[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I could see swapping ulamog and kozilek for x2 platinum emperion if you are anticipating burn over other problems. I might consider it myself with me testing more of the though-knot seer, since most decks only have 1-2 ways of dealing with platinum emperion, so extra draws don't matter if you clear the right card.

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That's all true. I did notice show and tell into Emperion is a clear cut answer to elves, storm, burn, ur delver, all in cases where getting a non triggered eldrazi would have done nothing. It feels like show and tell builds need Emperion for immediate impact. Combining it with thought knot seer is really interesting though.

Don't you miss Needle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I could see swapping ulamog and kozilek for x2 platinum emperion if you are anticipating burn over other problems. I might consider it myself with me testing more of the though-knot seer, since most decks only have 1-2 ways of dealing with platinum emperion, so extra draws don't matter if you clear the right card.

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Ulamogs role is pretty similar to Ugin, so I could see to swap Ulamog for Platinum, which also increases the power of Show and Tell and might make the 4th copy viable in your build. Anyway strong innovation to run AS in an Ug build, as it acts as a stronger Ponder or should be compared to it at least. Also if some of you play Trinket Mage, you should consider to run AS instead. It is not an direct tutor, but digs pretty deep and can catch more things.

I disagree that the below list doesn't count as Turbo Eldrazi. It uses cloud post mana and cost reducers to turbo out massive Eldrazi.

As the OP stated: "The core:
4 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

Because this core constitutes a good chunk of your manabase it leaves the remainder of the deck up for considerable variation."

The below list plays the same core cards to achieve the same end goal. I think this is the optimal direction the deck should take given the fantastic new Eldrazi that were printed in Oath. When ridiculously powerful cards like Seer and Smasher get printed, even the best decks should evolve to take advantage of new powerful cards.

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
2 Vesuva

4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Conduit of Ruin

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

2 Endbringer
1 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

I am everybit as confident in my recommendation of Endless One as I was when I recommended Conduit of Ruin. It's done an amazing job smoothing out the curve and gives the deck both a way to stabilize early against fast aggro and yet another game winning bomb against control in the late game.

I've been much happier with Kozilek's Channeler than I was with any of the artifact mana generators I've tried. It's cost is reduced by Eye of Ugin, Eldrazi Temple and Conduit of Ruin and it comes with a solid 4/4 body and reusability. It lets you sac Crystal Vein or cast City of Traitors early without having to constrain yourself in terms of mana and enables casting the big Eldrazi that you tutor up with Conduit. It lets you cast bigger Endless One and fuels massive Mimic attacks. It also allowed me to go back down to 26 land.

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

I disagree that the below list doesn't count as Turbo Eldrazi. It uses cloud post mana and cost reducers to turbo out massive Eldrazi.

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Just a continuation of this thread being completely unorganized- nearly unable to continue a train of thought. I have never heard of the deck being called anything but eldrazi stompy. Usually any deck with mana accelerants with chalices and 3ball is considered to fit into the stompy category. This is where you want to be: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...i-Stompy/page8

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Originally Posted by drude1

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

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That's a very interesting point, especially since most of Burn's curve is at 1cmc. I'm going to test one in my board now.


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Info for mkm series milano;)

Legacy Trial on friday:

Of course im.on the finals but lose to elves (Julian Knab)
T3 Kill of him;) then he get beaten by ulamog and ugin and then he t2 killed me.

But very nice start for the weekend..

Saturday legacy:

Not much to say...my badest legacy tournament ever..

1:2 Goblins ( Mull to 6 on the draw, lackey gets me, g2 win and g 3 Mull to 5..into double wasteland..)

0:2 Aggro Loam Hard to beat..

So 0:2 Drop and play the Big modern Trial;)

I played Tron and won the whole Trial and get 2 byes for tomorrow:)

12 Post lists follows;)

Still a ver y nice Weekend:)

Greets

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Originally Posted by drude1

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

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I wholeheartedly agree, 12Post isn't Eldrazi Stompy.

