[Deck] Elves Combo

I think that against combo matchups, we have to pray to be lucky and not lose before we could disrupt or win. The occurrence of combo decks that are faster than Elves is few in number, and fortunately are being pushed out of the metagame by Canadian Threshold and its ilk. This also has the side effect of improving Elves' matchups in the metagame since decks such as Tempo generally have a difficult time with both Glimpse combo and Vengevine beatdown.

I'm not trying to shoot down the idea of Brainstorm + disruption if it means improving some matchups, but when the said matchup is Combo, and we're still only able to get ~50% win rate against them with such drastic measures, then it's probably a lost cause.

An alternative could be to play Orim's Chant/Silence against such decks, which serves as a proactive measure and is on the same color as other available sideboard cards (Gaddock Teeg, Absolute Law).

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Originally Posted by rukcus

An alternative could be to play Orim's Chant/Silence against such decks, which serves as a proactive measure and is on the same color as other available sideboard cards (Gaddock Teeg, Absolute Law).

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It is also in the right color for anyone using Mirror Entity.

Hi guys! Quick tournament-decklist summary.

I ran 3x Vengevine MD and 3x Buried Alive side. MD wincon Ezuri & Venges (I've dropped Entity since I don't have Chord...). I went with 6 grave-hate cards and 3 Absolute Law in the side. Didn't use any of them at all.

Spring Tide (2-0)
Merfolks (1-2) two mulligans to 5 but I left him at 2 life both games I lost. He topdecked a winner Dismember last game.
Affinity (2-0)
Hive Mind (0-2) I would have won both games in the next turn, awful pairing, didn't see any birchlore.
ANT Storm (2-1) He won game1, but surprisingly in game2 and 3 the Buried Vengevines bringing him down to 6 on turn 3 both games didn't let him combo- tried through Diminishing Returns, but wasn't able.

I am loving my list (if I do any better this weekend I'll post it). I played 20 games in a row against a very good Canadian player and only lost 2.


Answering to the thread discussion:
Storm combos which used to be our worse pairing are being played a lot less! Anyway, the best splash would be black over blue or white for quite simple reasons- Black doesn't require open mana at the end of turn and can be more versatile.
Grave combo can be dealt with, just pack more grave-hate. Faerie Macabre!!!
Hive Mine Is a real pain in the ass. What can we do other than pack 4x Birchlore? Play stifle? Play Sundial of the Infinite?


Good luck to you all and play hard in your tournaments! Now is the time for the Pointy Ears to ROCK!

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

Hi guys! Quick tournament-decklist summary.

I ran 3x Vengevine MD and 3x Buried Alive side. MD wincon Ezuri & Venges (I've dropped Entity since I don't have Chord...). I went with 6 grave-hate cards and 3 Absolute Law in the side. Didn't use any of them at all.

Spring Tide (2-0)
Merfolks (1-2) two mulligans to 5 but I left him at 2 life both games I lost. He topdecked a winner Dismember last game.
Affinity (2-0)
Hive Mind (0-2) I would have won both games in the next turn, awful pairing, didn't see any birchlore.
ANT Storm (2-1) He won game1, but surprisingly in game2 and 3 the Buried Vengevines bringing him down to 6 on turn 3 both games didn't let him combo- tried through Diminishing Returns, but wasn't able.

I am loving my list (if I do any better this weekend I'll post it). I played 20 games in a row against a very good Canadian player and only lost 2.


Answering to the thread discussion:
Storm combos which used to be our worse pairing are being played a lot less! Anyway, the best splash would be black over blue or white for quite simple reasons- Black doesn't require open mana at the end of turn and can be more versatile.
Grave combo can be dealt with, just pack more grave-hate. Faerie Macabre!!!
Hive Mine Is a real pain in the ass. What can we do other than pack 4x Birchlore? Play stifle? Play Sundial of the Infinite?


Good luck to you all and play hard in your tournaments! Now is the time for the Pointy Ears to ROCK!

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The story of magic is that you cannot prepare your deck for EVERY deck out there. Pick your poison and hope for good pairings.

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

Hi guys! Quick tournament-decklist summary.

I ran 3x Vengevine MD and 3x Buried Alive side. MD wincon Ezuri & Venges (I've dropped Entity since I don't have Chord...). I went with 6 grave-hate cards and 3 Absolute Law in the side. Didn't use any of them at all.

