[Deck] U/R Delver

Finally 'finished' my build of this deck over the holidays with the last Guru, here it is! I'm a sucker for the readability of new frames, so I went for the consistency of all new, taking advantage of the Eternal Masters reprints. Null Rod is my only holdout and forever will be with the Reserved List. Between the new frame and the English (again, for functionality), I'm sure some will hate, but I love it. No foils because the humidity in my house is a mess and I can't keep the cards unmarked. For the lands, since I needed old frame duals, might as well make all the fetchable lands look nice together!

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...psdk0yvnlq.jpg

Sweet! I really like the three different fbb Volcs. Personally, I'm a sucker for old borders, though.

PS: Is it possible to update the op? I'm no expert on the deck (on the contrary), otherwise I would do it myself. Anyone up to the task? Would gladly help, of course :smile:

I think we need a new one that includes a match-up guide and such, I mean, the old one is almost 6 years old

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Originally Posted by Chatto

PS: Is it possible to update the op? I'm no expert on the deck (on the contrary), otherwise I would do it myself. Anyone up to the task? Would gladly help, of course :smile:

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I have been playing this deck since February and since then have had a bunch of success with the deck in the Toronto area. I could definitely help with a matchup guide. I am not up to much as of late and I think I can offer some help.

@paradigm72, that's one SWEET looking deck you got there. Totally not jealous at all (Sarcasm!). I like your build, excluding Bedlam Reveler is a choice I have also made. Out of curiosity why did you exclude it? Also play Winter Orb in you sideboard, you will not be disappointed.

Hi guys!!
Recently in my community arrived too many eldrazi and other chalice decks((

I play spell snare instead gitaxian probe,fir try to have answer for

Chalice
Countrbalance
Jitte
Exhume

That are my nightmare.

Do you know some tech cards, that i can put maindeck against chalice directly in main deck?
But that is good in general

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Originally Posted by subzero

Hi guys!!
Recently in my community arrived too many eldrazi and other chalice decks((

I play spell snare instead gitaxian probe,fir try to have answer for

Chalice
Countrbalance
Jitte
Exhume

That are my nightmare.

Do you know some tech cards, that i can put maindeck against chalice directly in main deck?
But that is good in general

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How many Spell Snares are you running. You shouldn't be cutting below 3 Gitaxian Probe. You have to remember that this deck is trying to do one thing very well and a second thing not as well. This deck is trying to kill your opponent as fast as possible with ways to protect itself from broken combo (albeit not the best matchups still). I haven't experimented with Spell Snare but I feel that you wouldn't want more than 1, for risk of slowing your deck down and making it a little chunkier. Force or Daze on the play is enough to stop a Chalice.

If you are looking for a way to beat the Chalice decks Price of Progress is a great way to go. Chalice decks like Eldrazi, Aggro Loam/4C Loam whatever you call it, and Lands (Chalice post-board) all have very greedy manabases that get extremely punished by Price of Progress. I would recommend up to 3 Price of Progress in your deck.

As well remember that these decks also play Wasteland, so be sure to fire off Price of Progress quickly if they seem to know you are playing it. Don't get greedy with Price of Progress against these decks, Price for 4 is enough. You can also try to bait their Wastelands by fetching dual lands so that they don't have Wastelands to blow up their own lands when you cast Price of Progress.

In a chalice meta, and almost any meta you should be running no more, no less than 2 Smash to Smithereens. It answers Jitte, Chalice, Batterskull, AEther Vial, and is strangely decent against Shardless BUG (bringing 1 post-board).

Yeah, sometimes i try to have an answer to all...and i forget the primary way of deck..
Btw what do u think about
3x eidolon in main deck?
I saw some list with them, and i played them too for a while.

I have never played Eidolon in the deck before. In theory Eidolon could punish you for casting you cantrips and triggering prowess on Stormchaser Mage and Monastery Swiftspear, however it is great against combo, Storm especially and Reanimator to an extent. However I feel like this card has applications that are too narrow for the main deck. Despite this being an aggressive burn-like deck, it is not burn and is not as fast as burn.

Side Note: The reason why this card is so great in Burn is that all your spells do more damage to your opponent than the Eidolon does to you. And when your opponent casts spells they are getting punished for it by the Eidolon. U/R Delver wants to also be casting Gitaxian Probe, Ponder, and Brainstorm which don't do damage and can put you behind severely in a damage race.

