[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

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Originally Posted by arbiter

Hello, first time poster, long time reader. I wanted to share some new point of views with playing with countertop in this deck.

Here's some small report from a 52-person tournament where I piloted this deck a week back. Enjoy.

A Night before the tournament I was sure to be playing this deck but wasn't sure on the countertop package. During the nightly drin... ahem... testing, I decided to try it out and it played pretty well against my friend's Nic Fit, and also against Aggro Loam. (Not that much of accomplishment but still) I've always liked playing with countertop so I went with this list:

Lands (19)
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island

Creatures (12)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Nimble Mongoose
1 Vendilion Clique

Spells (29)
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance

Sideboard (15)
3 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
2 Spell Pierce
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered explosives

So you can see, I moved the package to main, because I thought it would be easier to cut cards from main than from sideboard. I removed 3 Snare, 1 Mongoose, 2 Ponder, 1 Forked bolt, 1 Daze to fit the cbtop, Clique (more 3cc, not very useful that day, putting fourth daze next time maybe) and the miser Island (proved helpful at least in mirror and in case of wastelands/blood moon).

In the sideboard i would probably cut the EE for second cage, didnt need either much, but there's usually some graveyard based decks running around. Other than that I liked the list. I was expecting all kinds of deck but maybe more comboish and mirrorish, also maverick.

Here's a small match report of what I remember:

R1 Sneak And Show:
G1: He mulliganed to 4 or 5 and didnt put a single permanent onto battlefield. 1-0
G2: He had Emrakul. 1-1
G3: I got early Delver, I think and more counter than he. 2-1
1-0

R2 Bant:
G1: I got early Delver which didn't want to flip for couple of turns, until I got it transformed and protected by cbtop. 1-0
G2: I think i got early Delver again, which also didn't want to flip and then got slowed by maze of ith. After killing some dudes and destroying jitte and batterskull and wasteing the mazes, I was able to win. 2-0
2-0

R3 UR Delver:
G1: Both mulliganed, bolted dudes but I had delver and mongoose for the win. 1-0
G2: Resolved countertop, gg. 2-0
3-0

R4 GW Maverick:
G1: Lost to knight and co. 0-1
G2: Had a chance but made some ugly misplay, don't even want to remember. 0-2
3-1

R5 High tide:
G1: I have hand with no counter or draw, and know what he's playing but decide to go. I got mongoose and delver on the beatdown, he searches and draws but cant find the combo in time. 1-0
G2: He mulligans to 5 or 6, I resolve fast cbtop and a dude, he doesnt resolve a spell. 2-0
4-1

After looking standings I realize that I might have to play, but got paired up so we ID'd and top8 place was certain.
4-1-1

Top8:
R6 RUG ***** (the person i ID'd with, we played 1 game for fun before and I won):
G1: Fetched the Island and wasted/stifled him out, countering his counters. Finished with some beatstick. 1-0
G2: Opening hand 3 Wastelands and some other lands too. I fetched non-basics first to bait him and then wasted him out. Basic Island was crucial also here. 2-0
5-1-1

Semifinal R7 EsperBlade:
G1: Dont remember much, but i should've mulligan my hand. Lost to tokens with jitte.
0-1
G2: Didnt sideboard or played that well here, lost to batterskull. 0-2
5-2-1

At this point I was pretty tired and still had to wait for my opponent who was still playing first match of top8. After hour or two I got to my final game for 3rd place and Volcanic Island.

R8 Hivemind:
G1: I was pretty comfortable on this matchup, because usually he must go the Emrakul plan. Which I was crushed by in this first game. 0-1
G2: I Resolve early Delver or Geese and start beating. Exiled his show and tell's with surgical after intuition and countered the key spells. 1-1
G3: This was pretty long match overrall, don't remember much of this game but I got beating and countered his key spells. At his last turn alive he went for show and tell but luckily i had Force with blue card to remove, fortunately he didn't have the blue card for his own Force so, victory :) 2-1
6-1-1 Overrall record and Volcanic Island.

Feels like I threw the Esper match away, but I'm still happy for the deck and my finish, atleast after waiting five or-so hours for pizza delivery and ~3 hours of sleep :)

So in conclusion, I think in this meta the countertop was a good choice, and I think its easier to side out than in. I think I sided it out only against Bant and Maverick. Sry I don't remember the sideboarding in each matchups, but it was pretty basic I think. Hope this was worth reading. Good Night!

