I just joined to check it out. Never heard of it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
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I just joined to check it out. Never heard of it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
Pox players are hardcoreQuote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
And, user Hardcore is a pox player!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lava Snacks
yo man! its a great group that is very active..Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
they cover everything pox or monoblack..(different builds of legacy pox, 8-rack and sometimes pauper MBC too..)
:smile::smile:
Scroll of Fate in Pox?
Yes, most definitely a good option. Card for reference:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittplayer
https://i.imgur.com/clZF3Dt.jpg
So, what are some plays you would make with the card?
Sent from my Android Palantír using Tapatalk
1 - It makes Dark Ritual good at all stages of the game. Early it can fuel busted plays, mid-late game it becomes a 2/2 beaterQuote:
Originally Posted by Numenorean
2 - It makes targeted discard good at all stages of the game. Early disruption, 2/2 beater mid-late game when opponents are empty handed
3 - The activation cost is free, which for a deck like Pox that kills its own lands is huge.
I thought of pox when I saw that card as well (though not the most busted use of it). I'm inclined to agree that its worth testing if nothing else. To add on to Mr. Safety's list, we tend to be land heavy in many builds so those late game land drops become beaters too.
Turning everything in your deck into a win-con?! Sign me up! Scroll of Fate: Grand Order. Probably quite strong as a 2 of. 1 might be too few. I'm running a double crucible build.
I would go so far as to consider cutting 1 of the utility lands for a Swamp, probably a Factory, to further stabilize the mana-base. It might not be necessary, simply because the Scroll incentivizes you to play Dark Rituals (which also help stabilize the mana by giving multiple black mana to cast the BB spells.) Factories help cast Scroll but you occasionally get mana-screwed in Pox because you don't have BB.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
Ruling question: Say I manifest Hymn to Tourach, swing for 2 damage, they try Swords to plowshares before damage. Can I instant speed Hymn their hand in response? Or flip a manifested land to dodge the removal?
If you flicker a manifested card and it is a non-permanent, it stays exiled. If it's permanent it comes into play as whatever it is. So, in your example, no you cannot instant speed hymn their hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Note that with this specific ability, you can only flip up creatures by paying their cost, anything else needs to be externally flickered by something else.
The way I see it in Pox we shouldn't focus on Scroll of Fate to cheat stuff or bypass casting obstacles like Dreadnought decks are discussing. I'm thinking back to lots of game where (pre Last Hope days) where we have a Liliana and a Cursed Scroll out, and our play pattern is activate Cursed Scroll, then uptick Liliana to keep their hand low/empty. Stuff we're losing is no longer relevant like Hymns and extra Lilianas. In this case Scroll of Fate activations earns us a free body to bring our clock down from the glacial pace it typically resides.
I 100% agree; this isn't a combo card for pox, it's just a threat that fits well in the strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
http://picsmine.com/wp-content/uploa...ullet-Meme.jpg
Sure. But Bane of the Living gives Pox an uncounterable instant speed board wipe with Scroll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
the card is so hard to pass up..turns our dead draws into gas..not sure how many copies i'd run but i'm definitely getting a copy or two..
8-rack in modern could really use this effect.. :cry:
After testing Scroll of Fate, it seems to me to be an auto-include in most Pox decks.
Upsides:
Makes creatures uncounterable and able to be played at instant speed.
Bane of the Living is an uncounterable instant speed board wipe with Scroll on the field.
Jace hesitates to bounce the manifested creatures since the control player does not know what card you will be getting back in hand.
You can manifest creatures eot to give them pseudo haste.
All kinds of tricks with morph creatures.
No more dead draws, all your cards can be 2/2's.
No activation cost besides tapping.
Makes Pox decks less GY dependent.
Makes discard spells dead against you since you can just manifest in response to a discard spell.
Downsides:
Dies to abrupt decay and kolaghan's command.
Can be stopped by needle/revoker.
Counterable.
1. Making creatures uncounterable doesn't seem that exciting because what creatures are you even playing? You don't care if they counter your Bloodghast or Nether Spirit and if you manifest Tombstalker or Angler then the 'uncounterable creature' aspect is irrelevant because you'll never have enough mana to flip them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittplayer
2. I don't think the deck would ever play Bane of the Living even if there is a combo that lets you play it facedown for 0 mana.
3. This point about jace is nonsense, if the 2/2 was a card that you really wanted to keep in hand then you wouldn't have manifested it in the first place.
