I will try it. Delirium isn't hard there and basically can tripping into a tnn seems strong or grabbing a waste
Everyone's next post: please post their current Rhinotime list so we all have them in one place.
I'll be piloting this list next saturday.
Mainboard:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Glissa, the Traitor
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Painful Truths
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
Sideboard:
1 Memoricide
3 Duress
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Golgari Charm
1 Rest in Peace
1 Memoricide in lieu of a Taiga + Slaughter Games.
@Echelon: your attending at Duth Open today?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
@Matt: Wheres yours?
Heres mine (currently gonna test Anguished Unmaking):
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path To Exile
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor // Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
sideboard
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist // Slaughter Games
1 Gaddock Teeg // Slaughter Games
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
I'm changing a few slots every week, currently on this (due to playing against a lot of miracles). Typing this on the phone so using short names.
Main deck (60):
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
1 Meren
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ooze
1 Stoneforge
1 Batterskull
1 Qasali
2 Deathrite
3 Veteran
3 Deed
3 Decay
3 Path
2 Vindicate
1 Painful Truths
1 Evolutionary Leap
4 GSZ
4 Therapy
3 SDT
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant C
3 Windswept H
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
Sb:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical
2 Slaughter Games
1 Canonist
1 Gaddock
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tsunami
1 Engineered Plague
1 Enlightened Tutor
A bit more experimental than above slots:
1 Choke (may go back to Tsunami no 2, Wear/Tear and Council's Judgement are cards)
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon
The Evolutionary leap has been experimental, but it hasn't been bad yet, it's gotten a few tough game wins (allowed me to attack through a Griselbrand vs reanimator and clear and replay my board to ignore an active Ugin) and it always lets you rebuild threats, gain card advantage and a way to tutor for key creatures (ooze, sigarda).(I also expect it to be great vs Miracles)
I recently replaced 2 Baneslayers with Mystic + Skull since Snappy + Swords vs Baneslayer is so miserable.
I keep thinking about my favorite project, the Nic Fit transformational land destruction sideboarding plan: 1-2 KotR, 2 Wastelands and a few Vindicates main. But Tutor + Blood Moon probably does it better..
Edit: regarding Matt's comment, I'm also close to playtesting a Safekeeper, just having Rhinos unremovable seems great. And ooze.. And untouchable Mystic into Skull.
Edit: An idea I picked up in another thread a while ago is the sb trio of E.tutor + Canonist + E.Plague vs Storm. You can tutor for Canonist and play it turn 2. If they land goblins you can tutor for Plague. If they tap out you could tutor for Choke. The value of a second Canonist is limited, I prefer the flexibility of the tutor doubling sb value in a lot of other matchups as well as the canonist/plague synergy mentioned. Plague is also great vs Elves. I just decided to play bridge over path no 4 since I have so much removal in the main anyway, having just added Vindicates. And it seems good vs Eldrazi, Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Dredge (?) and lands too.
Edit: My list stops at CMC 5 so the value of additional Explorers is very limited, that's why only 3. Haven't missed no 4 much. Also Veteran sucks vs Miracles, it's nice to have one less dead card and with GSZ as you know it's easy to find when you need. And the 4th Decay was changed to a Qasali, adding 4 GSZ's to stop a Counterbalance/Chalice and a way to destroy an early Batterskull, a Leyline, Moat, whatever. Annd for Meren synergy. Will probably go back and forth on this.
Toying with the idea of trying:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Titania
16
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painful Truths
1 Sylvan Library
10
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path To Exile
1 Vindicate
14
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Taiga
2 Phyrexian Tower
21
sideboard
1 From the Ashes
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Golgari Charm
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Can't remember (it's 1AM and I'm tired)
Point being - gun for Miracles. Safekeeper protects Rhinos, and also Titania. Teeg lock out of the board is game over against them. From the Ashes coming in against Eldrazi.
I'm currently playing around with Hymn to tourach a bit. I just like the card :)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to tourach
2 Painful Truths
1 Vindicate
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower
SB:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
@ Matt:
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Plains
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Siege Rhino
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
2 Painful Truths
2 Vindicate
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Abeyance
De Walker Fiterum:
4 Negate might be a little too much (meaning 3 might be enough). But the card is really good.
What I like the most is the ability to sac a veteran and hold the free 2 basics for Negate. This negates (pun intented) anything nasty coming from your opponent during the very next turn.
I wish sometimes Negate could caught a creature spell and I have tried many times to weight the pros and cons of playing Mana Leak instead.