I feel like Eidolon is a great card for the sideboard if you are looking to prepare yourself for combo along with other stuff like Flusterstorm and Surgical Extraction. Eidolon is also great to tip the Delver mirror in your favour as it helps you to pressure them more effectively.

What I am saying is that I don't think that Eidolon is great in the main but can be excellent in the sideboard.

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Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan

Out of curiosity why did you exclude [Bedlam Reveler]? Also play Winter Orb in you sideboard, you will not be disappointed.

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My feeling on Bedlam Reveler is that it's too clunky in the games I lose to decks like D+T, where mana is super tight. I'm not totally sure on it, I have tried it in the past. But I guess it's an opportunity cost thing - I like Grim Lavamancer and True-Name Nemesis a lot as they can beat certain fair decks all on their own, and I just can't find the slots for the Reveler. If I were playing against more Miracles, I think I would go up to 1x Reveler as he's great there.

I'm surprised to hear you say Winter Orb is great, I would have thought it punishes us too hard by restricting our ability to chain cantrips into bolts for prowess triggers on the critical turn. Do you find that just casting ~2 spells per turn is enough to get the kill still?

I like the idea of Eidolon of the Great Revel in the sideboard, may try that soon. I'm thinking it's good against: Miracles, Grixis Delver, Storm, Reanimator, Elves, Shardless? Not impactful enough against D+T, I think? Still, the list of good matchups is long enough it might be worth replacing something like Sulfuric Vortex.

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Originally Posted by paradigm72

I'm surprised to hear you say Winter Orb is great, I would have thought it punishes us too hard by restricting our ability to chain cantrips into bolts for prowess triggers on the critical turn. Do you find that just casting ~2 spells per turn is enough to get the kill still?

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Delver is a deck that can operate off of merely one land. As long as you have a threat in play Winter Orb against Miracles and Loam decks Winter Orb will be very tough to beat. Winter Orb lets us make it so that our opponent also has to play in a similar way too which some other decks just can't do.

Against Miracles Winter Orb is almost Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top as well because spinning top is Stone Raining yourself. Against Lands it almost shuts off the Grove+Punishing Fire engine (unless they have 2 Mox Diamonds) which incidentally makes them play into Price of Progress. It also hampers their Life from the Loams quite handily. The same can be said for Aggro Loam as for Lands.

Even if we have one Stormchaser Mage in play and a Winter Orb on the table casting one spell per turn can still be very effective. Lightning Bolt attack is 5 damage already. Next turn Chain Lightning attack and you've already dealt 10 damage and by this stage in the game your opponent should be dead if not close to dead. The thing with this deck's critical turns are that it only happens on really good draws. This deck is a tempo/aggro deck and not aggro/combo despite it's ability to cast 4-5 spells in one turn and kill the opponent with a massive attack.

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Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan

Delver is a deck that can operate off of merely one land.

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This so heavily depends on the list and if you already have a threat in play that it's nearly a useless assumption. XD

I have started on a new primer, but really could use some help. So far, I have taken the Goblin-primer as a example:

I. Introduction
a) History

Ever since the beginning of Legacy has known certain deckarchetypes, to fit player's favorate playstyle. Some players like to play Control, while others like to play Aggro or Combo. One such deckarchetype is Tempo.

Tempo refers to different aspect of the game, which loosly can be described as board presence: effective use of mana, cost effective beatsticks, life totals, and card advantage. In short, the player who knows how to use his or her resources to the fullest, and is able to dictate the tempo of the game is most likely to win.

While Tempo-strategies are not specific to a certain colour, it is mostly associated with Blue. It was with the release of Innistrad (2011), and one card in particulair that the Tempo-strategy became 'mature'. Delver of Secrets would change Legacy forever. One of the first decks 'modern Tempo decks' was RUG Delver, but other colours were also quickly to be explored.

b) Strategy
c) Why should I play U/R Delver?
II. Maindeck
a) Mana
b) The Core
c) Staples
d)
III. The Many Faces of U/R Delver
a) The Non-Reveler List
b) The Reveler List
c) The Control List
IV. Matchups & Strategy
a) Matchups
b) Sideboarding
V. Outside the Box
a) Already tested, bad cardchoices
b) To Be Tested Cards
c) Tested, Niche Potential
VI. Literature
a) U/R Delver Related
b) Legacy Related
c) General Magic Theory
VII. Log of changes

Anyone here who can help?