4. Yup this is nice but will be awkward with Liliana sometimes.
5. Which ones?
6. Yes, this is the best reason to play the card.
7. Yeah this is cool, doesn't interfere with paying for Mishra's Factory / Cursed Scroll
8. Kind of? But a lot of the existing winconditions aren't very grave dependent anyway. For example you could argue this replaces Crucible, which is highly graveyard dependent, but Crucible acting as disruption by returning Wastelands is an extremely strong upside that this card doesn't have. PWs also are not graveyard dependent. So while I agree that not being GY dependent is good, I'm not sure how significant that is
9. Okay, but this is kind of marginal, it's only relevant after resolving a 3-mana artifact when you are otherwise hellbent in which case discardspells aren't going to be very effective against you anyway
1. Yeah being an artifact is worse than Enchantment/PW, K-Command isn't too popular at the moment but Abrade/Grudge are around
2. Yeah, being an activated ability is a downside, but the deck has so many other targets for needles (PW/Scroll/Waste/Factory) that I think it's probably ok
3. Yup this is a downside but applies to most cards
I think the biggest drawbacks are
1. Makes you choose between a 2/2 or a spell. You won't always topdeck a blank and every turn you do draw a relevant spell, this card won't do anything (or at least it forces you to make an awkward decision). It's also technically always going to be card disadvantage so you have to dig through a LOT of blanks for it to start to make sense.
2. Not disruption. In this slot there are many other cards you could choose that not only win the game but also interact with the opponent: Davriel, Last Hope, Crucible (indirectly), Cursed Scroll, etc. Most people are not playing cards that only win the game and do nothing else e.g. Underworld Dreams or Shrieking Affliction. This is arguably a bit better than those two, because the 2/2s can attack planeswalkers and also block, and a 2/2 every turn probably kills the opponent faster than Shrieking Affliction, but many of these other wincon options function as discard or removal (or as a mana source, in the case of Factory/Urami etc), while this doesn't.
3. You are still turning cards into creatures which can clash with the symmetrical anti-creature options like Smallpox/Innocent Blood/Toxic Deluge/Ensnaring Bridge etc
I think the card seems reasonable but I'm not totally sold on it
Mire in Misery. Auto include in Pox sideboards.
In response to your opposite attacking, you manifest Bane of the Living for free, then flip it for whatever, 3 Mana, 4 Mana etc. Seems pretty good to me. And I stated my post after play testing. You can argue the points, but I am speaking from experience, Jace bouncing creatues to hand is a lot less attractive when you could be bouncing a pw kill spell you didn't think you needed earlier, or a smallpox, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Mire in misery (Commander 2019)
cc : 1B
Sorcery
Each opponent sacrifice a creature or enchantment.
The effect is unique enough for black (Maro hinted other similar ones might come later) so it is worth considering it. Opponent can choose so most of the time it will be a bad card but if it has a potential somewhere for dealing with enchantments it is in POX shell.
According to scryfall, the card isn't legal in any format. Is that an error?Quote:
Originally Posted by Albarkhane
Probably just because it hasn't been released yet. Once it does I'm sure it will update. Other new C19 cards say the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Well C19 comes out this Friday, so they aren't released yet. Probably that.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Doing some testing with Scroll of Fate, hasn't been as impactful as I'd have liked it to be, at least not as a 4-of.
Comes across like Crucible of Worlds, when it sticks and is good in the game, like enabling a Waste-lock or allowing advantageous combats recurring Factories, then it;s the best card ever.
Other times it just sort of sits there, while we wilt away against better draws and better threats.
Yes in multiples you can just Manifest the other, but in too many games I would need something immediate, an answer to SFM or Dreadhorde Arcanist about to take over the game for example.
So when I draw 1 Scroll of Fate then see another, seems in many cases any of the 3-ofs in the list that could be 4-ofs would have been better served there.
I'm going to trim back to 2 copies and continue games to see what the balance should be.
And that's why we do fun-ofs. I'm fine with just one Crucible, one Nether Void, 1 MD Liliana, the Last Hope. The inherent weakness of Scroll of Fate in Pox, much like any other card choice, is that it doesn't follow the 3 commandments: deals damage, provides mana, disrupt the opponent. Crucible does all of the above depending on your utility lands - Mishra's Factory, Urborg, Cabal Pit come to mind. The killer land at this point would be EtB tapped & target player discards a card. :eek: I'd only run 1 Scroll of Fate. But doesn't it synergize with Cursed Scroll? No blockers = 4 damage for 3 cmc.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
I don't think pox runs Never//Return anymore, but just in case someone does we have a new-ish version of it:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-conte...375.jpg?x96163
Text:
Adventure: Swift End, instant - 1BB
Destroy target creature or PW, you lose 2 life.
