They have to show up, have to resolve and they may be killed only to show up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
I run 2 main and 1 on the side for now in my welder build.
Printable View
They have to show up, have to resolve and they may be killed only to show up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
I run 2 main and 1 on the side for now in my welder build.
I just received mine in the mail, too. I'll definitely be running two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I run two maindeck, they are a sweeper and a wincon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Keller
Talking about sweepers; anyone ever tried oblivion stone in mud? Its ok in tron and since MUD took their cloudpost mana base.
Havent tried O.Stone, but with having Spine of Ish Sah, Steel Hellkite, Ugin, Karn and All is Dust i cannot imagine a 12 mana costing removal is better then these options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Spine of ish shah isnt very much played anymore. Probaly due to karn. Karn is kind of obsolete for MUD since Ugin. The problem with Karn is that he doesnt work against a horde of threads because he kan only take on 1 permanent at a time. I think ugin also makes all is dust unnatractive- ugin hits colored permanents too and is 1 mana more while doing a lot more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
O.Stone is not 12 mana. it cost 3 to play and 5 to blow up the board. Thats 8 if you want to use him directly. Yes he blows up artifacts too- wich is a problem if you play lock pieces on the other hand> he can be tutored up when needed by kuldotha (maybe 1 of?) and reset the game wich might be handy when you have a lot of post mana laying around. Its a theory.
Spine is still a very solid choice. It can be fetched with Forgemaster and solves problems on the spot. I keep it in my 75 as an answer all. It worked wonders against several decks ie Batterskull, Jace, Emrakul, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Karn Liberated and Ugin are way different. Kind of like Jace and Liliana different. Ugin is probably the better choice in most cases, but against certain matchups i would rather have Karn. Karn can be seen as a Liliana of the Veil. It removes problematic permanents while also being able to put pressure on the opponents hand. Ugin is different. Ugin is what was missing in MUD. It shoots down smaller creatures, with the upside of a build in sweep. So he is Pernicious Deed and Lightning Bolt in one, but both don't help in some matchup (Combo/heavy Control).
Anyway, Elves of all critter decks is one of the decks where Ugin should shine and Elves is a difficult matchup.
Its Ultimate is more of a win more. By the time you can activate it you won already.
As for OStone i read his second ability backwards, but reading it makes me think of a weird version of Nevinyrral's Disk. I still think we have better options in the previius mentioned.
I really keep going back to Razormane Masticore in this deck. In fact, I like it better than Lodestone Golem - even though both serve alternate purposes while still being beaters. Lightning Bolt is still highly prevalent and I just don't like the toughness of three in there. His ability becomes overly redundant, and while taxing opposition is always nice, wouldn't Chalice and Trinisphere be enough here?
I get that most lists run him for a reason, but I don't know, I'm always underwhelmed whenever I play this guy. Of course, my list is slightly different than most builds.
I used to play razormane masticore in my stompy build (no forgemaster) as a sideboard card (two slots): it was solid in the match ups where it was needed, but the drawback can sometimes "lock" you out of the game.
It certainly is a strong option but it's better in more aggressive versions of the deck
I love the Golems in my deck, would never run less than 4.
How where the Scarecrone's in actual gameplay? Decided to order a couple and try them aswell. The card has been on my radar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Although i really like my Welder build i am gonna run Cloudpost instead. I think that Cloudpost can support Ugin a bit better/different.
So this list i have thought up and going to take out for some play. Still need to find space to fit in 2 Scarecrone.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sideboard:
1 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Karn Liberated
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 open slots
Scarecrone is three mana so you can play them always. Im not sure if they should be main-deck. But of course you can always sac them for a draw if u wish.
Maybe put 2 of them in your open sideboard slots?
Side them in against control with many counters and against decks that run discard. T4 mana to bring back a fatty? nice!
Why no duplicant in your sideboard? Its funny against show and tell.
Also, since you run 3 ugins you might want to consider thran dynamo instead of grim monolith. Its 2 mana more but it gives 3 mana every turn the rest of your game, its a more resilient metalworker. i love them.
Guys, quick question for all those who have tested the card in MUD so far:
How has Ugin the Spirit Dragon been performing for you in this deck? I haven't played MUD in a long time but the recent success testing Ugin in Modern in my Tron deck has me wondering if this card could single-handedly turn MUD into a real Tier 1 contender in Legacy. Has Ugin been as successful as I think it should be or not?
So far i havent resolved one yet in tournament. As a 2-off with 0 manipulation cards have a tendency to not show up or at the wrong time.
Had 2 rounds actual tournament play with Ugin.
BUG Delver 1-2 G1 Bad Keep 7, Ugin got discarded by Hymn to Tourach.
G2 Blow out. T1 i put Mountain + Welder. T2 he has untapped USea. I decide to waste it instead of going City of Traitors + Metalworker. The next turn i do and hes stuck with Bayou and Wasteland. He wastes the city, but i was able to drop Lodestone Golem and Steel Hellkite on my turn. (Ugin could have resolved T2 here, but wasnt there).
G3 Mull 5. T1 Land, DRS. T2 Hymn + Waste. T3 Abrupt Decay on Monolith, scoop..
R2 Storm. 2-0. Ugin is obsolete here.
G1, T2 Lodestone Golem is enough.
G2, He probes and see Great Furnace, welder, 3sphere, forgemaster, golem, emperion, lotus petal. I top a monolith and go T1 Trinisphere stopping him from go of T2. We draw go for a bit until i find a City of Triators and am able to land a second monolith, a LGreaves and a Welder. Start flipping some mana and drop emperion.