Hi guys, here I am, back from MKM series in Milan. FIRST, a little note: it's about 30 hours that I don't sleep, I was in Florida yesterday, I went from the airport to the tournament directly at 6am. :cry: sorry for the bad report and grammar mistakes.

here is the list that I had:

2 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
2 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
2 Expedition Map
1 Forest
2 Warping Wail
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
3 Terminus
1 Scroll Rack
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Flooded Strand
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog


I did some important changes three days ago, and I was very curious to test them.

1) Miracle, 2-0. g1: impressive, 2 terminus HARDCASTED clean the battlefield from clique/mentor. Easy ramp g2: I don't remember exactly, in my notes I see only "UGIN".

2) D&T, 2-1. g1: 2 terminus casted by miracle trigger, this gave me time to ramp with no pressure. g2: he had everything, I had few things g3: I saw 2 needle, one on vial and the other on port, and the game is easy.

3) D&T 1-2 g1: he played vial, wasteland and an horde of creatures, I cannot resist. g2: ramp with emrakul and ugin :laugh: g3: same as g1

4) sneak attack 0-2 g1: on 3rd turn he combo'd off, sneack->grisel->emra, nothing I can do g2: very loooong game, I play a needle on sneack and another on grisel, he plays TWO blood moon, I destroy one with krosan, I try with a BEB on the other one but it's countered, I have one titan into play, he is at 8 hp, he plays its 10th land and cast omniscience -_-

5) merfolk 1-2 g1: He plays a lot of creature, but I think I can handle the situation, I'm ready to play a titan covered by a cavern, when he plays a wasteland on one cloudpost. Totally unexpected :( . g2: he screwed with mana g3: he is killing me with 2 mutavault and a lord. I play a needle, forced. Good, he has 2 cards in hand, I play crop rotation to be ready to cast something on the next round (don't remember if ugin or ulamog). His turn he wastes my cloudpost again -_-. Maybe here I misplayed, but I was died for sure if I did nothing on the next round.....I could play crop in EOT, but I was afraid that he drew a counter.

6) bug 2-0 he made some errors and I had no pressure in general, both games.

7) bug 1-2 g1: needle naming wasteland, show and tell into nothing just to see if he has a counter, path is clear, ugin. g2: don't remember g3: mulligan to 5, I play sensei, he plays needle on it. My next draw will be emrakul, ulamog, terminus, terminus, with 2 useless land in game.

In general, despite the 3-4, I'm very happy of this build. I never used Scroll Rack, but I thought it could be useful to put a terminus back on the library. I would play Jace, that is much much better, but the 2 blue mana used to cast it are bad. I will try with Jace next time and see.
Warping Wail was very useful against come clique and DTS.....but in some situation if I had StP it was better (against tarmo for example). I will keep warping probably, to be protected also against sorcery (it countered an entreat the angel on first game).
Ulamog mainboard is a must, I'm sorry for old Kozilek but there is no room for it at the moment.

I'm going to bed now, I need to sleeeep!!

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Originally Posted by drude1

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

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It's definitely got some legs against burn!
-Primeval Titan counters fireblast!
-The million one drops counter all the cheap burn spells.
-I also feel like we want some 2 drops to counter price of progress, since that's the "Achilles heel" of the 12post.

I don't understand why you guys prefer newKozi over emperion (at least, against burn and storm). G1 against these decks is 100% win if you drop emperion, they have NO responses to it. G2 also they have only sideboard cards to defeat it, they have to find them or nothing.
Also, newKozi cannot do much against price, cabal ritual, demonic pact, past in flames, ad nauseam, at least in a classical 12post build.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Finally found a build I am happy with.

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [OGW] Wastes

Went 3-0 with weekly magic. matchups were Lands, Jund, Moggcatcher. all 2-0'd.

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Am i counting wrong or are you running 61 MB cards???