Creature part:
Murderous rider - 1BB - 2/3 Lifelink. When it dies,t put it on the bottom of your library.
I don't know that this is enough to help with late game attrition, but letting it sit in exile, untouchable, might be useful in certain builds. Likely for the mono-black crowd if i had to guess.
If nothing else, I think the promo art looks cool!
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-conte...371.jpg?x96163
Awkwardly if it gets discarded or countered it sits as a creature in the GY and disables Nether Spirit, which is something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
Last Hope can return it if that does happen though, which is something I guess
A reusable Hero's Downfall that's a Lifelinking 3/2 at worst? :eek::laugh::laugh: I'll try 2. I'm using Eternal God Bontu in my Nether Spirit slot so creatures in the yard are no longer an issue for me. Main decking 2 Liliana, the Last Hope ensures late game dominance.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
The awkward thing then is that if everything works successfully, then when the Knight dies you can't actually re-use it because it tucks itselfQuote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
A bit of a catch-22
Its probably a puny 1/1, but bloodghast builds might be interested (pre-grave hate sideboarding at least).
https://preview.redd.it/o8nb2u9qhyl3...=webp&d8816447
Ayara, First of Lockthwain. BBB. Elf Noble.
Whenever ~ or another black creature ETB under your control, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
T, sac another black creature - draw a card.
Manaless dredge might be interested in this one as well. Downside if you put plague/engineer on elves, you might negate this card, depending on its toughness.
scroll of fate is a way to feed a contamination lock by providing a creature each turn :cool:
So, how about Fires of Invention in B/R pox?
By the time you can expect to play a 4-mana enchantment in pox both players hands are probably near-empty, and if you're topdecking then this card doesn't really do anything, because any spell that could be cast with its ability could be cast from lands instead. It's nice that it lets you play spells for free while you keep your mana open for Mishra's Factory / Cursed Scroll activations but it doesn't seem worth spending 4 mana and a card for this effect. It would probably be better just to have a card like Coercive Portal / Bottled CloisterQuote:
Originally Posted by Pittplayer
Taking a depths flavor of pox to the weekly Monday, inspired by a list i found in here a while back. Have the following list.
4 crop rotation
3 inquisition of Kozilek
3 hymn to tourach
4 smallpox
2 cabal therapy
4 lili of the veil
3 abrupt decay
3 entomb
2 life from the loam
1 toxic deluge
1 ravens crime
1 nether spirit
1 darkblast
1 pernicious deed
1 tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 cabal pit
4 wasteland
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 verdant catacomb
1 bloodstained mire
1 polluted delta
1 dark depths
2 swamp
1 forest
4 bayou
2 thespian's stage
1 mishra's factory
1 bojuka bog
board:
1 golgari brownscale
1 bontu's reckoning
2 surgical extraction
2 engineered plague
1 leyline of the void
1 krosan reclamation
1 coffin purge
1 sadistic sacrament
1 damping sphere
1 choke
1 pithing needle
1 lost legacy
1 <open>
The deck definitely has a toolbox feel to it, as does the sideboard. I can probably get away with swapping Thoughtsieze for IoK but other than that, any late suggestions that might be a good idea? I'm thinking the board will be -brownscale, + leyline and + another bontu or deluge.
Quick results.
R1 vs burn. W 2-1
R2 vs Red Prison, L 1-2
R3 vs Snow Aluren combo W 2-1.
Final 2-1.
Took 3rd on breakers in an 8 person weekly.
Decks represented: Maverick, Pox, RUG Dreadhorde arcanist (with shardless), BUG snow Aluren, burn, I think a jund deck, I think a lands deck, and not sure on the last one.
R1 burn g1 vs Ward, on the draw
he takes early fetch damage, drops a Taylor swiftspear and starts doing burn things. I eventually small pox it away taking advantage of raven's crime and a decently high land count to buy a few extra turns. He gets me down to 10 and i was able to summon the Marit Lage. He could get me down to 1 i think. Just barely got by.
R1 G2 he's on the play, He gets his swiftspear in play again and again it gets dealt with shortly thereafter. I try to assemble the combo but he wastelands at the appropriate time. He only takes fetch damage and bolts me for the win.