Spring Tide (2-0)
Merfolks (1-2) two mulligans to 5 but I left him at 2 life both games I lost. He topdecked a winner Dismember last game.
Affinity (2-0)
Hive Mind (0-2) I would have won both games in the next turn, awful pairing, didn't see any birchlore.
ANT Storm (2-1) He won game1, but surprisingly in game2 and 3 the Buried Vengevines bringing him down to 6 on turn 3 both games didn't let him combo- tried through Diminishing Returns, but wasn't able.

I am loving my list (if I do any better this weekend I'll post it). I played 20 games in a row against a very good Canadian player and only lost 2.


Answering to the thread discussion:
Storm combos which used to be our worse pairing are being played a lot less! Anyway, the best splash would be black over blue or white for quite simple reasons- Black doesn't require open mana at the end of turn and can be more versatile.
Grave combo can be dealt with, just pack more grave-hate. Faerie Macabre!!!
Hive Mine Is a real pain in the ass. What can we do other than pack 4x Birchlore? Play stifle? Play Sundial of the Infinite?


Good luck to you all and play hard in your tournaments! Now is the time for the Pointy Ears to ROCK!

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Angel's Grace or Silence/Orim's Chant can help if you splash white maybe but the SB is to tight.

Hi, this is my first post in the forum.
I read a lot what you write but do not usually post, because I do not speak/write English very well.

The question that prompted me to post, is the inclusion of Absolute Law as a sideboard in this deck, in almost all the lists I saw.

Is it really useful?

A white Enchant, that helps us to deal only with a few cards (like lavamancer, Firespout, punishing fire, and other burn spells)

Are these cards so threatening to our strategy or frequent enough to warrant absolute law in the sideboard?

And if so, the fact to respond to those cards, with Absolute Law, really puts us in a better position? (like a Choke vs. blue decks, for example)

The straight up answer is no, you do not need a crutch like absolute law against red. Of course it makes things easier, but it is a luxury that you can easily get by without. Personally I am 11-4 with regular combo elves against monored. I have not seen anything in those matches that would lead me to believe those results are a fluke. If you play careful, you will eventually win the game.

As far as red cards in other decks, again, if you play carefully you should not lose to a single firespout or devastating dreams type card. If they draw multiples then yes, you will probably die. That is a risk I happily take.

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Originally Posted by Anfylion

The question that prompted me to post, is the inclusion of Absolute Law as a sideboard in this deck, in almost all the lists I saw.

Is it really useful?

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Absolute Law is definitely worth considering as a side taking in account the recent rise of Tempo Threshold, and Punishing Maverick or Punishing "deck".

Mono-red decks are basically a "bye" for Elves because if they spend their cards on our creatures they won't be able to kill us because they run very few creatures, but if Canadian lands Delver of Secrets + Fire/Ice or LB and a turn 3 Firespout, we are as Dead as we can be.

Just as Maverick with a turn 2 Qasali/Reliquary and re-casting Punishing on combo pieces might also be enough to kill us.

I recommend it as a meta-game card, but if you are seeing lots of Canadian and Punishing. Test the card ;)

Hey guys, yesterday I went with the little elves to a tournament (56 attendence) and finished 9th, just missing top 8 by 3% MW. But anyway, here's how it went:
R1 & R2: byes
R3 against Merfolk
G1 I combo on T4 with Emrakul. G2 is his as he can stall me long enough to overwhelm me with the fishes. G3 is a long game were I eventually can resolve an Emrakul and he makes a mistake that costs him the game in response to the Emmie. (3-0)
R4 against Sneaky Show
I already know this is a pretty hard MU, but I'll try to outrace him. Unfortunatly he's able to get a T4 Emrakul & Progenitus in play through a Sneak Attack in G1 (he started also).
G2 I board in the Thoughtseizes and Gaddock Teeg. They both slow him down and I start the damage race. He resolves a S&T and I pact in response for Regal Force. Regal & Progenitus both enter play, but my draws are crap and I'm not able to combo teh next turn. He kills me while he is on 1 life. If only one of my cards was an elflord, I would have won. Oh well, can't win them all. (3-1)
R5 against RUGtempo
G1 is mine as I combo T4. G2 is a real grindfest and takes about 35 minutes. He eventually kills my board with Fire/Ice & Lavamancer. Were are the Absolute Laws when you need them? At this moment there are only 4 minutes remaining on the clock and I don't see him winning in that timeperiod, so I ask if he scoops. He refuses and we begin the battle. Needless to say that we run out of time and therefore draw. (3-1-1)
R6 against UWstoneblade
G1 is combotime @ T4. He countered the glimpse, but I had another one and just continued. His exact words: "That idiotic deck just doesn't die to several counters, does it?!" Gotta love the obvious :smile: G2 is almost the same, except my elves die T3 to a Wrath of God. Didn't expect that one! But no worries, 2 turns later its again clobbering time, with Teeg protecting my Elves. He reveals his hand and in it are an engineered explosives & a Wrath of God. Narrow escape from that one! (4-1-1)
As top 8 is annonced I'm the unlucky guy finishing 9th and just outside the prizes. But an overall fun tournament and the Elves are definitly a good choise in my meta.