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Originally Posted by Morden

I don't understand why you guys prefer newKozi over emperion (at least, against burn and storm). G1 against these decks is 100% win if you drop emperion, they have NO responses to it. G2 also they have only sideboard cards to defeat it, they have to find them or nothing.
Also, newKozi cannot do much against price, cabal ritual, demonic pact, past in flames, ad nauseam, at least in a classical 12post build.

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It appears that they're interchangeable, dependent upon the metagame you're in; NuKoz is much better in midrange matches, Emperion is much better in an aggressive metagame. Both have their uses and their flaws.

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

Am i counting wrong or are you running 61 MB cards???

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Indeed on 61. Always working on trimming.

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Originally Posted by drude1

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

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Interesting point, got my attention! Lost my last two matches against Burn/RDW, 1:2 against Burn, 0:2 against RDW. :cry: As you said, Chasm doesn't help my, since PoP is an instant. Normally I would go back to Emperion (mayber 1 main, 1 SB), but most red players bring in some copies of Smash to S., so Emperion isn't really safe. Here comes new Kozilek: should be able to prevent some damage, but cmc2 can be difficult. But there are also Flusterstorms to handle PoPs. And Kozilek can end the game very fast...like the idea and will give it a try, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Indeed on 61. Always working on trimming.

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So I've been testing you're build online and it does run well, but i'm having trouble with side-boarding. could you give some insight into how exactly are you boarding with this puppy? are you boarding out AS?
Sometimes I'm also puzzled as to which digging option to use first, when i have a hand consisting of brainstorm, AS, top... i had a few misplays with it. So you would normally brainstorm -> AS -> then play top? i mean i was used to dropping top ASAP, but now i'm not sure?

Had an interesting match against a sort of Lands deck yesterday, when i crop bog-ed him and could pay for later surgical extractions with bojuka, that was sweet.

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

So I've been testing you're build online and it does run well, but i'm having trouble with side-boarding. could you give some insight into how exactly are you boarding with this puppy? are you boarding out AS?
Sometimes I'm also puzzled as to which digging option to use first, when i have a hand consisting of brainstorm, AS, top... i had a few misplays with it. So you would normally brainstorm -> AS -> then play top? i mean i was used to dropping top ASAP, but now i'm not sure?

Had an interesting match against a sort of Lands deck yesterday, when i crop bog-ed him and could pay for later surgical extractions with bojuka, that was sweet.

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Cards I find I side out often are as follows: Emperion (vs easy removal), Warping Wail (if they don't have sorceries of note, or a snail won't help me), Crop Rotation (anything with CB I take this out), Show and Tell (vs Show and Tell decks, but I am reconsidering with TKS), Candelabra (decks with heavy land and/or hand disruption), Eldrazi Package (mostly combo decks too fast for top end to matter), Titans (vs reanimator, or decks where lifegain/utility lands won't win me the game), Utility lands (depends, but I often side out 1 land every non-wasteland match).

Hope this provides some vague help and lets you mix and match appropriately.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

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ahaha you finally dropped glacial! omg don't make me play thought-knot seer, some of the worst art i've seen in my life...

EDIT: you went down to 24 lands? bojuka in the side?? hm... bojuka is thy only defense against many decks out there, are ya sure you want to drop it??

Thought-knot seer has been great for me so far. I am actually playing 3 copies main. He pull the best card out of your opponent's hand or clears the way of counterspells for your haymaker. He also serves as a very good blocker against most other creatures in the format. I've been playing both him and warring wail main, and I honestly think that TKS has more utility. These also give me two drops and four drops for new Kozilek!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

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very beautiful list, I'd play the same if I didn't have white splash. Maybe with another 2/ 3 cmc card

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Postman

Normally I would go back to Emperion (mayber 1 main, 1 SB), but most red players bring in some copies of Smash to S., so Emperion isn't really safe. Here comes new Kozilek: should be able to prevent some damage, but cmc2 can be difficult. But there are also Flusterstorms to handle PoPs.