R1 G3 he starts off with a soul scar mage and i small pox that away and follow up with factory beats for a bit. He eventually gets me down to 3 life and i'm swinging in with factory and he hast a wasteland up. I keep stage and mana up to copy in response should I need to. He blanks on his draws i think 3-4 turns in a row somehow which is enough for the factory to finish him off.
R2 g1 vs red prison.
He starts off with chalice on 1, i follow up with a factory. He comes back with a chalice on 2 whit some sol lands. I get a lili going and start ticking up and discarding a spirit to get that clock going. I get lili up to 7 (wanted to ult and keep her) but he lands a rabblemaster and comes back at lili with the token. So I ult her and split his chalices (I had small pox and 2 crop rotations, so either would have been fine to regain the game). He kept chalice on 1, so I small poxed away the rest of his guys and then go in with the spirit. He tries to bridge him off but it doesn't work as he doesn't fine lands and his hand gets too big.
R2g2, t1 chalice on 1, t2 blood moon. I dig and dig for basics and i don't really find what i need (abrupt decay). Was hunted by a couple of SSgs that I was eventually able to dispatch, but Chandra kills me after.
R2 g3, we start off and he t0 double leyline. I hymn him and get some good stuff, but he has a Chandra again and i can't do much to interact with that (or the moon) and i just die 2 points at a time.
R3, g1 vs aluren. Didn't take many notes so going off memory.
I start off with Iok then a hymn and do lots of pox things. I am able to get in with factory and/or double factory (thanks to stage) all the way down to 5, then he pulled off the combo. I had a pretty big misplay, as i had threshold, mana, and a cabal pit in play that MIGHT have been able to disrupt the combo. He was at 5, then took himself down to 1 with beast activations and I think i have the timing window to -2/-2 a key part. Maybe not. It wound up not mattering in the end but he gets me there.
R3g2 I get quick disruption again and drop a lili that he lets resolve. After a few upticks and getting a few lands blown up he concedes to the lili lock. I think i had my loam in the yard to boot, but i can't recall.
R3g3 we slug it out for the "win and in" for top 4. I wish i had better notes because there was a lot of back and forth in this game. Lots of disruption followed by his drawing to try and dig out of it. I have crop rotation, lili, and a few other spells in hand when he drops a spyglass. Naturally he names lili (he had not seen the depth's package yet, but had suspected it). Unfortunately for him my next card off the top is stage so i drop it and clear the coast for the rotation into depths. I get it and the creature comes out. He manages to get his aluren but no combo. He drops a 2 coatls, a clique and i think another flyer in the process of his digging really worrying me he'd find his combo. Once again i forget that i have cabal pit to take care of the surprise blocker, so after 3 of these getting flashed in i wise up and crop rotate for it and take care of him. This was a real fun match up and a real fun game.
Also, props to the neoform player for giving me a jump as my truck battery or alternator decided to crap out. Some misplays today but overall had fun. Got some props on the deck which is always nice and the people were good too and as always, got to play new decks i hadn't played against before. Legacy is awesome!
edit: fixed spelling/grammar errors.
This card seems like it could be alright in pox:
http://mythicspoiler.com/ted/cards/castlelocthwainp.jpg
Yup, that land is definitely solid
Almost certainly better than the Mikokoro some people have been using in the past (and also better than Geier Reach Sanitarium unless you are trying to combo it with Chains of Mephistopheles)
For those wanting to get on the prison pox build, voids are coming down in price quite a bit. SCG has had them on sale a while and recently dropped prices again (comparable to ebay sold listings, but likely in better condition and much better reliability). Not sure why the HP ones aren't discounted but whatever.
https://www.starcitygames.com/result...er+Void&auto=Y
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...&LH_Complete=1
(I don't work for them or anything, just spreading news for anyone on the hunt for them).
Given how successful Blood Moon is right now in this meta, is it time to play Contamination? Beats RUG, beats 4c, beats Depths, etc... Scroll of Fate really supports the lock.
//Lands: 25
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Nurturing Peatland
1 Cabal Pit
3 City of Traitors
8 Swamp
//Spells: 19
4 Dark Ritual
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
1 Toxic Deluge
//Creatures: 4
4 Bloodghast
//Enchantments and Artifacts: 8
3 Contamination
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Scroll of Fate
//Planeswalkers: 4
4 Liliana of the Veil