[DTB] Blade Control

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Originally Posted by Purgatory

What about Riptide Laboratory? Sure, you trimmed a land from the latest list so it might be tough to find something to cut for it, but it seems good on paper (even better than in Qweerios list, since it can act as protection from removal for Grim Lavamancer as well, so they have to 2-for-1 themselves to get him off the table permanently).

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Yeah, in my most recent list, I trimmed down to 22 lands and went down to the minimal basic lands package of 2 island, 1 plains, 1 mountain.

I don't have any problems per se with Riptide Lab, but that's another colorless land and I think Academy Ruins is more important for us to get back our dead equipment (which is our only real "big creature" finisher) and to recur EE.

I think it's fine as a 23rd land although as protection for Grim, it probably won't work as well as we hope since Grim is most effectively played out early (and thus we won't likely have mana / lab to protect it). Even without using it to protect Grim Lavamancer, it's still fine to recur SCM and Cliques though.

Again, these are all my personal preferences and experiences, so take what I say with a grain of salt. More people playing the deck and more people testing out different things is how it'll advance :)

Riptide Laboratory allows you to take over a game with a single Snapcaster Mage when you hit topdeck mode. 1 Snapcaster gave me 3 flashbacks in the game that I won vs. Shardless BUG. I think that if you choose to avoid Wasteland in favor of color consistency, which is probably the right decision IMO, having that extra utility from your lands is more of a boon than a drawback.

Speaking of Shardless BUG, I was thinking about effective cards to combat that specific matchup. Blood Moon is definitely a game-ender and Grim Lavamancer definitely helps smooth things out. Also, I believe there is a lot of value to be had from a card like Redirect. It can redirect Hymn, AV, FoW, Decay, and Thoughtseize as early as turn 2. Unlike misdirection, it won't put you on parity with your opponent for cards as it will usually be a 2 (decay, TS, FoW), 3 (Hymn), or 4 (AV) for 1 effect and you can realistically flash it back for additional value.

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

Riptide Laboratory allows you to take over a game with a single Snapcaster Mage when you hit topdeck mode. 1 Snapcaster gave me 3 flashbacks in the game that I won vs. Shardless BUG. I think that if you choose to avoid Wasteland in favor of color consistency, which is probably the right decision IMO, having that extra utility from your lands is more of a boon than a drawback.

Speaking of Shardless BUG, I was thinking about effective cards to combat that specific matchup. Blood Moon is definitely a game-ender and Grim Lavamancer definitely helps smooth things out. Also, I believe there is a lot of value to be had from a card like Redirect. It can redirect Hymn, AV, FoW, Decay, and Thoughtseize as early as turn 2. Unlike misdirection, it won't put you on parity with your opponent for cards as it will usually be a 2 (decay, TS, FoW), 3 (Hymn), or 4 (AV) for 1 effect and you can realistically flash it back for additional value.

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With your list not playing Grim Lavamancers, I can definitely see playing the Riptide Lab over the Academy Ruins since you're not going to be eating as many of your own spells out of your yard and you need to leverage SCM more. I've experienced issues when the Batterskull / Jitte gets killed, which is why I've been preferring Academy Ruins.

Instead of Redirect, have you tried Divert if Abrupt Decay / Hymn are an issue for you? It won't stop an Ancestral unless they tap out and cascade into it, but it's a pretty big blowout if it ever works.

As you mentioned, Blood Moon is strong - SFM -> Batterskull is still problematic for them to deal with. By its very nature, Shardless BUG is designed to have a decent matchup against everything, so it's hard to find a single card that absolutely hoses them.

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

With your list not playing Grim Lavamancers, I can definitely see playing the Riptide Lab over the Academy Ruins since you're not going to be eating as many of your own spells out of your yard and you need to leverage SCM more. I've experienced issues when the Batterskull / Jitte gets killed, which is why I've been preferring Academy Ruins.

Instead of Redirect, have you tried Divert if Abrupt Decay / Hymn are an issue for you? It won't stop an Ancestral unless they tap out and cascade into it, but it's a pretty big blowout if it ever works.

As you mentioned, Blood Moon is strong - SFM -> Batterskull is still problematic for them to deal with. By its very nature, Shardless BUG is designed to have a decent matchup against everything, so it's hard to find a single card that absolutely hoses them.