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

Absolute Law is definitely worth considering as a side taking in account the recent rise of Tempo Threshold, and Punishing Maverick or Punishing "deck".

Mono-red decks are basically a "bye" for Elves because if they spend their cards on our creatures they won't be able to kill us because they run very few creatures, but if Canadian lands Delver of Secrets + Fire/Ice or LB and a turn 3 Firespout, we are as Dead as we can be.

Just as Maverick with a turn 2 Qasali/Reliquary and re-casting Punishing on combo pieces might also be enough to kill us.

I recommend it as a meta-game card, but if you are seeing lots of Canadian and Punishing. Test the card ;)

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just another reason to play vengevine just saying........

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Originally Posted by Branches

just another reason to play vengevine just saying........

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But in a meta that is flooded with churgical extraction (like mine), Vengevine is not that interesting. But if Extraction is not running wild, VV is a sure call.

Vengevine doesn't need to be recurred to win grind-fest games against U/B/x control decks. Just having one out and attacking is enough, with the threat of recursion.. If they waste the card-slot in bringing Extirpate effects that means less cards to deal with the combo cards.

Seems like a worthwhile risk, and as oarsman referred to, sometimes you just don't win against these decks. More often than not, you will however.

Been testing a singleton Fierce Empath in the deck, been outrageously successful. Sometimes it feels like I'm running 10 emrakuls in the deck.

The beauty of it is in the simplicity of the fact that your opponent doesn't know how much mana you can produce unless they're quite good at playing elves themselves and have a decent estimation of your hand.

Several things about the card: when you combo you basically win outright--it's nearly impossible not to produce 18-19 mana when comboing off and any GSZ or Pact results in an immediate win. Elves isn't a deck that fizzles -that- often, but it happens. This basically removes that chance without interfering with the deck's natural flow.

More importantly however, games are faster. This goes back to tournament reports I've read (and felt first hand) of Solidarity, where..while the win is inevitable, sometimes actually accomplishing that win is tedious and long--anyone else been in those games where you're sitting on a mountain of mana and emrakul is the third card from the bottom? So instead of trying to find one card, I'm trying to find one of any ten cards that win me the game during the combo. Those long games are mentally draining and exhausting, keeping track of your mana, drawing, which untappers you've used, your pile of tapped elves, how many pacts you've used for the upkeep trigger.. it's a lot to remember and think about when you have to do it every game.

To elaborate on my first point-- if you generate four mana knowing full-well you can generate 15 at any given moment, and you open with a green sun for 3, it's easy to let that slide since they're focusing on dealing with glimpse or tutors for regal force.

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Originally Posted by Darklingske

R6 against UWstoneblade
G1 is combotime @ T4. He countered the glimpse, but I had another one and just continued. His exact words: "That idiotic deck just doesn't die to several counters, does it?!" Gotta love the obvious :smile: G2 is almost the same, except my elves die T3 to a Wrath of God. Didn't expect that one! But no worries, 2 turns later its again clobbering time, with Teeg protecting my Elves. He reveals his hand and in it are an engineered explosives & a Wrath of God. Narrow escape from that one! (4-1-1)
As top 8 is annonced I'm the unlucky guy finishing 9th and just outside the prizes. But an overall fun tournament and the Elves are definitly a good choise in my meta.

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Hey Mate. Seems like it was me you played round 6 and I doubt my exact words where "that idiotic deck" as I respect the deck a lot. There must have been something lost in translation there :) I'm sure my point was, how the f*** do you kill that deck playing UW :)
I agree that Elves seem to be quite good right now, there are not that many pernicious deeds around like there use to be a while back and Wrath of God, I admit, is just bad most of time (You helped me cut them once and for all :) ). Might be just our corner of the world but f you ask me you sure are playing the correct deck.

best of luck next time

cheers

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Originally Posted by Kich867

Been testing a singleton Fierce Empath in the deck, been outrageously successful. Sometimes it feels like I'm running 10 emrakuls in the deck.

