[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Sigyn

Hi guys!

I've been working on a UBgr ANT list, when I started building I put myself some goals to achieve:

-Be wasteland resilient.
-Have a solid manabase even I'm splashing 2 more colors, in the way of being capable of casting all your spells most times.
-Have a plan to beat discard spells as BUG/Jund are rising in popularity nowadays.
-Be prepared to beat counterbalance.
-Have a plan against RUG and Esper Blade.
-I won't be prepared for MUD or another tomb chalice.decks because it would be too greedy with only 15 slots on SB.
-Achieve those goals with a list as fast as possible.

So... after testing I've come to this:

Pretty standard I must say...

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Swamp


I run 15 lands, I tried 14+Chrome mox but in a metagame full of discard-spells I think is not a good idea 2 for 1 yourself, even though Chrome mox makes the deck faster by making Ad Nauseam a much better choice when you go off.

2 Gemstone Mines are from Adam Prosak's list. At first I disliked them because I thought they made my manabase worse, but now i don't think so, I know they are wasteable, but Trop/Bayou MD also are, and they can produce every color you need to play all your splashes in addition to Volcanic Island and trop SB. They are also inmune to stifle effects, which is relevant against RUG/BUG, you just hold them in hand until you go off, in this scenario are way better than other land because makes every colour you need and can't be stifled. The worse side is when you only have gemstones in your hand against a wasteland deck and that's the reason I only run 2 of them. The fact that they only have 3 maximum uses wouldn't be relevant in this deck if you play them correctly.

I've been playing 3 basics (2 island 1 swamp) since I started working on ANT, I love the 2nd island against stifle+waste decks where you need to cast a ton of cantrips to grind them out and be resilient to wasteland at the same time. I also love the 8th fetch because it provides you another shuffle-effect and can find basic swamp. I prefer the fetch against most of the decks but tempo, so that's the reason I only play 2. I must say i'm not sold on any side of this question, I'm still testing it. What do you guys think about it?


1 ToA
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual


Pretty standard build as i said before. I'm running 5 tutors because when I tested with 2 Grims I had hands with too much business, besides the fact that Grim Tutor is sooo terrible, with 1 Grim you're not dead to a surgical on your infernals, and I feel I have good chances of finding the business as I would have if only I was playing 4 tutors. Running that build allows me to play 2 preordain which I really like to filter my top anyway I only own 1 Grim so there's nothing I can do about it. :laugh:

I would like to play 8 discard spells MD but I only have room for 7, so the 8th goes to the SB.


Sideboard:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Chain of vapor
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Tropical Island



4 Dark confidant: Mostly against discard spells, some people said me I was making my opp removal usefull, but honestly, I think Dark confidant worth it, my opponents usually left a little spot removal post board, 4 stp, 4 lightning... stuff like that, so there're sometimes where they have to burn cantrips to find the card that deals with Dark Confidant, that's why I run 4, I often want a 2nd to start overwhelming my opp in card advantage.
I think that's the best way to deal against discard spells, PIF makes us some kind of resilient if we have a ritual-heavy hand but with the appereance
of Deathrite Shaman, we definitely need to run something to refill our's deck gas.

At first, I used the green splash to play Xantid Swarm, I really like those insects because they are insane against blue decks, they have to find an answer or loose. In the current metagame I think dark confidant covers way more matchups, so that's the reason I don't play any of them, against RUG I preffer Xantid instead of Confidant, but the wizard is not bat at all and help us a lot against other decks.

In a deck that runs 4 Cabal therapy post SB I also found really nice having the opportunity to flash my therapies back! :wink:

3 Abrupt Decay: Against Cbalance, if I expect them I would probably run 4.

3 Cov: Really good against a lot of things, you know...

2 Tormod's Crypt: I want to have some GY hate, to have a chance against Reanimator or a high speed start of LED Dredge, I know since DRS was printed GY decks are not as common as before, but I wanted to be covered if I could.

Those are my actual SB plans:

RUG/BUG/Esper Blade:

-4 Probe
-2 Preordain
+4 Dark confidant
+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Thoughtseize

I do not bring the 16th land, but I don't splash green, so the manabase is less tricky with this plan. I tried carpet of flowers and is nice, but I have no room for it.