-arbiter

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Do you board out CB-Top package vs Maverick?

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Originally Posted by JJ-JKidd

Do you board out CB-Top package vs Maverick?

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Originally Posted by arbiter

...I sided it out only against Bant and Maverick...

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Just finished building this deck, and after some reading through this forum, I've brewed the following list.

Canadian Poop in Your Face.dec (I hate the way people call this RUG Delver or RUG Tempo):
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Delver of Secrets

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Thought Scour

SB: 4 Submerge
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge

Sulfur Elemental is a nice tech, with all those Lingering Souls, Moms and Thalias running arround. I usually board like this against Maverick and Bant:
On the play: -4 Force of Will, -2 Thought Scour, -1 Stifle, +4 Submerge, +3 Sulfur Elemental
On the draw: -3 Daze, -2 Thought Scour, -1 Stifle, -1 Tarmogoyf +4 Submerge, +3 Sulfur Elemental
Is it worth to side Grafdigger's Cage in this matchup? It stops GSZ and Natural Order, but seems janky. Moreover, is 7 dedicated anti-Maverick slots worthy? I've decided to run more Burn main deck in the place of Spell Snare (didn't like Spell Snare against anything but Stoneforge Mystics, which can be burned).

Another point: the 8 fetches, should I play 2-2-2-2 split (blue fetches, ofc) to avoid Surgical Extraction, or that's 4-4 is fine? What about Thought Scour? They're janky, but they help Mongoose build some muscle.

Thanks in advance.

At home I play 4-4 Fetchies - simply because I like the flavor. But when I play on sancioned tournaments i play 2-2-2-2 as you dont lose anything but flavor :)

Why is everyone moving away from Spell Snares? Theyre good such alot of things. And yes Burn might solve problems like Stoneforge but does it counter a Burning Wish? And how are you going to burn a flashed in Scryb Ranger if the oponent has an active Mother of Runes? You are going to lose Tempo if you chainlightning the Noble Hierarch that got tutored with the GSZ you could have countered...

Greetings

At this point i would never cut spell snares. There are some matchups where it is a dead card (like Dredge), there are some that it is weak (like mirror, high tide and burn i think) but there are many where it shines. Countering stoneforge mystic is so much better then killing it. Snare also takes snapcasters , bitterblossom, hymns, goyfs, thalias, teegs and many other. In those matchups where it's weak it's an easy choice what to side out.

And about chain lightning and forked lightning: i don't like that's sorcery speed. So i'll stick to fire // ice.

Against Burn, I love holding a Spell Snare. It's insurance against Price of Progress and also against Keldon Marauders. It's certainly not the -best- card in that matchup but its not too shabby either.

High Tide -- you can counter Merchant Scroll with it, and they sometimes have some other targets.

It's surprisingly relevant against Nic Fit. They are often going to GSZ for 1 to get a Veteran Explorer, and a lot of builds play Diabolic Edict and other 2cmc black removal. They also tend to run Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze.

Anyways...

Predict has been great for me lately. I'm running one in my build, but am considering going up to 2. I think this card is much, much better than Thought Scour.

Vandalize- I haven't had the guts to side cage against maverick yet but my rule of thumb against non grave decks is to use it if they run more than 1 engine so if you're facing gsz+ NO I say yes. Also snare is very good against maverick and stone blade too. Snare always results in tempo loss and hard counters must stop spells for us like jitte, thalia, goyf, ooze, gsz, sfm and so on.

Lastly I agree on thought scour, instead of running more cards to activate goose just run 1 less goose and put 3 snares in. You won't regret these changes and upping your counters to 15 is a must IMO...I'm rolling with 17 right now and the difference is amazing. 12 creatures clogs sometimes and only 12 disruption makes for weak opening 7.

Hello everyone,

I've been playing RUG Tempo for about two months now, and I've been loving it. It's my second serious legacy deck, and I think I'm about at the point where I fully understand each slot in the deck, and how changes will effect what the deck does. So here's my list, and I'll go over a few things at the end.