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you are right, that's why I always side in also 2 beb. I know, BEB is a card useful only against few matchups, but these ones are the worst: burn and sneack&show (only a needle can save us from sure death, and post side bloodmoon is present).
BEB helps a lot also against every bloodmoon deck, we have krosan of course, but against these decks I wanna be SURE to draw something against bloodmoon.
Consider also this: do you prefer to drop an emperion, and wait that the opponent luckly draws a smash, or do you prefer to drop nuKozi, and HOPE to have a cmc2 cost to counter a PoP (for sure in 4x)? Also if chances are the same (let's say you have 4 cards with cmc2 and he has 4 smash or similiar), when you drop an emperion he can do NOTHING until he draws something to destroy it; with Kozi on the field, he can still attack, try some shots, of course he is "limited" but can react. Smash on emperion? beb/fluster and gg.

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Originally Posted by Morden

you are right, that's why I always side in also 2 beb. I know, BEB is a card useful only against few matchups, but these ones are the worst: burn and sneack&show (only a needle can save us from sure death, and post side bloodmoon is present).
BEB helps a lot also against every bloodmoon deck, we have krosan of course, but against these decks I wanna be SURE to draw something against bloodmoon.
Consider also this: do you prefer to drop an emperion, and wait that the opponent luckly draws a smash, or do you prefer to drop nuKozi, and HOPE to have a cmc2 cost to counter a PoP (for sure in 4x)? Also if chances are the same (let's say you have 4 cards with cmc2 and he has 4 smash or similiar), when you drop an emperion he can do NOTHING until he draws something to destroy it; with Kozi on the field, he can still attack, try some shots, of course he is "limited" but can react. Smash on emperion? beb/fluster and gg.

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First, I totally agree with everything above. And if I wanted to bring one of these two cards in from the SB just for the burn match-up, I would consider the emperion. Having said that, I do think that Kozilek has more general relevance as a main board card as it is also very good against combo (STORM) and can protect itself from things like swords to plowshares. It can also be bounced and replayed with Karakas to get more cards. You can also still use fetches, keep your Glacial Chasm for another turn or two and gain life off of Glimmerpost with Kozilek. I would also remind you that you that the burn player does not need smash to get rid of Emperion. From personal experience, I can tell you that they can just point 3 burn spells at the Empirion and save the haymaker (eg. Price of Progress) for your face. And of course, I am not playing blue. So BeB/flusterstorm are not options for some of us.

Still wouldn't go nearly as far as saying that Emperion is a bad choice though.

Burn is an issue that is the reason why I keep my 4 Leylines in the sb. Obviously I don't play the blue list but mono g plus savannah.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

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Looks interesting, will give it a try today :smile: Only thing what's strange to me (without testing) is the Wastes land instead of Bojuka Bog. Usually, there should be about 10 sources able to produce Waste mana (8 posts, 2 caverns). Only reason I can think of is that Wastes counts as a basic and produces Waste mana even under Blood Moon...And Bojuka Bog is soooo great in many MUs, I really don't want to miss it (shines against Reanimator, RUG, Lands, Stom, etc...)Can you give a short insight, please?

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Originally Posted by cherson

Burn is an issue that is the reason why I keep my 4 Leylines in the sb. Obviously I don't play the blue list but mono g plus savannah.

Gesendet von meinem ONE E1003 mit Tapatalk

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Thought of Leyline as well, but it doesn't help against PoP?

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Originally Posted by Postman

Thought of Leyline as well, but it doesn't help against PoP?

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I might be lucky but I haven't had that much trouble vs Burn.

They get me down to roughly 5-7 life and then I just explode with Primeval Titan and gain a billion life with Glimmerpost/Mina and Denn uber combo.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

I might be lucky but I haven't had that much trouble vs Burn.

They get me down to roughly 5-7 life and then I just explode with Primeval Titan and gain a billion life with Glimmerpost/Mina and Denn uber combo.

