[Deck] Solidarity

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Originally Posted by SupREME-10

If I do incorporate Snapcaster I think that it would something like this.

2 x Brain Freeze
3 x Snapcaster Mage
4 x Brainstorm
3 x Cunning Wish
1 x Flash of Insight
4 x Force of Will
3 x High Tide
4 x Impulse
3 x Meditate
3 x Opt
1 x Peek
4 x Reset
2 x Spell Pierce
2 x Peer Through Depths
2 x Turnabout
2 x Remand

12 x Island
1 x Flooded Strand
2 x Misty Rainforest
3 x Scalding Tarn

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Similar list I've arrived at, but not tested sufficiently (TA at recent events, as I can play it!).
-1 Counter
+1 FoI
+1 Opt
-1 Peek
-1 Peer TD

I find Tiago works as a Mechant Scroll / Demonic Tutor when going off, and in the worst case a chump blocker that cantrips. I've not been happy with 4; and 2 is a bit random, hesitating to play it in case I need it later. 3 seams right to me.

I have not however had any success with Snap; and find myself with the wrong cards at the wrong time, or forcing a Snap/Taigo combo, and passing on perhaps better options. The addition of +7-8 cards MD for the combo really impacts the deck core.

I think on balance Taigo adds to the deck.

Thanks for the feedback on my idea to incorperate Tiago. I havn't done enough play tests with the build yet either but I agree and disagree with your proposed alterations.

-1 Counter -- I have found that I do need the counters due to the controling match-ups in my area, and I was actually looking for a way to squeeze in another counter instead of removing one. I may also test out with 2 Snap maindeck in place of the 2 Spell Pierce, you never know if you don't try.. Thanks for the idea.

+1 FoI // -1 Peer TD -- I added Peer Through Depths (2) and removed a Flash Of Insight (1) earlier in the build and I have found that I actually like the balance of 4 Impulse, 2 PtD, and 1 FoI overall. It gives me 8 good chanced to dig with 7 of those being re-usable if Tiago is in hand (although High Tide, Reset, and Meditate would be the optimal play in most cases). I loved when my deck had 2 FoI, as I find the card is really really good at what it does, but I also found that it was a mana hog while in hand.

+1 Opt // -1 Peek -- I see a lot of decks (in here) that run the 4 Opt without Peek, and I see their strengths. I have been testing with Peek and so far it has given me some valuable info pre-combo so for now I will retain it; but as you noted, Opt is always a good option.

Thanks for that feed back and I hope to do more testing through this week, {with Tiago} so I should be able to give some more feedback later down the road.

Once again, I want to remind the philosophy of solidarity that is delay the game until squeeze is almost 0. Tiago as you call it is a great card but I see it as a full combo card. It serves as cantrip, yes, untap effect and chumblocker, but almost never as counter I guess. So, I am not sure if this "combo power" is enough to not squeeze. Maybe you can go off faster, but the question is if you do that consistently. GC

Tiago stalls as well; he can fog for a turn against midrange where they typically have one dude. I'd leap at the opportunity to trade with delver of secrets before he transforms. Tiago is a perfect fit in this deck although I don't believe an optimal decklist has been found with him in it this is the best card for solidarity in a long while.

I've found Tiago to be more than a cantrip; he cantrips for the card you need at that specific moment, not a blind draw off the top. If you can delay playing Tiago, you have an instant speed Merchant Scroll. I've not noticed Tiago speeding up the deck, and my trials with dedicated combo Snap/Tiago/Intuition were not what I want to be playing.

I agree with delaying the game. Flashing back Remand only happens once in a while, but nets a huge card and tempo advantage (disrupt their tempo).

Sorry to be a little out of date, but Tiago = Snapcaster right?

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Originally Posted by alastair

I've found Tiago to be more than a cantrip; he cantrips for the card you need at that specific moment, not a blind draw off the top. If you can delay playing Tiago, you have an instant speed Merchant Scroll. I've not noticed Tiago speeding up the deck, and my trials with dedicated combo Snap/Tiago/Intuition were not what I want to be playing.