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I am currently trying out 2 Grims as a replacement for 2 Bolts. When I mentioned playing Lab for value, I wasn't comparing it to Ruins, I think you should play both if you can. It offers you a different angle of value and will make your opponent think twice before Wasting your Duals. It is one of those cards where the benefits far outweighs the costs. Between Karakas, Ruins, and Lab, if my opponent chooses to Wasteland my colored sources and I happen to survive the onslaught, he will surely regret his past decisions. I think this argument goes back to what I said earlier about different versions of Blade Control decks choosing different color commitments. With all the quick and accessible disruption that a red commitment grants, you need some form of attrition engine to pull you through in topdeck situations after you managed to slow the pace of the game down.

I don't think Divert is a suitable replacement for Redirect, let along Misdirection. We don't play the tempo game very well and we are ultimately a midrange control deck. Divert vs. Misdirection is still subject to debate even in a shell containing Stifle and Wasteland. I wouldn't even touch Divert in a deck without Wasteland. Ultimately, it is the redirection effect I am after and I want to be able to use it against as many spells as I can, and have the most virtual access to it as I can. Suspended Visions are a big deal because we put so little pressure early on, and a T1 or T2 AV will resolve and your opponent will have a couple of turns to convert those extra cards into a board position because we ultimately play the same game: we both aim for midgame card advantage and control over the board.

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

I am currently trying out 2 Grims as a replacement for 2 Bolts. When I mentioned playing Lab for value, I wasn't comparing it to Ruins, I think you should play both if you can. It offers you a different angle of value and will make your opponent think twice before Wasting your Duals. It is one of those cards where the benefits far outweighs the costs. Between Karakas, Ruins, and Lab, if my opponent chooses to Wasteland my colored sources and I happen to survive the onslaught, he will surely regret his past decisions. I think this argument goes back to what I said earlier about different versions of Blade Control decks choosing different color commitments. With all the quick and accessible disruption that a red commitment grants, you need some form of attrition engine to pull you through in topdeck situations after you managed to slow the pace of the game down.

I don't think Divert is a suitable replacement for Redirect, let along Misdirection. We don't play the tempo game very well and we are ultimately a midrange control deck. Divert vs. Misdirection is still subject to debate even in a shell containing Stifle and Wasteland. I wouldn't even touch Divert in a deck without Wasteland. Ultimately, it is the redirection effect I am after and I want to be able to use it against as many spells as I can, and have the most virtual access to it as I can. Suspended Visions are a big deal because we put so little pressure early on, and a T1 or T2 AV will resolve and your opponent will have a couple of turns to convert those extra cards into a board position because we ultimately play the same game: we both aim for midgame card advantage and control over the board.

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Regarding Redirect - I just think it's too narrow for what it does. For example, the scary Hymns come on their T2. If they're on the play, Redirect is useless. Also, we typically tap out on t2 or tap down to 1 mana on t3 to play a SFM + 1 mana open for removal / Spell Pierce. For me, Divert isn't about tempo, it's about keeping from being disrupted in the early turns.

Really, Spell Pierce and REB should be fine for stopping a lot of the cards of Shardless BUG while still being useful in other matchups.

@Esper3k,

Playing Redirect as a 1-2of SB card has nothing to do with consistency. You don't use it to have it in your opener G2 and G3 or else it is virtually worthless. You use it to turn the game around, to gain an insurmountable edge, compare it to Notion Thief if you will. Of course there are cards that have broader applications, but it doesn't mean that they are the better choice. What I am suggesting here is a card specifically for Shardless BUG and Jund because they are both tier 1 decks that can overpower our "incremental gains" approach with their redundant power cards. What I am suggesting here is a way to exploit a flaw in their strength and all you need to get back in a game or completely bury your opponent for these matchups is simply to turn around an Hymn or take their AV for yourself. I think you are confusing the purpose of Redirect in that matchup because you only see it as an opener and immediately compare it to Divert. You can recover from an Hymn or fight through an AV while you manage the rest. However, you are likely to lose a game where you've taken multiple Hymns or let an AV slip through while you were keeping your opponent in check.

Why redirect over Swerve? Seems easier to cast than UU

I'd rather play something like Blood Moon then that just wrecks them than try and play something situational like Redirect. I'd say go ahead and give Redirect a try and see how it works out for you? I think in practice it's too narrow and too situational, but I could very well be proven wrong.

Also when you consider Redirect, you should really be comparing it to straight up Counterspell. Sure you won't get the awesome times when you get to Redirect a Hymn or AV, but you have to weight it against getting to stop Tarmogoyfs and Jaces with CS

Hmm, is it worth going to 61 cards just for the Riptide Lab? Common deck building strategy tells us to stay at 60, but it seems like such a good utility land.

