Again,
1) it was sarcastic and not actual numbers
2) I said "the probability to get one on the field" not to see one in hand.
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Again,
1) it was sarcastic and not actual numbers
2) I said "the probability to get one on the field" not to see one in hand.
Holy Zombie Jesus, move on already.
To shore this poo-storm o stupidity up and to get the thread back to 'on-topic', let me explain what happened. Poron trolled stats like a gallon of milk on the floor and newcomer BlackNapkins bit. Hook, line, and sinker.
/thread-fixer
Movin on, I think that since Punishing Fires is a compact combo that is only 1/2 on-color with the tertiary and arguably most disposable color of the 3, and the addition of green is unimaginably irrelevant to the list as well, not to mention its inability to be tutored for in any way in this particular archetype, should it be anything more to this thread than a passing mention and maybe a brief mention of it in the opening post describing it as a possibe inclusion and what it is good against for those interested? I say no.
I have been looking for a sleek U/W Miracle list for a while with little luck. Can someone point me in the right direction?
-ABC
Just wanted to comment on my first ever legacy tournament that I played.
Don't have a copy of my exact decklist but I was running RIP/Helm with maindeck Blood Moon and Energy Field. We have 20 players with the top 4 getting stuff like Dual Land or Force of Will as prizes.
Round 1 - Lands. Lol, was nice to have an easy first round match up. I had Blood Moon in my opener both games and he could do nothing about it.
Round 2 - Elves. Was able to counter his Natural Order twice, before sweeping the board and taking over the game. Game 2 he dumped his hand and I put a Terminus on top of my library to blow him out. It is at this point I start to get a bad migraine :(
Round 3 - BUG. These games were a little more interactive than the previous 2 rounds but game 1 was reasonably under my control. Game 2, He is beating me down with a Thrun while I stare at my useless Swords. I make the stupid mistake of not blocking with my Meddling Mage (naming Abrupt Decay) and go to 1. I top and find an Entreat and realise this will win me the game. Draw my Entreat and realise I only have 1 white source, crack my fetch forgetting I am on 1 and die. Not sure if this was me being too excited about drawing Entreat or if having a migraine put me off. Still, I doubt I will be making that mistake again. Game 3 he ultimates Liliana and I still have him under Counterbalance/Top. I keep trying to dig my way out of it but the second Liliana ulitmate finishes me off.
So far the deck has been performing well and feels strong and I am still in good shape to make top 8.
Round 4 - Mono White. Feel like this should have been a good match for me but both games he had me under Karakas/Mangara of Corondor and I was unable to find a Terminus or my own Karakas.
Round 5 - RUG Threshold. Can still win and make top 8, but found out this seems to be a horrible match. Maybe my opponent just drew well both games but it felt like there was literally nothing I could do. My fetch's all got Stifled, my duals wastelanded, terminus countered and Sword being usless against Mongoose.
Did not want to stick around after the tournament as my migraine was getting worse, so I went home.
Other than being in pain and making a terrible mistake that cost me top 8, I really enjoyed playing Legacy and this deck
Any advice for the Threshold match? I was not running Supreme Verdict in my list, so thinking I will add that, but not sure that will be enough.
Your assessment of your opponent is a bit off.Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_gazz
Mono white is actually called Death and Taxes, it's not a good match up, it's 50-50. He has 4 Karakas, doesn't matter if you find your own or not. He also has Rishadan port.
The RUG Threshold is more commonly known as RUG Delver, Threshold is the older term from Canandian Threshold. Basically, you have to assume he is holding Daze, because it's never good if he Daze any spells you play. You pretty much have to take early beats, don't break fetchlands until you are ready to fight stifle and wasteland, try to stick Rest in Peace in intelligently asap. A card that can hose Delver + Death and Taxes is Teferi's Response.
The bottom line at this point is still Graveyard hate.
If you follow SCG Open or your LGS legacy event, DRS is everywhere, every non show and tell variants has it.
Maverick - DRS
Stoneblade - DRS
BUG - DRS
Jund - DRS
If you are Not running Rest in Peace, are you utilizing graveyard in some ways? It comes down to PFire and/or Snapcaster. None is really not an option.
nice try trolling from 'Nilla Pac
I am addressing all the Miracle players when I write you, you as in you all Miracle players, in case you have not heard of this word context. Look at the entire paragraph, it's not addressing to magic_gazz. The paragraph starts out as: If you follow SCG Open or your LGS legacy event.
My comments toward magic_gazz ended when the paragraph ended, in case 'Nilla Pac missed his English class.
Aether Vial can be a problem in this MU. If you keep Vial out of the picture, Counterbalance is actually pretty good against them. They don't generally run Caverns due to Ports. Watch out for SFM and Mangara. Those are really the only two cards they have that let them pressure you without overextending.Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_gazz
I really consider RUG one of the easier MU's for us, especially the RIP version. The key is almost entirely about mana development. Keep hands with a lot of mana or else ways to fight through Stifle (REB/FoW/Pierce). There is no need to pull the trigger early. If you can, always wait an extra turn to play around Daze or two to play around Spell Pierce. Almost every one of your spells is game ending for RUG, just be patient.Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_gazz
Oblivion Stone / desperate FoWs / Spell Snare on Vial
and as many Blood Moon as possible.
