[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

So I'm pretty sure I'm going to an event this weekend. Here's my list:


4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe

4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug

4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid

4 Bridge from Below

4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Dread Return

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Tarnished Citadel

3 Firestorm
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Nature's Claim


No idea what the metagame will be like. I'm assuming a little bit on the immature side since the more serious communities are out of town and meet up more consistently. Plus, I'm going to a pretty new store.

I'm going to play Dredge too, this sunday. The only thing is that i have 4 empty slots in my sb, and I don't own any Firestorms. I was thinking of 4x Chalice for Tes MU (wich is bad to my experience, around 60-40 for them) and the random Affinity MU.

My list looks like:

4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe

4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug

4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid

1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Sphinx of lost truths

4 Bridge from Below

4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Tarnished Citadel


4 Chain of Vapor
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Iona, shield of Emeria
1 Anchestor's chosen
1 Ray of revelation
4 Empty slots...

Also, what are the real advantages of NOT running Sphinx maindeck? It enables turn 2 win, and if you don't menage by winning so fast, it's a random ''oops i win'' DR target. I suppose it's useful only if run with FKZ main, though.

EDIT: I won several games by dumping all my cards with a Breakthrough turn 1. I know this is not a great play, but when I see hands like: City, Breakthrough, Ichorid, Ichorid, GGT, Stinkweed, Thug, the chance to throw the whole hand in the yard and starting dredging for 6 AND beating for 6 turn 2 is sexy :). I usually do this only G1 (very rarely).

Kiblast: if you have null rods, they could easily be ran as a 4 of in your sb. True they are slower against combo, but are decent against affinity.. They also shut down the most popular hate cards (crypt, relic). I have used them with some success before. Getting to two mana can be tricky sometimes, but if you happen to land rod, it is unexpected most of the time and can seal you wins with a useless crypt/relic on the field. I am an advocate of wispmare as well. I run natures claim over chain of vapor since I would rather nuke a problem instead of having it come back later, but that is a metagame choice.

@kiblast

I think running Chalice in your free slots is acceptable if there are lots of combo running around in your meta. Also, having FKZ and Sphinx in your MB helps too. I probably would not suggest running Null Rod because of the 2cc, like what Joe_C said, especially with only 14 lands. I might be a bit biased towards Chalice because both cards requires them to be in your hand, but Chalice@0 is free so it doesn't slow down your progression (such as casting discard outlet or cabal therapy, etc).

By combo decks, you guys are talking about storm based combos? If so Root Maze does the job just fine, though I still prefer Unmask as it's useful on other matches as well.

German Ichorid mastermind Dennis Rosinksi and his not lesser masterminded Ichorid playing friends have developed a new list, due to new cards been printed and stuff. In short its +1 darkblast MD and -1 terastodon, +1 ray of revelation , though the latter part is rather a critical change imo.
Dennis and a fellow Ichorid player Julian Hecker(very skilled player) have placed 4th and 1st in a rather big Tournament in Dülmen with this lists:

http://www.trader-online.de/turniere...10-12-T15.html


As for my testing, I love the changes.

I recently ran fairly typical non-LED build in a tourney without success. One of the biggest issues I had was to mulligan or not. Can anyone give insight into this? I always thought the rule for Dredge was 'one land, one outlet, one dredger' - is this still the case?

I think at times I was tempted by hands (tribe, pimp, 2 x breakthrough, 2 x troll) that needed 'one piece' and would have been awesome. At what point do you keep them and hope to mise (in this case, a land)? Or will you mull down to three cards just to get land, discard, dredger?

For the record I kept a few of those 'so-close' hands (usually on a 5-card or 6-card grip; I will always mull a 7-card hand without all three), only to never get what I needed and die horribly.

Also would you keep an opening hand like this: Tribe, Gemstone, Troll, Thug, Narc x 2, Ichorid. I will often have a decent hand except the fact it has Narcomoebas and I'm torn whether to keep it or not. Often I will, and hit no bridges/narcs and not have enough guys to be threatening.

Any tips appreciated guys.

Which list did you use?
Also, hands with moebas are not that bad if you have a thug and can actually hardcast it.the thug, that is.
In this case though, I would have mulled.

how about running dakmor salvage, undiscivered paradise and bloodghast?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honestabe

how about running dakmor salvage, undiscivered paradise and bloodghast?