Also thinking about dropping the Detention Sphere in my board for an Ethersworn Canonist, but I feel naked not having at least 1 trump to drop off of a Show & Tell.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Hmm, is it worth going to 61 cards just for the Riptide Lab? Common deck building strategy tells us to stay at 60, but it seems like such a good utility land.

Also thinking about dropping the Detention Sphere in my board for an Ethersworn Canonist, but I feel naked not having at least 1 trump to drop off of a Show & Tell.

Thoughts?

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Well, I hate going suboptimal. 60 is a definite for me; lab looks awesome at long games but also win more compared to ruins' ability to immediately throw you back into the game.

Canonist is still a trump since it turns your FoW into last word. Plus she inhibits their ability to sculpt a hand. Not to mention being great vs Storm, Burn and even cascade decks.

Minor note: you can still cascade off a Shardless Agent with a Canonist in play. Shardless Agent is an artifact.

How important is the one-of Envelop in the side? What about just cutting it in favor of the Canonist, so that the sideboard with ETutor becomes:


2 Meddling Mage
1 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Wear / Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Detention Sphere
1 Engineered Explosives


How important is the one-of Envelop, Esper3k? You didn't side it in once in the previous tournament report, for example, and the new cards in the Tutor package is tech in the matches where you did board it in in the previous one (RiP vs. Reanimator and Punishing Fire) aside from NO RUG.

It's possible that I may like Envelop too much, but it's a great card in general vs combo as well as vs control (stops AV, Hymns, Miracles). If I didn't put that I brought it in against High Tide, I must have forgot since it's great there too. It also synergies well with SCM too.

I'll concede that it's possible I'm too biased though, heh.

This list 4-0d a MTGO Daily today:

1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scalding Tarn
7 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Tundra
22 lands

4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
9 creatures

1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tithe
1 Umezawa's Jitte
29 other spells

Sideboard
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Detention Sphere
2 Disenchant
1 Dismember
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace Beleren
1 Mind Harness
1 Spell Pierce
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Tormod's Crypt

Its clearly much more controlling than most versions, and there are several unconventional choices; such as the Paths, Dismember, Revelation, and only 3 Stoneforge Mystics. What do you guys think about it?

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Originally Posted by The Treefolk Master

This list 4-0d a MTGO Daily today:

1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scalding Tarn
7 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Tundra
22 lands

4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
9 creatures

1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tithe
1 Umezawa's Jitte
29 other spells

Sideboard
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Detention Sphere
2 Disenchant
1 Dismember
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace Beleren
1 Mind Harness
1 Spell Pierce
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Tormod's Crypt

Its clearly much more controlling than most versions, and there are several unconventional choices; such as the Paths, Dismember, Revelation, and only 3 Stoneforge Mystics. What do you guys think about it?

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I stopped taking it seriously the second I saw 3 SFM.

Are the M14 rules changes in effect on MODO? Jace Beleren seems... not good...

Qweerios, thanks for bringing Riptide Laboratory back to my attention. It's a really interesting idea.

A few months ago, Drew Levin posted a BUGr Wizards brew in a SCG article: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=50112 (article: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ng-Advice.html )

I tested it for a while on Cockatrice, and Riptide Lab was awesome. It lets you re-use Snapcaster and Clique for card advantage, but you can also block goyfs or batterskull then bounce your wizards :)

I think it would be great in a Stoneblade shell, since the BUGr Wizards deck's 4-color manabase was a little greedy.

I also just read an article by Kevin McKee about Esper Wizardblade, which is another direction we can take this deck: http://mythicgameselmira.com/article/WSS.html

I frequently playtest with my roommate and whenever there is an attrition game being played, Riptide Lab gives my opponent a massive headache. I would say that Nic Fit is an unfavorable matchup for any Blade deck but I haven't lost a single game against it in testing simply because I could always grind out my opponent with a single lab. Nic Fit may not be a popular archetype but the same principle applies to Miracle. They try and keep the board clean and really lack land hate so a card like Karakas coupled with a clique or Lab with a Snap or Clique opens up a whole new can of worms for them.

Personally, this deck has given me the best results as of late compared to the usual (Delver and Jace decks). It scales beautifully throughout the course of the game and can takes on different roles depending on the matchup at hand. I've modified my successful list to reduce the amount of removal in favor of more control elements... So far, so good.