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The last games against Burn/RDW went like T1 Swift Spear, T2 Goblin Guide plus Lava Spike, T3 Bolt +PoP, game 2 Sulfuric Vortex stops life gain, or Skullcrack...

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Originally Posted by Postman

Thought of Leyline as well, but it doesn't help against PoP?

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Thats right but ignoring all other 3dmg spells is genius and might give u enough time to set up you own win con

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

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Rock, how are you beating lands without Repeal for Marit Leige and/or Pithing needle for Wasteland? I understand that you can Karakas the 1st Marit, but what about the 2nd one? Likewise, how are they not wastelanding you to oblivion?
Is your plan to just show and tell titan ASAP?

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Originally Posted by Postman

The last games against Burn/RDW went like T1 Swift Spear, T2 Goblin Guide plus Lava Spike, T3 Bolt +PoP, game 2 Sulfuric Vortex stops life gain, or Skullcrack...

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I haven't seen Swift Spear on MTGO in quite some time. I usually always see T1 GG, T2 Bolt+Chain, T3 Spike+Bolt+RBolt

EDIT: Of course God hands happen, there's not much anyone CAN do

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

Rock, how are you beating lands without Repeal for Marit Leige and/or Pithing needle for Wasteland? I understand that you can Karakas the 1st Marit, but what about the 2nd one? Likewise, how are they not wastelanding you to oblivion?
Is your plan to just show and tell titan ASAP?

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Outside of what you mentioned, warping wail counters loam and gamble, and I sideboard 4 surgicals. Thought knot seer also a beast in this matchup.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

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Well, did some testing against RUG... let's say it this way: WOHOOO!:laugh:
Have been skeptical before the matches because of the missing Repeals, Needle/Revoker and Bojuka Bog, but the deck ran fantastic. Lost lands due to Wasteland/Stifle, but it didn't matter. Ugin / Emperion won the games:cool: Didn't see Kozilek, but I guess he will shine at the Burn/Storm MUs in the future. Not sure about Ulamog 2.0...the card is soooo insane, maybe I will cut 1 Emperion for him. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Postman

Well, did some testing against RUG... let's say it this way: WOHOOO!:laugh:
Have been skeptical before the matches because of the missing Repeals, Needle/Revoker and Bojuka Bog, but the deck ran fantastic. Lost lands due to Wasteland/Stifle, but it didn't matter. Ugin / Emperion won the games:cool: Didn't see Kozilek, but I guess he will shine at the Burn/Storm MUs in the future. Not sure about Ulamog 2.0...the card is soooo insane, maybe I will cut 1 Emperion for him. Thoughts?

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I'd cut an Ugin rather than an emperion. You lose one removal effect for another one, uncounterable and tutorable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Postman

Well, did some testing against RUG... let's say it this way: WOHOOO!:laugh:
Have been skeptical before the matches because of the missing Repeals, Needle/Revoker and Bojuka Bog, but the deck ran fantastic. Lost lands due to Wasteland/Stifle, but it didn't matter. Ugin / Emperion won the games:cool: Didn't see Kozilek, but I guess he will shine at the Burn/Storm MUs in the future. Not sure about Ulamog 2.0...the card is soooo insane, maybe I will cut 1 Emperion for him. Thoughts?

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I don't play blue, but had the same general thoughts on the list. this deck has very few outs to an ensnaring bridge (including zero outs in the main). Nulamog answers lots of problems for this deck. As said above, Emperion is searchable, so why play more than one?


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I picked up the GR version in preparation for Leagues starting next week, and I went 3-9 in games last night. I play the UG version in paper, but did not want to drop the $250 on Show and Tells and Mistys online quite yet. Maybe I am just super terrible, but Drude1, I would love to see your SB guide, as I was just annihilated by Aggro Eldrazi, Shardless and Grixis Delver. I am playing 3 Kozilek's Return in the side now.

