http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...7610538512.png
Imho this is a very nice reset.
This card may play similar to cascade: Yahenni's -> Agent -> something.
Maybe this card can found a place in our 15's.
Very nice.
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http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...7610538512.png
Imho this is a very nice reset.
This card may play similar to cascade: Yahenni's -> Agent -> something.
Maybe this card can found a place in our 15's.
Very nice.
I'm pretty sure the -3/-3 effect is bad. Kills everything in this deck not named Tarmogoyf (most of the time...), doesn't kill any big eldrazi, Angel tokens, and that's without any thought put in to what it's bad against. I'd rather play Languish, but I'm pretty sure that Deluge is still just better.
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I'm going to test it. At first glance it seems better than one of the two Deluges in my 75. Deluging for 4+ is often miserable, and being able to extract 7 mana of value might offset 2BB upfront. This into Agent into... anything but Decay? Or this into Liliana against Angler + nonsense?Sign me up.
There are times where this deck wants a board wipe, so it killing our things doesn't matter so much. Why does this deck run a wipe if it's concerned about its things dying. It kills plenty of creatures and it's another varying cost to counteract different CMC preventing things. Sure top decking this instead of Deluge when you can pay the life for Deluge can be bad, but top decking Deluge when you can't pay life is just as bad anyway. The card's top end has a lot of potential and I don't see where it's low end is any worse than some of our cards we run that don't have nearly a high of a ceiling as this card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I'll test this and replace Jace.
Sure. Do your thing, but it's not a very playable card imo. Costs too much/doesn't do enough to be all that relevant against the matchups it needs to be good against: DnT and Eldrazi.
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this card is strictly worse than damnation when you don't have a creature card in hand. and if you're not playing creatures because of this card then you're losing your advantage. i see this card as nothing more than "cute" because of it's potential plays with shardless agent. might be, MIGHT BE, a sideboard card vs heavy mentor miracles lists but then again, bug already has a pretty good matchup vs miracles anyway.
It lets you cast any card, not just creatures. So you can cast an Ancestral Vision, Liliana etc off it.Quote:
Originally Posted by drocker23
Had it been confirmed, even? There's a period missing at the end of the last sentence and a couple other things (text size, the writing in the foil mark at the bottom) that has me raising eyebrows... Anyway, how does this work? Is the you may cast a trigger upon this being cast, because if it is, then let's say you cast shardless off it. Cast trigger resolves hitting a Baleful Strix or drs. Both creatures resolve and then both immediately die? Does the -3/-3 happen first and then cast? When are the negs applied? I guess I need to know more before I judge it, but I still am certain that -3/-3 isn't good enough.
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It's a mock up, and the -3 effect happens first.
This kills every creature in D&T, and Deluge is ok against Eldrazi, but far from amazing. I'm not saying that this will revolutionize deckbuilding in BUG, but it's definitely testable. It might even give a non-Shardless shell the velocity it needs to competw with Shardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
You're correct, it does kill everything in DnT, but it costs 4 against DnT. Yes, you get value, but only if you get to cast it.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
-3/-3 doesn't kill a TKS, Smasher, or any big Eldrazi. That seems like a big deal.
You probably aren't winning against D&T if you can't get to 2BB (or 3BB) main phase. Tarmogoyf remains bigger than any commonly played Eldrazi except Oblivion Sower, and the Eldrazi matchup is still significantly in Shardless's favor without Deluge. I'd probably swap Expertise for Deluge out of the board (or leave Deluge in rather than boarding in Expertise) against Eldrazi, but it's not like Deluge is thrilling against them, and Expertise does kill Matter Reshaper (which is their best 4-of), small Endless Ones, and Eldrazi Mimic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
hmm....i missed that when reading the card. thanks for the heads up. better than i gave it credit for because i thought it could only play creatures......still not really sure that this is a card you'll want in shardless bugQuote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
It also doesn't kill 4/4 Angels whereas paying 4 life with Deluge can.
That's been mentioned but also rather irrelevant because as you know, a Miracles player worth his salt will not open themselves up to sorcery speed removal.
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The primary downside I see relative to Deluge is the cost. My instinct is that you want a 1/1 split with Deluge, and I'm not sure how that works main/side.Quote:
Originally Posted by drocker23
This is the only creature that I'm troubled by its being out of range. I think EOT and midcombat Entreats are much more problematic and once they've resolved the damage is usually done. This might change if Expertise was an Instant, but if you accept that Expertise is net +EV relative to a second Deluge against Delver, Elves, D&T, and Eldrazi I don't think being worse against Sorcery-speed Entreat is enough to disqualify it from testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
but sometimes it might take multiple attack phases to win. perhaps during a previous turn, the angels were made to block your opponent's creatures. they could take a hit, then untap and cast Toxic Deluge or Maelstrom Pulse. it's not necessarily a mistake made by the other player. sometimes, you're forced into these type of situations. just hope you have a way to stop the pulse or the deluge afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Sure, it still feels corner-case, but you are right.
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I've been playing a fair bit of Bant recently and have been really impressed with Noble Hierarch and Leovold, I wonder if they can fit in the Shardless shell. While Hierarch isn't a great cascade, what she does for the rest of the deck might be worth it.
I have something like this in mind.
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Baleful Strix
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4 Shardless Agent
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
I think Leovold (and Hierarch) are fine cards, but the Shardless shell already has enough expensive value guys and mana creatures. I've been thinking of Leovold as the centerpiece of a non-Shardless BUG deck, but I haven't liked him in Shardless.