Lands:
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Island

Creatures:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Nimble Mongoose

Spells:
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt

Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
2 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 ----------------------------

Ok so a few things:

First off I just recently put the two Spell Pierce from the SB into the MD. I took out a mongoose and a one of Snapcaster Mage for them, but I haven't tested it yet. Does anyone have any experiance with Pierce in the main deck, and if it is worth it? Also, should I have cut something instead of the mongoose? I was tempted to cut one of the Ponders instead.

Next up is the Forked Bolt. These were Chain Lightning for a while, but the meta seems to be favoring Forked Bolt these days. I was considering Fire // Ice, but the 2 CMC seems a bit clunky for a T2 2for1 leaving us tapped out when it's the most important to be able to disrupt or land a threat.

Finally, over to the sideboard. I've been running different board wipe cards through my head, and ran Sulfur Elemental last Sunday in Baltimore, but I ended up facing no Maverick, and three burn players. I tested Pyroclasm a bit, but the lack of flexibility was frustrating. I'm looking to test Firespout a bit to see if the ability to conditional whip the board will be effective, but I'm not sure. I'm worried about wiping the ground, and not being able to get through with a delver, or wiping the air and hitting a wall with my Geese. I'd like to find something that Kill air and ground, but potentially leaves delvers and geese alive.... lol Finally, I'm not sure what to put in the last SB slot. Switching the Spell Pierces to the MD allowed me to fit in a fourth submerge, but I can't decide what the last card should be.

Thanks in advance for any comments, and I'll be sure to give my input to future posters!

Pierce in the main is very very good because it frees up SB slots for specific hate against our hard matchups and increases the counter density to where it needs to be. Also 1 FoW to the board has been great for me. Here is what ive recently changed to and the results have been great so ill likely be sticking with this for quite awhile.


Creatures 11
3 nimble mongoose
4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf

Permission 17
3 force of will
4 daze
4 stifle
3 spell snare
3 spell pierce

Burn/Removal 7
4 lightning bolt
3 forked bolt

Cantrip Engine 7
4 brainstorm
3 ponder

Lands 18
4 wasteland
3 volcanic island
1 taiga
3 tropical island
3 scalding tarn
4 misty rainforest

Side Board 15
1 force of will
2 pyroblast
3 surgical extraction
2 submerge
2 mind harness
1 ancient grudge
2 pyroclasm
2 sulfur elemental


having at LEAST 15 counters main is a must IMO and I run 17 currently, with only 11 threats which I think is the perfect amount. This has significantly improved my opening 7. Also 7 burn feels optimal although I go back and forth on the 3rd FB vs a single dismember. Im not usually a fan of 1-ofs but the usefulness of dismember vs. reanimator and maverick is welcome, but the main reason I often run it is as a 3rd submerge replacement since I cant quite squeeze the 3rd one in the board, if that makes any sense.

The beauty of putting pierce main is what it does for our sideboard. This change along with FB main has completely turned my matchups around vs. maverick, bant, esper stoneblade, made the dredge matchup better (clasm) while maintaining a very solid game against reanimator and combo. Boarding into 8 hate cards is just sick.

I keep the cornerstones of the tempo package all at full set, i.e. daze, stifle, wasteland. My reasoning is I wanted to maximize our most powerful plays in the early game where we thrive. The only regret is the loss of 1 ponder from our cantrip engine since I play so many conditionally good cards but so far the effect has been negligible.

I do think pyroclasm and elemental are the 2 best sweep effects right now. Clasm doesnt kill goose but wipes pretty much everything else that firespout does for 1 less giving us the chance to leave counter magic up. Killing zombie tokens in dredge is also good. Firespout costs too much for sorcery speed when the extra damage and selection options arent usually even relevant.
Elemental otoh owns mom, thalia, soul tokens and so on and the flash + split second are what really make the card worthwhile, its like a red clique/mini elesh norn. Just my experiences so far.

Edit- I should add that the 3-ofs are where its at...they are like virtual 4 ofs anyway with our cantrip engine without clogging as much and make boarding far easier. Also pierce doesnt come out that often and its so good that its place really is in the main so I feel this is the natural progression of canadian. Thoughts welcome.

Interesting.
After that slap at the DLM I sat down a bit and tinkered, coming to a pretty similar solution:

7 Fetch
3 Trop
4 Volc
4 Waste


4 Goyf
4 Delver
3 Mongoose


4 Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

3 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
2 Force of Will
4 Stifle

Sb (currently):

3 Submerge
1 EE
1 Firespout
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ancient Grudge
2 REB/PB
1 Force of Will



Getting the feeling of playing postboard in G1 goes a long way.