The beauty of it is in the simplicity of the fact that your opponent doesn't know how much mana you can produce unless they're quite good at playing elves themselves and have a decent estimation of your hand.

Several things about the card: when you combo you basically win outright--it's nearly impossible not to produce 18-19 mana when comboing off and any GSZ or Pact results in an immediate win. Elves isn't a deck that fizzles -that- often, but it happens. This basically removes that chance without interfering with the deck's natural flow.

More importantly however, games are faster. This goes back to tournament reports I've read (and felt first hand) of Solidarity, where..while the win is inevitable, sometimes actually accomplishing that win is tedious and long--anyone else been in those games where you're sitting on a mountain of mana and emrakul is the third card from the bottom? So instead of trying to find one card, I'm trying to find one of any ten cards that win me the game during the combo. Those long games are mentally draining and exhausting, keeping track of your mana, drawing, which untappers you've used, your pile of tapped elves, how many pacts you've used for the upkeep trigger.. it's a lot to remember and think about when you have to do it every game.

To elaborate on my first point-- if you generate four mana knowing full-well you can generate 15 at any given moment, and you open with a green sun for 3, it's easy to let that slide since they're focusing on dealing with glimpse or tutors for regal force.

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I know I'm stating the obvious, but Empath grabs Regal Force, too...that's kind of hawt tech, my friend. I've been fiddling around with a singleton Weird Harvest lately, and this seems like a potential upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I know I'm stating the obvious, but Empath grabs Regal Force, too...that's kind of hawt tech, my friend. I've been fiddling around with a singleton Weird Harvest lately, and this seems like a potential upgrade.

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Interestingly enough, that was not obvious to me--I never thought of doing that. Pact / GSZ are better for it, but if shit hits the fan and you've got mana to burn and need to win and no pact/gsz in hand, he's an extra way to get there that, again, doesn't really impede the deck whatsoever.

I've never drawn him and been like, "Damnit." People look at him and regard him as Emrakul, if he resolves, they lose--I've had people scoop to a GSZ for 3 with enough shit on the board.

PS -- Shout outs to Maine, I grew up there, miss it every day. I was born in Augusta and lived in Yarmouth (Yuppieville*) for years haha.

I like Empath over Summoner's Pact for one very specific reason: he cantrips with Glimpse and avoids the 4 mana upkeep if shit goes south.

My reasoning for Weird Harvest was that I could nab a handfull of stuff like extra Nettles, RForce, and Emrakul. GSZ is great and all...but does not trigger Glimpse. Weird Harvest can enable the Glimpse chain. That's why I'm testing, and I like the idea of Empath quite a bit.

P.S. Nice...I was born in New Gloucester and still live there today... I lol'd at the Yuppieville line. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Setherial

Hey Mate. Seems like it was me you played round 6 and I doubt my exact words where "that idiotic deck" as I respect the deck a lot. There must have been something lost in translation there :) I'm sure my point was, how the f*** do you kill that deck playing UW :)

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You're right. That was the sentence used :smile: Another player said that to me afterwards and I must have mixed the 2 phrases. BTW; I know he & you meant it in a respectful way.

@Kich867

Usually when you go off, you can draw your whole deck and never get to 0 because you can use GSZ for 0 and keep allways them in the deck. But for streamlined combo versions, FE can be used in Viridian Shaman slot or something..

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Originally Posted by Godmode

@Kich867

Usually when you go off, you can draw your whole deck and never get to 0 because you can use GSZ for 0 and keep allways them in the deck. But for streamlined combo versions, FE can be used in Viridian Shaman slot or something..

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That was the point. It's not that you don't win, it's that you need to draw your entire deck in order to win. This takes time, you need to keep track of your mana the entire time, you need to make sure you don't miss anything during the entire combo--FE greatly reduces that time.

While the card may not vastly improve consistency or apply some new strategy, what it does do is allow you to fetch emrakul so long as you have it or any of your 8 tutors--I frequently can't find a glimpse but have the mana to play Emrakul.

The time saved from having to combo means fewer draws and less stress on your mind for future games, this helps overall performance of the pilot by keeping the games shorter and quicker. I've played tons of games and just forgotten shit because the last game was so long I was stressed on time.