UW Miracles:

-4 Probe
-1 Lotus Petal
-1 Verdant Catacombs

+3 Abrupt Decay
+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Tropical Island

Reanimator:

-4 Probe
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Cabal Therapy

Show and tell:

-4 Probe
-2 Preordain
+4 Dark Confidant (they have no way to interact and if you can slow them with your discard spells, Dark confidant can provide you a huge advantage)
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Cabal Therapy

Dredge:

-2 Cabal Therapy
+2 Tormod's Crypt

Jund:

-4 Duress
+4 Dark Confidant

Hatebears:

-4 Duress
-2 Preordain
-1 Verdant catacombs
+3 Abrupt Decay
+3 Chain of Vapor
+1 Tropical Island

Notice I left my 3 cabal therapies in against non blue, that's because I always try to fire one naming mindbreak trap just in case, and, in worst case scenario it can be used to discard some guys to buy us some time.


I'll appreciate comments to improve my deck!

Thanks!

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cut preordain, play chrome mox in those spots, makes your AN way better, 15 land is fine. gemstone is bad, play 8 min fetches, makes your brainstorms better, the 2nd grim is not really worth it, at least you "figured" that one out. bob is pretty bad unless it is against landstill and even then he is maybe ok (but still pretty bad), but those decks don't exist anymore, jund will just kill him. don't know what matches you want to be on 9 discard, but whatever. I posted a list on the last page(229) that is practically identical to yours, I didn't give a detailed breakdown since I figured at this point people get it. but more power to ya. reading is cool. I'm a dick.

I wouldn't board in bobs versus RUG. I would board in the extra land since they have wasteland/ stifle i would also board out AN for ETW since you can just kill them with 12 goblins pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by ThomasDowd

cut preordain, play chrome mox in those spots, makes your AN way better, 15 land is fine. gemstone is bad, play 8 min fetches, makes your brainstorms better, the 2nd grim is not really worth it, at least you "figured" that one out. bob is pretty bad unless it is against landstill and even then he is maybe ok (but still pretty bad), but those decks don't exist anymore, jund will just kill him. don't know what matches you want to be on 9 discard, but whatever. I posted a list on the last page(229) that is practically identical to yours, I didn't give a detailed breakdown since I figured at this point people get it. but more power to ya. reading is cool. I'm a dick.

I wouldn't board in bobs versus RUG. I would board in the extra land since they have wasteland/ stifle i would also board out AN for ETW since you can just kill them with 12 goblins pretty easily.

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Bob is actually very good against jund, they have no deck manipulation and usually board out bolt, if not abrupt decay is slow as hell. I have had no problem with bob vs jund or Bug, I agree with you on rug, just board in an empty (more chances of drawing a threat naturally, even if ad naus is now more risky) the land is also pretty good.

Also we now play therapy! don't forget this. Bob is also insane in the mirror and vs sneak.

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Originally Posted by Rekk

Bob is actually very good against jund, they have no deck manipulation and usually board out bolt, if not abrupt decay is slow as hell. I have had no problem with bob vs jund or Bug, I agree with you on rug, just board in an empty (more chances of drawing a threat naturally, even if ad naus is now more risky) the land is also pretty good.

Also we now play therapy! don't forget this. Bob is also insane in the mirror and vs sneak.

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Every Show and Tell opponent I have played recently has had some number of Leylines :(

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

Every Show and Tell opponent I have played recently has had some number of Leylines :(

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grrr i love hate that card in show, the deck is clunky already but leyline is just insane for the deck.

i guess you have to prioritize chain over bob in those cases. I ususally try to win game one not mess with the chains then hopefully they mull and don't get it or i just try to win game 3.
(also you watch how quickly they board in 4 cards) considering misdirection is actually bad against us. I always try to bait it with duress saying Targeting you.

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Originally Posted by leegoo

Right, only if you want to use your tutor will it cost you 6 life... you know what I meant however. But you are right, revealing it and NOT casting it saves you (maybe) one life if the next card you flip is LED/Petal and then IT. Point conceded.
Grim Tutor is a bad card. It's simply the best card ANT has access to for the slot. It's been this way ever since Mystical was banned. It still is.

I said if he wanted to beat discard decks the 2nd Ad Nauseam is better than the Grim Tutor. Having 2 chances at raw drawing Ad Nauseam as opposed to having to tutor for it is huge against discard decks.

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Granted. ;-)

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Made top 8 of SCG Edison with a pretty standard list that someone gave me after I decided to not play Jund.

Deck is well positioned if even a novice like me (haven't played ANT in 18 months) can top 8.

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

Made top 8 of SCG Edison with a pretty standard list that someone gave me after I decided to not play Jund.

Deck is well positioned if even a novice like me (haven't played ANT in 18 months) can top 8.