Eventually, even if Mana Leak is 90% a better negate; there is those 10 % where you wish you had a true counterspell instead of a conditional one.
But to draw any meaningful conclusion here, it requires a lot of test against various Legacy deck.
Anyway, for those interested you can test Mana leak instead of Negate and try to lower the number to 3.
I would basically test the following:
-1 Negate
+1 SDT
SDT offers a very nice protection post side against various combo decks.
Floating any counterspell with top is where you wanna be...
This is what i am playing atm:
MD (61):
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
2 Phyrexian Tower
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Painful Truths
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
SB:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Extirpate
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
3 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Choke
4 vet
1 drs
1 scooze
1 qpm
1 nissa
1 ewitness
1 meren
4 rhino
1 sigarda
1 tusk
3 top
4 zenith
4 therapy*
2 games
4 decay
3 path
3 deed
1 pulse
21 lands*
2 bayou
1 scrub
1 savanna*
1 badlands
3 forest*
2 swamp
2 plains
1 tower
4 catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 wooded foothills
14g 14b 12w 9r
2 ts
2 needle
1 e. plague
1 grip
1 glissa
1 teeg
1 g charm
2 carpet
2 surgical
2 ensnaring bridge
Just finished 7 round tournament with 71 players. Nice tournament and pretty big attendence for Dutch standards.
Had a good start going 3-0-2 but lost the last 2 so 3-2-2 finish.
Played Punishing Fires.
1-1-1 Shardless
2-0 UR Thing in the Ice / Delver
1-1-1 Eldrazi Stompy
2-1 Affinity
2-0 Elves
0-2 Grixis Delver
1-2 Maverick
Mega grindy. 5 rounds over time and the other 2 with < 10 minutes left. Time to collapse...
Edit: anyone have any play with Anguised Unmaking and new Sorin?
Would have liked to, but didn't know it was (now) yesterday. I'm afraid I missed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Concerning Sorin: I hope to do so next week. Looking forward to it. It's a bit of a break from my usual silliness that might actually solve one of my problems. The next tournament after that I'll likely try to run Manaless Dredge. It got a new toy and I had some crazy ideas so, you know :laugh:.
64 person tournament at 401 Games Toronto yesterday, April 9th. Went 4-2 for a top 16 (I think. I left before Top 8 had been decided.)
Props to Daniel Fournier at 401 Games for a well organized comp. Also to all 6 of my opponents who were cool in both victory and defeat.
Fairly standard Junk Rhinos with a sideboard for my local field (almost...)
//Lands
1 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
//Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Path to Exile
1 Painful Truths
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate
//Creatures
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Veteran Explorer
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Null Rod (didn't draw vs DnT and Affinity)
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles (not used)
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg (not used)
SB: 2 Blood Moon (won a game vs Lands)
SB: 1 From the Ashes (came too late vs Lands)
SB: 3 Thoughtseize (used once vs Reanimator)
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction (Lands and Reanimator)
SB: 1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis (not used)
SB: 2 Slaughter Games (not used)
R1) Death & Taxes, Kevin: Loss 0-2
Ended up with 7 lands in play for both games and a Deed or Deluge would've been cheered like a stripper arriving at a frat party..... but they decided to stay home instead. Pre-game, I decided to remove Massacre from the sideboard. Well, I guess I guessed wrong.
R2) White Humans, Russ: Win 2-1
All the removal finally decided to come to the party in Games 1 and 3. Rhinos and Sigarda arrived later to switch off the lights :-)
R3) Lands, Adam: Loss 1-2
Quickly lose G1 to a turn 4 Marit. Quickly win G2 with 2x Surgical (taking Loam and Pfires), a turn 3 Blood Moon and an immediate scoop. G3 misplay when I miscounted mana and realized, too late, I could've tutored for a Path with Vet/Intent for the impending Marit. Maybe leaving out the 4th Path was a mistake.
R4) Burn, Mike: Cheap and lucky 2-0 win (phew!) as he had to drop and leave. But I'll take it. I'm not proud.
R5) Affinity, Sabrina: Win 2-0
Got to low life both games but Pernicious Deed for 2 was just brutal. I even apologized. G1 it cleared all 9 of her permanents. Same in G2 except for a lone Ancient Tomb. Then Rhinos.
R6) Reanimator, Matt: Win 2-1
Lose G1 but Surgical and Path and Rhinos in G2 & 3 did their job. Therapy/TS stole Reanimate and Exhume
So, it was a typical rock, paper, scissors day and, except for the lack of Massacre, I'm fairly happy with the sideboard for my local field. If I had faced Elves, Storm, Miracles or anyDelver (as I normally do) I would've had some answers. Some observations:
- 4th Path is definitely going back into the main. But for what?
