[Deck] Aggro Loam

I can only give you a short summary of my matchups, since I am preparing for GP Copenhagen right now.

Friday, Legacy Trial:

R 1-5: UR Delver, Jund, MUD, Miracles, Elves -> Record: 5-0
R 6-7: I.D. -> Record: 5-0-2
Top8: OmniTell -> Win
Top4: UR Delver -> Win
Finals: MentorMiracles -> Loss


Saturday, Legacy Main Event:

R1: BYE
R 2-6: Esper, RUG Delver, Reanimate, Deathblade, Storm -> Record: 6-0
R 7-8: I.D. -> Record: 6-0-2
Top8: Storm -> Win
Top4: Storm -> Win
Finals: Split


@Warden: Sometimes you want to play the cycle lands and you already have a lot of green lands. But to be honest, it will probably not make a difference which configuration you play ;)

Liliana is just way too good.

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Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper

i mean that lands with no Dark Depth is a pile like Loam with no chalice and Bob as you said.

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Ok, I clarify. First of all Lands can be with no DD nowadays as I replayed above. It's a core of a deck. Why did you bring this comparison? :really: Basic plan for todays Aggro Loam is a early Chalice of the Void at one and Bob, that give us the significant advantage. It is so important to have them at the first two turns in the play-zone. If we don't have them we will be behind in 80-90% of cases versus any deck in the format, especially with Miracles, Delvers, Grixis Pyromancer and Combo. Also a problem is that We have only 4 copies of these cards and no effects to find them fast. Lands doesn't have these issues. It manages 7-8 demonic tutors (Crop Rotation, Gamble) and we can confidently dredge LftL every turn for options, because it's not hurt a deck at all.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Lands and 4c Loam are about comparable as Miracles and BUG Delver are. Saying that Chalice and Dark Confidant are the only cards worth caring about completely ignores that there are about a total of twenty-four nonland cards that separate the two archetypes. The deck can, and does more often than not, win games without the two aforementioned cards. There's a reason why I frequently refer to Knight of the Reliquary as the Reliquary God, and Liliana is still the Empress of planeswalkers.

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Oscar, I think that Lands and 4c Loam are more about comparable as UWx Miracles and UWx Stoneblade variants are :smile: Yes, 20-24 cards separate the two archetypes, but some of those cards have close effects, but obviously they are two different archetypes. Yeah, one day I played versus BUG (with no Maelstrom Pulse and Pernicious Deed). It was so funny to win a game with 4 KotR :tongue: But such cases are unique in my experience :frown:

The T1 chalice is like Exploration out of Lands. Definitely something to be desired asap in all your games, but hardly something you are super behind for not having.

Bob can be just about any 2-3 drop and you aren't feeling bad about that play not being a bob (oh noo just a t2 KotR etc)

If you think there isn't a difference between 4CLoam and Lands in the way we use loams (and other cards) then you should watch someone else play the deck. A bunch of us are even down to 2 loams. If anything this deck is more similar to Maverick or Sylvan Plug or even Jund.

The loam/lands similarity is almost entirely superficial

hi,

start doing my best compliments to Schniggaz

then I wanted to ask you a question, with your list what are your side in and side out against strongest decks of the moment: Miracle, Grixys (control or Delver), Omnitell, BUG (shardless or Delver) and Storm?

sorry if you get bored with this question but I think that the IN-OUT side are one of the most important things in the game, and from which we can also understand your choices in the deck list.

many thanks advance for your advice,

Mario

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Originally Posted by Warden

Dumb questions about that recent list:
1. Why not 2 thicket, as there's more green in the manabase?
2. Could Liliana #3 be a Vindicate? Or would that ruin the sum of the deck's parts?

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Just want to point out, Liliana is obviously insane, but I've lost games due to being unable to cast her (BB) a non-trivial amount of times. I'm trying out a Pulse in place of the 3rd right now. Being able to Stone Rain is nice, but the echoing effect on Pulse sells it over Vindicate to me.

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Originally Posted by schniggaz

I can only give you a short summary of my matchups, since I am preparing for GP Copenhagen right now.