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The general consensus is that this is just not good enough. Dakmor Salvage is nothing but a bad joke. Dredges even less then Darkblast, has almost no uses , cames into play tapped and can't even make blue mana.The only reason for running this would be Bloodghast.
Undiscovered Paradise, given that it is better than Salvage, is still worse than all the other Rainbow lands we use. Not beeing able to pay for daze or not beeing able to hardcast Narcamoeba in time or even worse, not beeing able to resolve a Golgari Thug in time to do some unbelievable tricks with it, is kind of frustrating. Again the only reason for us to run this over, let's say Tarnished Citadel is again Bloodghast.

Let us look at Bloodghast itself:

2/1 Body, Landfall, no haste.

Yes right, I said NO HASTE. The haste thingy on Bloodghast is kinda cute, but if the Opponent is on 10 life, he is dead already. I mean come on, at the point where we dealt 10 damage to an opponent we should have an army on the board.

The Landfall aspect is more interesting. It allows for insane tricks with Dread Return, but as we all know, Consistency is important! For that matter most of the Dredge players worldwide don't even have DR targets in the deck, which makes Bloodghast's Landfall ability useless.

2/1 is a whooping 1 Strength smaller than Ichorid, which by the way has haste ALL the time and comes back every turn WITHOUT dazing yourself. Which makes him better in my world.

Bloodghast is a funny lil twist to Ichorid, but it is just not good. Not even close. Funny, yes.Good, no. You can't even run Bloodghasts alongside Ichorids to speed up the beat down plan, because a proper Ichorid deck has almost no room for MD changes.

I could use some input on my list (Should I cut anything). I'm running MB Iona and the sphinx, zealot dredge your deck combo. This gives me two Dread return ways to win depending on the type of deck I'm playing. Mono colored turn 2 Iona wins the game, Multicolored I can go with the standard get a lot of guys and bring back flame kin zealot. My main question is if I'm running 3 dread return targets should I increase the amount of dread returns in my deck from 2-3? I either get iona or sphinx into zealot and ideally never really want to dread return all 3 in one game.

Tireless tribe x4
Putrid Imp x4
Narcomeba x4
Ichorid x3
Golgari grave troll x4
Stinkweed imp x4
Golgari Thug x3
Flamke-kin zealot x1
Sphinx of lost truths x1
Iona x1

Bridge from below x4
Cabal Therapy x4
Breakthrough x4
Careful study x3
Dread return x2

City of Brass x4
Gem stone mine x4
Cephalid Coliseum x4
Tarnished citadel x2

My first reaction would be to cut all the DR targets (except GGT of course)

But as I think you want to stick with the DR targets, I would consider cutting 1 of the two zealots and adding one careful study.

But even if you like to stick with the 3 targets, I don't think a third DR is needed.

I didnt even notice that. The second one is supposed to be an Iona.

Seriously thoug, why do you need DR targets...? >.< 12/12 GGT turn 2 wins as many games as Iona t2.

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast

4 Tireless Tribe
4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough

4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Tarnished Citadel

Consistency ftw.Great list.

I personally like finding DR targets other than grave troll just because it't not an auto win. against decks like goblins and storm and decks that can outpace you a big guy that can get chumped isn't as good as a ton of 3/2 zombies or an iona that can keep your opponent from playing anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silent1391

I personally like finding DR targets other than grave troll just because it't not an auto win. against decks like goblins and storm and decks that can outpace you a big guy that can get chumped isn't as good as a ton of 3/2 zombies or an iona that can keep your opponent from playing anything.

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The thing is I don't know a single deck other than storm combo that can outrace a 12/12 GGT plus 1-3 3/1 hasters plus at least 6 2/2 zombies on turn 2.

Iona isn't going to change this, FKZ is a mere turn quicker, as I said above, that is not nescassary(tired, how do you write this word?) Even if GGT gets chumped, theres still 12-x power on the field. What I am saying is: you can usually go off turn 2-3 and on turn 2-3 GGT beats Iona because you win anyway. later turns are not supposed to happen and if they happen, well Iona might help.Might. But with more consistency those games that last long wont happen often.
With Ichorid, the only cards that really matter are those in the opening hand. Later, you won't draw any cards. DR Targets increase the chance that you have to mull youre opening seven to a degree that is not even funny.

Iona is just win more.As is FKZ. You might win because of them, yeah thats definately true. But you will lose more games because of low consistency.

You don't always find your single Dread Return target when you need it. If you can dredge deep enough to reliably find Iona against Goblins, you've Dredged deep enough to make a 15/15 Troll.

Why are people running the singleton darkblast? From Anusien's list above I run -1 darkblast, -1 breakthrough, +2 thug. I find 12 dredgers and the larger amount of creatures to feed ichorid are the most consistent.