- Rhinos.
- Massacre is definitely going back into the sb. But for what?
- Rhinos.
- Vindicate was all-star. Love that card. I drew it 3 times and each time it had an immediate impact on the board state.
- Rhinos.
- I dodged all the blue decks in the room and so Abrupt Decay was meh. But that's ok.
- Rhinos
- No Eldrazi (that I saw) so I didn't need From the Ashes.
- Rhinos.
- I dodged Miracles (they were there) so Teeg, Slaughter Games and Sorin stayed in the board.
- And, finally, Rhinos :-)
Over and out.
I'm assuming by the smiley face, Rhinos = good? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm_Really?
Hi guys here is my current rhino list:
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
1 Dryad Arbor
2 deathrite shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painful Truths
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Dryad Militant
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
My meta is Lands (so 4 path), miracle (maindeck Teeg) and elves (deluge instead of the slower but stronger deed).
I feel that the deck is strong but too slow when I don't open with dora (it feels that I'm always a turn behind) .Otherwise the feeling of slamming rhino after rhino, turn after turn , is priceless . :cool:
My current list tries to be able to function on a normal mana curve while also being able to bank on dora openings.
So I am retrying the good old stoneforge plan :
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Siege Rhino
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Silhana Ledgewalker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Gadock teeg
The idea is that any equipment turns your fetches into a 4 turn clock as well as turning late game explorers into threats so the deck may overwhelm the removal thrown at it (not looking at you miracle) further testing is required.
Yes, very good. Ricardio would have approved.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Continuing the Rhino love, Nic Fit w/ 4 Rhinos got 6th today at SCG Baltimore.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=100730
Glissa :laugh:. That guy just made my day.
His manabase scares the shit out of me though. The number of initial mana sources for each colour is way in the red zone. I count 13/11/11 for G/B/W respectively. I wonder if he ran into colour screw in any of his games.
Isn't there an artifact we can run with glissa? Like even a singleton pod seems interesting there, or even a sphere for mana fixing /cantrippingQuote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
You can switch a Pernicious Deed for an Engineered Explosives, but that's about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
I wouldn't bank on it though. She dies to every spotremoval known to man and is pretty much just run b/c of her keyword abilities. She plays out more like a deterrent than an actual creature slayer. No opponent would be stupid enough to send his creature right into her, especially if that'd also cause her to recur something as powerful as a Birthing Pod.
Yeah i guess that's probably not realistic. If not, a singleton nihil spellbomb seems nice. It exile only opponent grave and cantrip at worst. But exiling graves is such a strong effect in most of this format with DRS everywhere and the resurgence of goyfs.
Don't we have our own DRS & Scavenging Ooze for that..?
@Plm, you can PM me if you wanna discuss SFM builds :) Curious as to how you find Ledgewalker, I currently use Thrun, Sigarda and Tusk as my resilient equipment carriers.
@SCG list, do we know if the player frequents this forum? Cause the list looks very familiar and a report would be sweeeeeet
I approve wholeheartedly! Wonderful job!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm_Really?
The list finishing well is splendid. I hope we can find the individual and get a report, that would be great!
I'm the player that came in sixth yesterday. I'm working on a report, and will be posting it tonight. I will include comments on the manabase.
Hi all:
I've been trying to find a 'base' list that I can proxy for myself and just goldfish/play against a buddy also using proxy decks (60 more important than a 75, at least for now I'll just throw together a generic SB), just to see if I'd enjoy the gameplay. Nic Fit seems to allow for so much customization, it's hard to figure out a basic list. Any suggestions?
Since no real "base" lists exist, i'd just slam together the most recent list with results. Hence, copy the SCG list from the gentlemen Madlameguy. :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by zbrt
And if that is not what your looking for, then feel free to check my signature lists.
GREAT! Congratulations on the finish and I know I speak for everyone when I say we are eagerly anticipating your experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by madlameguy
I would look back a few pages and read up on the latest versions. Nic fit is an ever evolving deck that you want to learn and understand. Each card has a purpose and when you understand what it is, you can better use the resources of the deck. Some signatures have lists but when it comes down to actual 60, its pilots preference. Some people like courser, others don't. Some want to slam punishing fire with huntmasters, others prefer rhinos and paths. Read up and find what you think you want and go from there. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. there are only a few stupid questions. Tom seems to find them. haha /jkQuote:
Originally Posted by zbrt