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Thank you for this!

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Originally Posted by Seraphix

Just want to point out, Liliana is obviously insane, but I've lost games due to being unable to cast her (BB) a non-trivial amount of times. I'm trying out a Pulse in place of the 3rd right now. Being able to Stone Rain is nice, but the echoing effect on Pulse sells it over Vindicate to me.

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While I understand the pain of having to juggle four colors, I don't think I've ever felt unable to cast Lili. If there are scenarios where I don't have the mana to cast Liliana, it's usually because I've made the choice to not have it. And, again, this is sometimes a pain, but Liliana is honestly just too good.

Anyway, that's pretty beside the point. If you do wanna put a generic kill spell in, my vote would be Vindicate. Maelstrom Pulse is usually the fancy kill of choice because of its color requirements and because the decks don't actually care about land destruction. But having a "Stone Rain" could actually be pretty viable in Loam. Mox Diamond into Stone Rain into Wasteland seems like it could be really good while "two Delvers VALUE!" seems pretty narrow.

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Originally Posted by apocolyps6

The T1 chalice is like Exploration out of Lands. Definitely something to be desired asap in all your games, but hardly something you are super behind for not having.

Bob can be just about any 2-3 drop and you aren't feeling bad about that play not being a bob (oh noo just a t2 KotR etc)

If you think there isn't a difference between 4CLoam and Lands in the way we use loams (and other cards) then you should watch someone else play the deck. A bunch of us are even down to 2 loams. If anything this deck is more similar to Maverick or Sylvan Plug or even Jund.

The loam/lands similarity is almost entirely superficial

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This is a great post.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

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Anyway, that's pretty beside the point. If you do wanna put a generic kill spell in, my vote would be Vindicate. Maelstrom Pulse is usually the fancy kill of choice because of its color requirements and because the decks don't actually care about land destruction. But having a "Stone Rain" could actually be pretty viable in Loam. Mox Diamond into Stone Rain into Wasteland seems like it could be really good while "two Delvers VALUE!" seems pretty narrow.

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Haha yes, the "two Delvers VALUE!" play is definitely not a thing. I will Pulse a Delver knowing my opponent has another in his hand every time-between maximizing your mana efficiency, preserving your life total, and playing around soft permission, you simply cannot sandbag Pulse hoping for a two-for-one against an aggressive, disruptive Delver deck. I would actually call it a poor card against Delver, but removal is removal.

To elaborate, the main appeal to me outside of being able to blow up a "thing" is against Miracles, where it can answer Jace and Angels (you don't want Deluge in your deck against Miracles). I also like that it has a textbox against some random stuff like Empty and Bridge From Below. Maybe I'm overvaluing the value of a CMC 3 Sorcery against those decks though?

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Originally Posted by Seraphix

Maybe I'm overvaluing the value of a CMC 3 Sorcery against those decks though?

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I mean, it's a catch-all. Both are. Thinking that they're going to be the bee's knees against anything is probably an unsafe wager, but they're likely to carry their general weight.

Hey guys, Top8 a 31 person event today.

List was niklas prague eternal list with the following changes:
-1 Urborg -1 Fetch -1 Liliana
+1 Cycling +1 Shaman +1 GSZ
-1 Rec Sage
+1 Canonist

Quick overview

G1 Shardless BUG (2-0)
Don't waste your Decays, I believe the matchup revolves a bit around them since everything besides Goyf dies to punishing fire.

G2 4C Delver (2-1)
Able to stablize with an ooze and PFire G1 at 4 life. G2 a TNN closed the game for him since I was unable to find Charm.

G3 Lands(0-2)
1st game he goes 2x Mox(pitch 2wasteland) Exploration Gamble(discard Loam), 2nd turn manabond. SCOOP IT.
2nd Game I wen shaman he went tabernacle, I missplayed by notletting a confidant die to cast a knight which would seal the game.

G4 Jund(2-1)
G1,G3 Again I was conservative enough with the decays so that I had an answer for everything using life as a resource.
G2 I believe I mulligan a keepable hand(fetch Decay Sylvan Bob Mox Knight Punishing) I end up keeping my 6 with 5 land a bob and a lili. Would you guys keep the 7card hand? and the 6th?