Creatures (12)
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (19)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Izzet Charm

Others (6)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives

Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Karakas
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Redirect
1 Izzet Charm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Blood Moon
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives


Here's the list I am considering for my next tournament. SCG's should occur in the near future as I should be getting my passport soon. Every slot is carefully considered and the SB is built with all the major archetypes in mind. Constructive criticism is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

I frequently playtest with my roommate and whenever there is an attrition game being played, Riptide Lab gives my opponent a massive headache. I would say that Nic Fit is an unfavorable matchup for any Blade deck but I haven't lost a single game against it in testing simply because I could always grind out my opponent with a single lab. Nic Fit may not be a popular archetype but the same principle applies to Miracle. They try and keep the board clean and really lack land hate so a card like Karakas coupled with a clique or Lab with a Snap or Clique opens up a whole new can of worms for them.

Personally, this deck has given me the best results as of late compared to the usual (Delver and Jace decks). It scales beautifully throughout the course of the game and can takes on different roles depending on the matchup at hand. I've modified my successful list to reduce the amount of removal in favor of more control elements... So far, so good.


Creatures (12)
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (19)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Izzet Charm

Others (6)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives

Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Karakas
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Redirect
1 Izzet Charm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Blood Moon
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives


Here's the list I am considering for my next tournament. SCG's should occur in the near future as I should be getting my passport soon. Every slot is carefully considered and the SB is built with all the major archetypes in mind. Constructive criticism is appreciated.

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I really like the look of this deck. I'll test it on Cockatrice, and try to get all the cards to play it for BoM Paris. I'm tired of RUG :)

Some considerations:
- Aren't SB Izzet Charm and Counterspell a little too "generic" for the SB? Don't you want cards that really hurt specific strategies instead?
- Have you considered 1 Enlightened Tutor in the SB and a few singletons (Ethersworn Canonist, Moat, Grafdigger's Cage...), like Jared Boettcher in the following article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...one-Blade.html ? It lets you double on your best SB cards, which is awesome.
- I think Rest in Peace is awesome in the current metagame, since there are a lot of GY strategies. Would a 1-of Rest in Peace be a good idea? Or is that too much of a nombo with Grim Lavamancer / Snapcaster Mage / Academy Ruins? Should we try to be less graveyard dependant, to more freely abuse RiP?
- I love the Redirect tech
- I might replace the Sulfur Elemental with an Izzet Staticaster. Sulfur Elemental is better against D&T and Maverick. But Staticaster also works against Elves, Goblins, Empty the Warrens and Young Pyromancer... You can protect it with Riptide Lab since it's a wizard.


Concerning the LightningBlade build in general... I wonder if I want to play a big red splash with main deck Grim Lavamancer / Lightning Bolt / Izzet Charm / Mountain / Volcanic Island / Plateau. Or if I just want to go for a small red splash with just 2 Volcanic Islands for SB Pyroblast / Blood Moon as well as E.E. on 3. The small splash is appealing, because you get to have a more stable UW manabase with more basics, which is good against mana denial decks, and you have access to more white mana, which lets you play Elspeth / Moat / Supreme Verdict.
That said, I love the added removal of Lightning Bolt and Lavamancer, so I don't know...

-Yes, Izzet Charm and Counterspell are generic spells. However, I have good reasons why they are both in the SB:

1) Counterspell is not as generic as it looks. Having a hard counter for 2 mana can be relevant against a lot of different decks but it truly shines against a dedicated control deck where 2 mana is considered cheap and a hard counter is a desired effect. I replaced my 2nd Pyroblast in favor of the singleton Counterspell when I included it in my SB.

2) Izzet Charm is there to tie up my loose ends for certain matchups. It is currently the flex slot in the SB because it is the least specific, and it's also the first one to go.

-Yes, I have considered an Enlightened Tutor SB. The reason why I opted against is for the same reason I chose not to play Rest in Peace. This deck is essentially a Snapcaster deck. Including a tutor board with various enchantments and artifacts as silver bullets doesn't reinforce my Snapcaster-centric strategy. I would rather have a wide selection of specific instants that I can re-use because I believe that it is a way to virtually expand your SB space to a larger extent than a ET board would, and at a lower cost as well.

-If you wish to abuse RiP more, I don't think this is the right deck to do so. RiP is one of the things I would FoW. Miracles can play RiP without remorse and plays more heavily into white as well, perhaps you could look into it a bit more. I play UWr Miracles from time to time and I would play it over anything remotely close to a UWr Stoneblade deck.

-Sulfur and Staticaster have similar purposes, however, I believe Sulfur is a better card on its own than Staticaster. If you look at them for their effect, they are both close in terms of impact. While Staticaster may appear to be a little more versatile, let's not forget how relevant a 3/2 uncounterable body can be. When the effect is no longer relevant to the board, so is Staticaster. I can close a game down with an Elemental, and that's where I draw the line.