Overall only the BUG matchup was representative. With BUG delver you would want to be very fast. Knowing when to mull key.
Thats why put in 2 scroll rack. It doesnt care about chalice because 2 mana and it can dig pretty deep in your deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Also thran dynamo over monolith. Try it once and be amazed. t2 into 4 mana happens often, i drop thran and play a trinisphere of it- no couters? then next turn i have 7 mana wich is enough. essentialy than dynamo is (harder to remove) metalworker 5-7, plus its good against wasteland locks against lands.
In my short experience, he is beyond good. I have two problems frequently with MUD (I'm on a 11-Post-list, monobrown, 2x Ugin):Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
a) I get crippled by discard, Daze und Wasteland: Ugin doesn't help there, but neither do Karn or Sunderng Titan which used to take up the two Ugin-slots.
b) My opponent doesn't care about Chalice and Trinisphere and floods the board with creatures. Goblins for instance, a prominent deck where I play, can deploy so many dorks, they don't even care about Wurmcoil Engine. It's here that Ugin is insane: in the aggro-matchup, against an opponent without counters. It does everything you could expect from a card that expensive: clear the board and win shortly after.
Note that Death and Taxes can still drop a Revoker naming Ugin (which happens a lot). But then again, Revoker already names Forgemaster, Metalworker and Steel Hellkite.
On another topic: I happen to lose unnecessarily to Wasteland-recusion via Loam. That is a matchup I never have problem with apart from that. Does anyone have experience with Thran Dynamo against land destruction? I know the card from standard and also know it looks good in theory but I see downsides. It you get wasted early, you might never reach 4 mana. And 4 mana into Dynamo into Trinisphere leaves you vulnerable to Daze twice.
I always found ratchet bomb pretty solid against goblins, elves, even delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourach
The difference between 2 and 4 mana isnt big in MUD. Plus it really isnt that expensive since you can tap thran dynamo carefree- it will untap next turn. If they daze it all the better. They only can daze so much, just spam a constant stream of must counters. sometimes i play dynamo into worker, upon they counter worker. I dont care. i have dynamo out + 4 mana. all i need.
While Ugin is a great printing for the deck I can't see it turning the deck into a Tier 1 contender. MUD has always been an ok choice and there has never been a problem with its power level but the consistency is lacking. While Ugin solves some problems it doesn't solve everything, most specifically the inherent inconsistency of the deck. Opening hands of multiple city of traitors as the only lands, only vesuvas or a bunch of 5-8 drops with only 3 mana producing lands still happen and until that changes then I can't see a future where MUD consistently top 8s large events like various delver decks or miracles, unless there is just a large influx of MUD players for some reason. Now don't get me wrong, when you cast Ugin he is fantastic but with wasteland being a lot more popular since cruise left getting the mana is still a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
This is kind of where I was going back to before: the deck should be running Darksteel Citadel in multiples, if not four. I use it as an alternative to Wasteland. In Post-based builds, you're looking to advance your resources as opposed to setting yourself back. It's different in Legacy than Vintage, because you don't have Moxen and broken accelerates to cheat your way out of mana screw. In Legacy and especially the Post builds, you need to develop your resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by BTY
Wasteland is great if you're playing a more taxing variety of MUD with additional sphere effects, but I just don't think it's worth the space here. I would feel so much more comfortable dropping a Darksteel Citadel turn one as opposed to a Wasteland or some other mana source that is sure to be destroyed by an opposing Wasteland, even if sequenced correctly.
I know I'm the guy who is coming in and saying Lodestone Golem and Wasteland might not be the way to go here, but what I can offer is some outside perspective from someone who is a closet-MUD fanatic and player and has paid attention to and studied whatever video there is out there to determine the deck's strengths and weaknesses - aside from the obvious general inconsistencies the deck presents.
Don't hack me to pieces for trying something a little different here, but does anyone think a build with Razormane Masticore - which seems extremely good in this deck right now - could be used in conjunction with, say, a singleton or pair of Ghost Towns? Ghost Town could help feed Masticore as a de facto Squee of sorts, in addition to allowing you to play a freshly drawn business spell that you don't want to discard. During your opponent's turn, bring the Town back to your hand and discard it to Masticore.
Just an idea.
*raises pitchfork*Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Keller;865751
Don't hack me to pieces for trying something a little different here, but does anyone think a build with [cards
I do like the idea of Razor Kitty but I feel like he'd be best as a singleton or a 2 of. or a bad replacement for Lodestone Golem. the 5 mana is what royally sucks. I would definetly have him a try in a Daretti/Welder Build. And I would be running Scuttling Doom Engine as a singleton in the deck as well. That card has been performing for me so well for me as of late.
I just really don't think that five mana is an issue with this deck, as a large part of the deck's fabric is designed with acceleration in mind. Getting to five mana on turn two or three is definitely not a stretch in MUD - especially with a Post mana base. I'm more concerned with card quality as opposed to mana quantity. If I can generate a boatload of mana, I am fairly comfortable with investing it in a card or cards that operate well with the overall strategy of the deck, which is to overwhelm opponents with huge artifact creatures. The Lightning Bolt effect is highly underrated here, as is the card's first-striking ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
Those abilities, while attractive on paper, are even more powerful in actual in-game scenarios where you're not only controlling the board but dealing damage in the process.
Five mana seems slightly closer to the mean converted mana cost in my build at least, and in a Post-build base that seems just fine as a two-of. It also depends on what draw elements you're running, too. The card becomes that much better when you're drawing extra cards to feed Masticore. We're also only talking about a two-of, at most. Pushing this card through opposing defenses shouldn't be hard when you consider this thing can do eight damage and stay on the table.