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Originally Posted by drude1

I don't play blue, but had the same general thoughts on the list. this deck has very few outs to an ensnaring bridge (including zero outs in the main). Nulamog answers lots of problems for this deck. As said above, Emperion is searchable, so why play more than one?


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An ensnaring bridge main board can still be beaten with Ugin as his +2 is still a bolt to the face. His ultimate definitely puts the game far in your favor as well.

Aggro Eldrazi's only bad match up seems to be lands. I have not lost playing lands against aggro eldrazi. I enjoy playing the mono G version of Turbo Eldrazi and in no way can I beat the aggro Eldrazi. I have lost every match (I also am not good) 1-10. The one match I won, I was able to resolve a platinum emperion to which they have no answers. I do not have as much problems with other decks. I have taken down a few tournaments with my mono G list and have a blast playing the deck, I just can't win against aggro Eldrazi. I was wondering if their would be any good sideboard options against this deck as it seems to be picking up in popularity? Candlesticks 4 Life.

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Originally Posted by Brendelton

Aggro Eldrazi's only bad match up seems to be lands. I have not lost playing lands against aggro eldrazi. I enjoy playing the mono G version of Turbo Eldrazi and in no way can I beat the aggro Eldrazi. I have lost every match (I also am not good) 1-10. The one match I won, I was able to resolve a platinum emperion to which they have no answers. I do not have as much problems with other decks. I have taken down a few tournaments with my mono G list and have a blast playing the deck, I just can't win against aggro Eldrazi. I was wondering if their would be any good sideboard options against this deck as it seems to be picking up in popularity? Candlesticks 4 Life.

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I've only played against it a few times so far (Colorless Green build for me, as always). It doesn't seem to be a good matchup by any means (although I also had awful mulls and a small sample size, so my data may be skewed). Maze did a reasonable amount of work for me, although I played once vs a port of the UR version that went much too wide for it to save me. Warping Wail bought me some time by making chump blockers, but still wasn't ideal.

The problem with this matchup, as I see it so far, is that they're basically a more aggressive MUD that is largely immune to Grip. They play Chalice which slows us down considerably and also blank Ugin and All Is Dust, which is the traditional way to keep the board under control. O-Stone postboard helps, and I could see adding a second one if this deck becomes more popular.

The good news is that they run out of steam quickly if you can survive the initial onslaught, and their "little" Eldrazi can't do much against an Eldrazi titan. The builds that run locus lands also power our top end, although I expect these decks to eventually move away from using a Post manabase because it's far too slow and inconsistent without a land-tutoring package or Candles.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emrakul503

I picked up the GR version in preparation for Leagues starting next week, and I went 3-9 in games last night. I play the UG version in paper, but did not want to drop the $250 on Show and Tells and Mistys online quite yet. Maybe I am just super terrible, but Drude1, I would love to see your SB guide, as I was just annihilated by Aggro Eldrazi, Shardless and Grixis Delver. I am playing 3 Kozilek's Return in the side now.

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Here is the list that I'm currently playing:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
3 [UG] Forest
2 [B] Taiga
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
3 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wail
2 [OGW] Kozilek's Return
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings

// Sideboard
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Cursed Totem
SB: 1 Choke

I do feel like I want to get one copy of Platinum Emperion in the 75 somewhere but not sure where. Would probably cut a Red Blast.
Interestingly, I have played against Aggro Eldrazi 4-5 times now and haven't lost a match. I have been possibly been lucky because I have seen the deck just explode by turn 2 and wreck me. But most of the time I can stabilize with thought-knot seer and buy enough time to land a Primeval Titan. Then it's just over. I was having some trouble with shardless as well so started running a choke and brought trinispheres in. When I was on G/W the match-up was much better with 4 leyline. And if you really wanted better game against those decks specifically you could run G/W with an increase in sensei's top and terminus main along with leyline in the board. I actually go back and forth myself still. Obviously terminus doesn't play well with thought-knot seer, which is why I switched to red. I would never not play thought-knot seer in the deck at this point.