Eventually Pyroclasm and Terminus seal the deal.
Thalia's White weenie is rather easy actually. And I feel Counterbalance not very needed
The decks that really hurt me are: Planeswalker based decks, Abrupt Decay based decks, and Show and Tell ones.
Apart from these, I rarely find myself in troubles..
How do you exactly Spell Snare on Vial?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Death and Taxes runs full Wasteland and full Port, do you have any ideas on the difficulty level of tricking DnT player such that you can actually use Red Mana while bypassing Thalia to play a Red sorcery that might cost 3?
Even if you did play Pyroclasm, DnT can always bounce Thalia using Karakas and Mother of Rune on something else, not to mention Pyroclasm does nothing against Serra Avenger.
Seriously, are you intentionally trying to mislead Miracle players? Do some homework before you post something like "XYZ is rather easy actually"
Spell Pierce, come on.
4 Swords 4 Terminus 2 Pyroclasm and you find yourself in troubles with weenies creatures? you can even play Sulfur Elemental in that matchup
if Thalia is all that problem, you wait his single Karakas (one each time) to be tapped, than play StP.
Honestly, may be it's my list that is very anti-creature driven but I don't feel Esper Blade, Death Blade, Rug and all those similar to be negative (<50%) matchups.
But maybe I'm just overposting in this topic. Sorry
This theory from Poron hinges on playskill of both the miracles and the Maverick/DnT players imo.
Against Wasteland decks like RUG where I'll want Red spells (REB), I'll just hold up a fetchland until the second that I need :r: before cracking it. I imagine that it's the same against Death and Taxes. Just don't crack for a Volcanic before you actually mean to cast Pyroclasm. Also, Poron mentioned Blood Moon which not only makes casting Pyroclasm easy but shuts down all of their mana denial and cute Karakas tricks. Like sauce said though, a lot of it will probably come down to who can plan it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
which goes back to what I was saying: 50-50, NOT "XYZ is rather easy actually" assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
If one has a dying urge to make a comment like "XYZ is rather easy actually," one has to learn the difference between Spell Pierce and Spell Snare, the difference between 2% and 25% first.
I don't think controlling the stack w/ spells is a viable strategy vs RUG, I just take out all my counterspells vs them and focus onQuote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
1. not dying
2. setting up counterbalance (by playing around daze/pierce)
3. establishing manabase by fetching basics and playing around stifle when possible.
They have too many taxing counterspells, stifles and wastleands for you to reliably expect that Red blast will resolve.
I posted a tournament report here finishing 17th at SCG Philly with a more traditional Miracles list feel free to check it out, I'm always looking for feedback on deck design decisions and sideboarding. I started out 5-0 but unfortunately couldn't close it out for a shot at top 8.
play bad, keep bad hands, get rewarded. UWr punishing miracles vs Dredge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBG_rHvdJJI
On the RUG Match-Up.
Your trumps in this Match-Up are, obviously, RIP and Counterbalance. CC2-Enchantments. What is your plan if you take out all your counterspell? Wait until you can play them Pierceproof only to get them Blasted/FoWed? Taking out your counterspells is just wrong. You should take out Force of Will, that's right - and probably shave Counterspell, but you probably still want 1. But, and this is most important you want to maximize on CC1 Counters, namely Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm. And don't you come with the "They are dead later" argument - our goal is it, to reach this "later", ya know? Flusterstorm is pretty much the best counter vs RUG. Play a RIP T3, Fluster their Snare, they can't daze it, they can't force it and they can't REB it. It all comes down to setting up. Sometimes it is correct to sweep, sweep, remove, remove and then cast a cc2-Enchantment - but if I played some numbers of Pierces/Flusters it might be correct doing it the way I tend to do it. Focus on your enchantment first - kill the guys after - BUT this is not always true and depends largely on the hand you open and the boardstate + how much manadenial they have. Oh, and we have REB too - vs RUG-decks I always tried to play probably as much red spells postboard as I played sources. So 2-3 red spells when I got 2 Volcanics.
Greetings
Against RUG, you want to use the first four turns as mana development. Don't actually DO anything. That's the best way I've found to beat them. Once you turn off all their Dazes and such, then nuke them out of the water with removal, RIP, CB, etc.
-Matt
lol anyway
1) I said the probability to get one on the field, not to see one in hand. How can this not mean? O_O
2) I'm not english and just got wrong in translating Spell Pierce with Spell Snare (mistake due to their closeness in english)
I must say that, overall the second "mistake" was rather obvious to anyone who has a friendly and open attitude...
Sorry but, can you tell us some matchups where you're > 55%?Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
because I can only hear complaints about every matchup from you. Esper, RUG, Thalia.
Just anything. If your average "matchup goodness" ratio isn't over 55-60%, why are you playing this deck?
Just so you know this won't really work against anyone who is aware of how the stack works. If you play RIP, they Snare and you cast Flusterstorm they can just allow all of the copies of Flusterstorm to resolve and then with RIP still on the stack cast Daze, Force, Stifle etc. The only example you gave which is true is REB since they can't target RIP or profitably use it against Flusterstorm.Quote:
Flusterstorm is pretty much the best counter vs RUG. Play a RIP T3, Fluster their Snare, they can't daze it, they can't force it and they can't REB it. It all comes down to setting up.