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Congrats! Anything you felt was clunky or out of place?

Hey guys, got 9th at the Legacy side-event at GP London yesterday. I hadn't played Legacy Storm (or much Legacy at all) before and I was ill so I muddled my way through the tournament, but I had a lot of fun and the deck was solid.

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
2 Gitaxian Probe

4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

3 Duress
1 Thoughtseize

1 Chrome Mox
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Badlands
1 Underground Sea
1 Steam Vents (couldn't find a Volc ;/)
1 Island

SB:
1 Time Spiral
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Empty the Warrens
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
1 Deathmark
1 Grapeshot
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Slaughter Pact

A few comments about the list:

- I never used the SB Time Spiral and there were at least two games where Diminishing Returns would have been better. A SB Past in Flames would have been nice as well (since frequently either it or IGG would have led to a guaranteed win but I had needed to Duress/Therapy away a FoW). The rest of the wishboard was kinda thrown together last minute.
- I usually get worried about such low land counts but 15 felt about right; I only had to mulligan no-landers twice.
- Reforge was meant for the discard-heavy matchups like Jund (the idea being that you can Wish for it and Brainstorm it back) and it can play the same role as Returns/Spiral as well. I think there's some potential for a Reforge-fueled Storm deck, but not in a shell like this.
- I chose to run more action spells over additional discard; I'm not sure if this is correct, since the majority of ANT players seem to be doing fine with the discard-heavy configuration and I ended up missing discard more often than missing action. My theory was that against decks like Stoneblade I would have time to Wish for discard if I needed it and that I'd want Wish if I was comboing. This didn't account for permanent-based hate, which I didn't face very often, but non-Thoughtseize discard can be hit-and-miss against that too.

Might write up a short report when I get back from class.

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Originally Posted by VeniVidiVici

Hey guys, got 9th at the Legacy side-event at GP London yesterday. I hadn't played Legacy Storm (or much Legacy at all) before and I was ill so I muddled my way through the tournament, but I had a lot of fun and the deck was solid.

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Your list looks like an amalgamation of Ant with a TES sideboard. I really dislike the so few protection spells, and the manabase looks awkward. I'm glad it worked for you though! Reports are always appreciated

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

Congrats! Anything you felt was clunky or out of place?

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MVP: The whole maindeck

LVP: The Karakas and Dread of Night

Of course I didn't play against a single Maverick, Reanimator or SnT variant.

But if you expect more SnT and Maverick I could see SBing Karakas, otherwise I'd change those 2 cards for something else.

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

MVP: The whole maindeck

LVP: The Karakas and Dread of Night

Of course I didn't play against a single Maverick, Reanimator or SnT variant.

But if you expect more SnT and Maverick I could see SBing Karakas, otherwise I'd change those 2 cards for something else.

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Do you like Badlands over 2nd Island Maindeck?, with such a little red splash I don't think the Badlands is necessary, I like playing 3 basics to fight against BUG/RUG, being able to chain some cantrips and stuff without been exposed to wasteland is pretty good.

Gz for your finish! ANT is a really cool deck! :)

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Originally Posted by Sigyn

Do you like Badlands over 2nd Island Maindeck?, with such a little red splash I don't think the Badlands is necessary, I like playing 3 basics to fight against BUG/RUG, being able to chain some cantrips and stuff without been exposed to wasteland is pretty good.

Gz for your finish! ANT is a really cool deck! :)

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Getting Wastelanded into mana screw rarely mattered (played against Jund (win), BUG midrange (loss), and BUG Delver (win))

Fetching for the 2 basics is fine, however you usually end up fetching for Underground Sea since the deck really wants to play multiple cantrips and disruption in a single turn.

I could see Badlands getting cut for a 2nd basic if you really expect a lot of Wastelands.

As you can probably tell from the Steam Vents, the manabase wasn't ideal :P. I had one game that was much harder than it should have been due to Rainforest not fetching Badlands, and I couldn't try SB Decay or w/e since I couldn't find a Trop.

Report up here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...hamps&p=703778

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

MVP: The whole maindeck

LVP: The Karakas and Dread of Night

Of course I didn't play against a single Maverick, Reanimator or SnT variant.

But if you expect more SnT and Maverick I could see SBing Karakas, otherwise I'd change those 2 cards for something else.