EDIT: this is just a rough sketch.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

I have started on a new primer, but really could use some help. So far, I have taken the Goblin-primer as a example:


II. Maindeck
a) Mana
b) The Core
c) Staples
d)
III. The Many Faces of U/R Delver
a) The Non-Reveler List
b) The Reveler List
c) The Control List
IV. Matchups & Strategy
a) Matchups
b) Sideboarding

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If you are looking for something to slot into section II. part d) I would recommend sideboards.

Any way what I have quoted you on is stuff I am willing to write about. Also, how should I submit my writing to you or someone who is going to post this as a whole?

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Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan

If you are looking for something to slot into section II. part d) I would recommend sideboards.

Any way what I have quoted you on is stuff I am willing to write about. Also, how should I submit my writing to you or someone who is going to post this as a whole?

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I've send you a PM.

I'm happy to write up some pieces too, or review if it would be helpful. Let me know if there's something with no owner.

For III.d., I think we should add the quad-Snapcaster/zero-Daze decks from Andrew Schneider and Jacob Kory as another variant, as they had some of the highest finishes the last few years:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13226&iddeck=97076
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19839&iddeck=151090

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Originally Posted by paradigm72

I'm happy to write up some pieces too, or review if it would be helpful. Let me know if there's something with no owner.

For III.d., I think we should add the quad-Snapcaster/zero-Daze decks from Andrew Schneider and Jacob Kory as another variant, as they had some of the highest finishes the last few years:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13226&iddeck=97076
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19839&iddeck=151090

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I'll send you a PM :smile:

Just wanted to say I've been testing this deck since I saw the GP Chiba lists, and I love it. I normally play ANT, but the meta at my store has gotten a little combo heavy and I want to mix it up for everyones sake. That being said, I have had terrible success in matches (jamming against Eldrazi and DnT I was something like 1-7 and 2-5 respectively, maindeck.) I assumed these would be good matchups, but perhaps I played them wrong. Really interested in developing the deck and hearing everyone's thoughts on the current Deck-to-Beat match ups.

After testing with a single bedlam reveler, I'm agreeing with the thread too. It rarely pulls me ahead from behind like I want it to when I can empty my hand, and more often I can't often my hand and It's essentially looting, rarely with satisfactory results. The body has rarely mattered, and I'd usually be better off with a cantrip that's easier to cast when it comes to it's effect. Just running another cantrip is easier on my mana too, especially facing a considerable amount of wastelands. It's close, but ultimately, it's just barely not efficient or impactful enough to be consistent in a deck that needs to be as sleek as U/R.

As far as Winter Orb is concerned, it's paid off more me more often than it hasn't to enough of a degree that I'm happy to run one. I've actually thought about cutting my SB blood moon for a second, because I've had a lot more success with it than blood moon against my bantblade/deathblade/esperblade heavy meta. Not having to worry as much about what I'm fetching and making it easier to play around wasteland when I'm tight on mana.

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Originally Posted by Oldsrocket_27

After testing with a single bedlam reveler, I'm agreeing with the thread too. It rarely pulls me ahead from behind like I want it to when I can empty my hand, and more often I can't often my hand and It's essentially looting, rarely with satisfactory results. The body has rarely mattered, and I'd usually be better off with a cantrip that's easier to cast when it comes to it's effect. Just running another cantrip is easier on my mana too, especially facing a considerable amount of wastelands. It's close, but ultimately, it's just barely not efficient or impactful enough to be consistent in a deck that needs to be as sleek as U/R.

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What creature base are you using? 4x each of Swiftspear, Delver, Stormchaser and 1x Reveler?

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Originally Posted by hoodwinked

What creature base are you using? 4x each of Swiftspear, Delver, Stormchaser and 1x Reveler?

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I'm still running 4 delver, 4 swiftspear, 3 chaser, 2 pyromancer, 1 reveler. I haven't been happy with pyromancers either, so they'll probably get cut as well.