What does everyone think on Mana Base? I personally run 7 fetches, 6 duals and 1 basic island. I'm not certain the basic island is necessary, but until get my 4th Misty Rainforest I'm going to stick with it. I'm wondering why some people run an extra dual, and what the reasoning behind that is. I understand the few lists running 4 Tropical Island's and a few Scavenging Ooze, but I don't get the extra Volcanic Island. Ideas?

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Getting the feeling of playing postboard in G1 goes a long way.

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I agree, and the extra counter density makes brainstorm even better in response to must stop spells further solidifying our counter wall. I like your board btw, seems better than mine in the mirror.

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What does everyone think on Mana Base? I personally run 7 fetches, 6 duals and 1 basic island. I'm not certain the basic island is necessary, but until get my 4th Misty Rainforest I'm going to stick with it. I'm wondering why some people run an extra dual, and what the reasoning behind that is. I understand the few lists running 4 Tropical Island's and a few Scavenging Ooze, but I don't get the extra Volcanic Island. Ideas?

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Basic island probably isnt necessary but its nice against the mirror and can make 1 land hands alot more desirable sometimes, say with 2 delvers + daze/fow/pierce backup (otp with a fetch or if the islands in the opening 7). Not sure on the 19th land, probably in response to large turnout of canadian in their area? idk, but 18 has been fine for me.

I got first place in a 54-man tournament yesterday with the following list:

2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
2 Forked Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare
3 Daze
1 Predict
3 Force of Will

Sideboard
1 Pyroblast
4 Submerge
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Life from the Loam
1 Red Elemental Blast

My matches were:
2-1 Burn
2-0 Merfolk
2-0 Goblins
2-0 Bant
ID
ID

Top 8:
2-1 Dredge
2-0 Lands
2-0 B/W 'Deadguy Ale'-ish

I got extremely lucky in my pairings since I didn't have to face Maverick at all, which is one of the few decks RUG has a ton of trouble with.

I think the main board is perfect, even the single Predict which was awesome every time I saw it. I would definitely play 19 lands, and I think a Basic Island isn't really necessary. Stifle is pretty miserable right now, especially on the draw -- I lost the coin flip every single time except against dredge in the top 8. I don't think the deck really needs it at the moment.

The SB was fine, although I'd like to somehow find room for another Tormod's Crypt and possibly Sulfuric Vortex. Not sure what I'd cut.

Caleb Durward's GP Indy report:

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ing-it-thresh/


By the way, can we get the name of this thread changed to Canadian Threshold instead of "RUG Tempo"? The reason some people call this deck "RUG Tempo" is because Starcitygames keeps calling it "RUG Tempo". They refuse to acknowledge this deck as Canadian Threshold because they said it was a player at one of their SCG Legacy Opens who innovated this deck with Delvers and Snapcasters. A deck archetype's name should not be changed just because two cards were added to it. Existing deck archetypes are constantly evolving, but they don't change names every time they do. Wizards of the Coast called this deck Canadian Threshold at GP Indy, and so many people around the world still know this deck as Canadian Threshold. Why should we conform to what SCG does?

Why do we care what the deck is called, as long as we understand the principles and components of it?

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Originally Posted by Mark Sun

Why do we care what the deck is called, as long as we understand the principles and components of it?

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Where is the "Like" button?

Having the descriptor 'Tempo' tells us a lot more about the deck's components than having some unrelated name. It's unfortunate to lose that piece of history, but the modern incarnation of the deck *is* different than the original Canadian Threshold build. Having 11-12 aggressive creatures makes the deck play out very differently than the classic 8-creature build.

People feel the need to put labels on everything, especially women, or Magic players. There's this obsession to quantify.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by Kl'rt

Caleb Durward's GP Indy report:

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ing-it-thresh/

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I read the report, and it says he sided out Wastelands in game 2 for the Counterbalance package. I'm curious how effective it is siding out Wastelands. It drops our total mana base down to 14 lands. While those wastelands don't cast most of the deck, they do help push out Tarmogoyfs, Snapcaster Mages and Scavenging Ooze. Is it really that good to go down to 14 land to side in a card that costs 2U to cast? I mean is the cantrip effect that good to get us up to 2 lands quickly enough?

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...178#post630178