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this was a last min change to the board what i suggested we do was 2 karakas, or we cut a abrupt decay for the 4th bob and play 3 dread of night.

as a sidenote, with the popularity of LoS i could also see adding 1 e truth

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

Getting Wastelanded into mana screw rarely mattered (played against Jund (win), BUG midrange (loss), and BUG Delver (win))

Fetching for the 2 basics is fine, however you usually end up fetching for Underground Sea since the deck really wants to play multiple cantrips and disruption in a single turn.

I could see Badlands getting cut for a 2nd basic if you really expect a lot of Wastelands.

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sorry to butt in once again, (i lent the deck out for preface)

the second island got cut for the trop if you want two islands move the trop to the board cut the bayou. green is a much lighter splash then red and you really want a land that can cast duress after brainstrom, fetch, bandlands, duress, untap kill with access to red and black.

Just started to play ANT with a wishboard, but there are some free slots.
What do you think about X. Swarm? Isn't it exactly the card we need in this deck? It can be casted early and protect all spells.

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Originally Posted by Seraph2k

Just started to play ANT with a wishboard, but there are some free slots.
What do you think about X. Swarm? Isn't it exactly the card we need in this deck? It can be casted early and protect all spells.

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I tried Xantid Swarm for the longest time. It's pretty bad most of the time except against Griselbrand decks.
I'm rocking Dark Confidants right now against the Tempo decks, and planning to go slow-Tendrils plan.

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Originally Posted by Koby

I tried Xantid Swarm for the longest time. It's pretty bad most of the time except against Griselbrand decks.
I'm rocking Dark Confidants right now against the Tempo decks, and planning to go slow-Tendrils plan.

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im on this plan as well. Jack Wang did just fine with it last weekend while I was in NJ.

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Originally Posted by Rekk

sorry to butt in once again, (i lent the deck out for preface)

the second island got cut for the trop if you want two islands move the trop to the board cut the bayou. green is a much lighter splash then red and you really want a land that can cast duress after brainstrom, fetch, bandlands, duress, untap kill with access to red and black.

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That sideboard change seems fine. The Trop could have been an Island and I would have never noticed a difference.

What is the general strategy against rug? I find myself losing most of if not all my matches to them. Do I board in bobs or just xantid swarms?

First stop siding these in and you should do better. -1 ad nauseam +1 empty the warrens is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by mike1987

What is the general strategy against rug? I find myself losing most of if not all my matches to them. Do I board in bobs or just xantid swarms?

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Bob and swarms are really useless against rug, I used to side out ad nauseam and side in multiple empty warren. carpet of flowers is the best choice in this mu in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by GoblinZ

Bob and swarms are really useless against rug, I used to side out ad nauseam and side in multiple empty warren. carpet of flowers is the best choice in this mu in my opinion.

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they can operate on two mana. they will also daze carpet on site and then waste your green source. rough times.

i usually just go up to 8 pack of discard and bring in warrens.

RUG isnt' hard, but you have to be able to read them. Their deck telegraphs what's in their hand pretty hard. If they have no turn 1 play you can make reasonable assumptions about their full grip.

Fetch basics.

Know when to make them want to stifle your land, and when not to.

I have started doing much better with this deck since I started playing one Empty the Warrens and no Ad Nauseams main.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

I have started doing much better with this deck since I started playing one Empty the Warrens and no Ad Nauseams main.

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I assure you, you should be playing the Ad Nauseam main.

At GP Denver I went 9-5 in the main event, 3-0 in a side event, and 2-1 in another side event, and I only ever cast Ad Nauseam once. My record was mediocre, but it gave me a lot of sanctioned experience with the deck during the course of one weekend. The one time I cast AN I realized that Ill-gotten Gains would have also won that game (not saying anything one way or another about this card). I think if people find they are consistently tutoring for Ad Nauseam, they are probably doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

At GP Denver I went 9-5 in the main event, 3-0 in a side event, and 2-1 in another side event, and I only ever cast Ad Nauseam once. My record was mediocre, but it gave me a lot of sanctioned experience with the deck during the course of one weekend. The one time I cast AN I realized that Ill-gotten Gains would have also won that game (not saying anything one way or another about this card). I think if people find they are consistently tutoring for Ad Nauseam, they are probably doing something wrong.

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its a good way to get past a drs on the draw turn 2 without needing excessive mana to get an extra tutor.

DRS is awkward for two reasons - You tutor for an extra tutor first, thus requiring an actual boatload of mana to combo. You do this, and they strip a dark ritual from your graveyard to manascrew you. You don't do this, you have to rely on cantrips to combo out. It all depends on the hand. If they have more than one DRS and more than one black mana, prepare to try to slog through. You'll need a stacked hand to combo at this point.