G5 ID

Top 8 - Nic wish
Awful pairing, basically deed is a house against us. 1G I missplayed by not casting an early zenith for the knight while facing Ruric(was afraid of the 6 life, god knows why)

This tournament was the pure grindfest with several jund, maverick, miracles and shardless. only 2 combo in the room and 1 burn.

In regards to the list, I think I am gonna cut the 4th cycling for a land(either a fetch, a dual, or a utility(no utility land is need at the moment).
Missed the 3rd Liliana but loved the 2nd shaman/3rd zenith, so I am a bit unsure which route to take.
Loved the Pulse over Delge in the sideboard.
Thoughtseize are bombs post side.

See you guys in Lille

Any hope for this card:

http://i.imgur.com/I0R0sgi.png

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Originally Posted by Cire

Any hope for this card:

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I was coming in here to say the same thing-ish.

Upon the release of Origins, I was considering doing a more classic R/xxx build involving the new Avaricious Dragon. I'd imagine that Molten Vortex would have a home if I did end up trying that out. Otherwise, I think that it definitely has potential as a one-of, but I don't think it would necessarily go towards "staple" territory.

Like. . . almost everyone else - my mind went directly to a Land Tax Deck . . .

A SUPER rough list

Spells- 28
4 Molten Vortex
4 Land Tax
4 Mox Diamond
4 Sword's to plowshares
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Life from the Loam
3 Sylvan Library
3 Punishing Fire

Creatures - 7
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze

Lands - 25
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
9 Basic Lands
9 Fetch/Duals

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Originally Posted by Cire

Like. . . almost everyone else - my mind went directly to a Land Tax Deck . . .

A SUPER rough list

Spells- 28
4 Molten Vortex
4 Land Tax
4 Mox Diamond
4 Sword's to plowshares
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Life from the Loam
3 Sylvan Library
3 Punishing Fire

Creatures - 7
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze

Lands - 25
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
9 Basic Lands
9 Fetch/Duals

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This looks like a really fun deck, but I would never be able to play this: It has no game against combo.

If you're just playing 3 colors though, why not just go with the old standby: Seismic Assault? The cost is rough but not prohibitive in this deck, and neither is really an early-game card anyway.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

If you're just playing 3 colors though, why not just go with the old standby: Seismic Assault? The cost is rough but not prohibitive in this deck, and neither is really an early-game card anyway.

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I don't know - playing this turn 1, and being active turn 2 against delver or other creature based decks seems pretty legitimate.

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Originally Posted by Cire

I don't know - playing this turn 1, and being active turn 2 against delver or other creature based decks seems pretty legitimate.

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While I'm supportive of this card, it needs more justification beyond being more copies of Punishing Fire.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

While I'm supportive of this card, it needs more justification beyond being more copies of Punishing Fire.

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Why not - would seem pretty good against decks that are already vulnerable to PF.

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Originally Posted by Cire

Why not - would seem pretty good against decks that are already vulnerable to PF.

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Because this card can be abrupt decayed and countered without being able to recur it. Punishing Fire cannot be abrupt decayed and can be recurred if countered.

While PF can be exiled from a GY, with smart play you can avoid that situation.

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Originally Posted by bryanzoll

Because this card can be abrupt decayed and countered without being able to recur it. Punishing Fire cannot be abrupt decayed and can be recurred if countered.

While PF can be exiled from a GY, with smart play you can avoid that situation.

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It's not like I am replacing Punishing fire though :eyebrow:

I mean I get criticism like my proposed deck is bad against combo - which sucks when omnitell is big man on campus, and i know my "land tax" list is rough and I probably don't need to run these cards as a 4 of, but I see potential in running this card as early inevitable engine by turn 2, much the same as Punishing fire. I think using both engines would give us a strong game against miracles (even though they could counter it, but that's why you get it out early)

Anyway - if Im going the wrong direction, I can completely understand. I have a tendency to be over excited over new cards

It's gonna be the rage in Modern but i don't thing Aggro Loam is it's home.