Ad nauseam is completely necessary. Try cutting it, I know I wouldn't. It's nice to draw almost yawg's bargain naturally to just go 5 mana into ad nauseam without requiring LED's or infernal tutors.

I think both PIF and IGG are easier to go off, since they are deterministic.

But neither replaces the need for some hands to go for Ad Nauseam. The card has no substitute in the deck.

I just re-pick my ANT recently and I see there are a lot of people who have one empty warren in their sb. I think it is for the tempo deck like canadian. Does it work?

Stealing a decklist someone posted on storm boards, what does everyone think?

Luftlande-Sturm

Qty ED Name
// Lands
1 ON Island
1 MM Swamp
2 U Underground Sea
1 B Volcanic Island
2 R Tropical Island
1 R Badlands
4 ON Polluted Delta
3 ZEN Scalding Tarn
1 ON Bloodstained Mire
//\
// Spells
4 MM Brainstorm
4 M10 Ponder
4 NPH Gitaxian Probe
4 JU Cabal Therapy
3 US Duress
4 R Dark Ritual
4 TO Cabal Ritual
4 TE Lotus Petal
4 MI Lion's Eye Diamond
4 DIS Infernal Tutor
2 JU Burning Wish
2 ISD Past in Flames
1 ALA Ad Nauseam
1 SC Tendrils of Agony
//\
// Sideboard
1 SC Tendrils of Agony
1 TSP Empty the Warrens
1 PT Virtue's Ruin
1 ON Chain of Vapor
1 DS Echoing Truth
2 RTR Abrupt Decay
4 SC Xantid Swarm
4 RAV Dark Confidant

He said he went 6-0 in a 40ppl event.

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Originally Posted by Star|Scream

Stealing a decklist someone posted on storm boards, what does everyone think?

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why play 2 past in flames? I think it is absurd

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Originally Posted by GoblinZ

I just re-pick my ANT recently and I see there are a lot of people who have one empty warren in their sb. I think it is for the tempo deck like canadian. Does it work?

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Yeah, for Canadian, BUG and Jund.

Well... it works, it's not like... OMG super good, but it's OK, imo is a win condition with less requirements than others (less mana, less storm), so in those matchups where you are facing quite a lot of disruption does the work pretty well since those kind of decks don't usually run many ways to get rid of a bunch of 1/1s.

EDIT:

He runs 2 past in flames in order to increase the chances of having 1 in hand, actually you can even go off through countermagic with the appropiate amount of mana which is nice, that been said i'd never go for 2 PIF maideck since you're uping your converted mana cost and making Ad nauseams even worse, and yeah, Ad nauseam is bad but you have to run it, ther're hands or situations where Ad nauseam is the best option.

If you want to focus on PIF engine, play another deck (PIF storm or something like that).

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Originally Posted by GoblinZ

why play 2 past in flames? I think it is absurd

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it's really good, shines vs. Threshold and makes deck both a little bit faster+resilient, making sure you ~never lose G1... it's presence in Deathrite Shaman meta is questionable so I don't play it regularly, used to be absurd not to play two until RtR

+I know the guy & I actually have "developed" the tech ;) he went 6-0 quite easily beating me round 1 in the mirror (because he had 2 btw ;)

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

it's really good, shines vs. Threshold and makes deck both a little bit faster+resilient, making sure you ~never lose G1... it's presence in Deathrite Shaman meta is questionable so I don't play it regularly, used to be absurd not to play two until RtR

+I know the guy & I actually have "developed" the tech ;) he went 6-0 quite easily beating me round 1 in the mirror (because he had 2 btw ;)

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Even with DRS, the inclusion of burning wish AND infernal tutor gives you *some* outs against extraction effects

With release of DrShaman the deck got significantly weaker, discard alone doesn't matter, experiencing a loss with Jund or similar bx stupidity is frustrating

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

With release of DrShaman the deck got significantly weaker, discard alone doesn't matter, experiencing a loss with Jund or similar bx stupidity is frustrating

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This.

How often do you find yourself boarding in Abrupt Decay?

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Originally Posted by MTG Junkie

How often do you find yourself boarding in Abrupt Decay?

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Not a lot but it's because my meta is like tons of Esper Blade.

I board them against:

UW Miracles
Maverick and things like that with Thalia and Gaddock combined with chain of vapor, is not as good as chain but I need to bring as much answers as I can.
Infect
Chalice of the void decks.