I agree with delaying the game. Flashing back Remand only happens once in a while, but nets a huge card and tempo advantage (disrupt their tempo).

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Olesch

Sorry to be a little out of date, but Tiago = Snapcaster right?

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Yes.

I have been running my build with Tiago for some playtesting and I have noted one particular thing that just pisses me off game wise and goes back to why I was going Creatureless to begin with.

Yes Tiago gives you more chances to hit a second High Tide, or one more Reset, or Meditate; but -- and this is a big BUT.

He also now forces you to ensure that your opponent never gets anything like a Umezawa's Jitte working on their board and/or spot removal such as Swords to Plowshares in their hand -- as they will negate the effect of your Snap to rework him. Yes you can simply use him in the one off fashion that gets you one step closer; but you more often now need control cards to make sure that your successful.

I guess so far I have been finding that he makes the deck a little better if he is left alone or you have the combo pieces in hand, etc; but he also adds a new dimension to how you play the deck out.

Anyway, I think that I will continue with my playtests a little more before I decide to keep him or not as he certainly is nice when he does his job. And that is just food for thought as I would like to hear from others how they are finding his usage.

Thanks again for all the help so far.

I am not sure why you say that. Tiago has a triggered ability which goes to the stack. You opponent can sword your mage but the ability will finaly resolve. Off course you loose your chumpblocker but I dont know if that' s the point. Sorry if i' m wrong.

It's StP in response to Snap on Snapcaster that fizzles the combo chain. StP'ing in response to Snapcaster on a target doesn't do anything, but may potentially kill future uses of Snaps, but of course, the Solidarity player can just Snap the Snapcaster in response.

You just can't fight the StP in response to Snap on Snapcaster unless you have another Snap or Flusterstorm/FoW in hand.

As long as bouncing Snapcaster isn't an integral part of your combo, we can run him as a Twincast-eque card that does some things that Twincast can't, namely, play Brainfreeze out of your yard and include the storm trigger on the stack. Further, he doubles your High Tides, which is huge for Solidarity. Snapping him back to your hand is just that much better. I would say this would make Disrupt a better piece of disruption because then you can actually use it during your combo turn to protect your Snaps, and it cantrips.

EDIT:
Also, Disrupt is great for stopping Team America from playing stuff like Duress, Thoughtsieze, Sink Hole, Hymn, etc.

And Reanimator is DTB too. Stopping Exhume, Reanimate, etc. seems rather important if we even want to get to our combo turn.


I've mentioned this before (we live in a different metagame) but what do guys think of Divert. You can redirect Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole... most of Team Americas spells, as well as a burn spell from Zoo to a creature in play (if they don't see candelabras and sorceries, they obviously put you on Solidarity and will unload their burn on you). It might be good sideboard material for a metagame in which you have to deal with turn by turn disruption rather than countermagic.

Tiago is real good at getting a recast on high tide, Reset, and/or Meditate; but smart opponents are trying to break my chain as I cast Snap by removing Tiago and leaving me without a target for the Snap. No it is not an instant game losing break in the chain; and it can in fact help to get you that one more storm count, etc. But there are times when your relying on that Snap going off successfully, and that can hurt. Like I said, it is simply a different dimension to the game dynamics.

I have tried Disrupt and I do like it for the replacement factor; but adding 1 to mana cost is not that significant mid game or when your trying to go off. I will have to do more research in Divert (actually try it) before I make comment; but I do like the potential for having them Hymn themselves -- ha ha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SupREME-10

but smart opponents are trying to break my chain as I cast Snap by removing Tiago and leaving me without a target for the Snap.

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Don't run Snap. Problem solved.

I agree. the beauty of snapcaster is that he acts as a merchant scroll during combo, and at worse a fog before that.

He gets progressively worse when you treat him as a combo piece with snap.

Each are good cards by themselves. Put them together and they become clunky.

The thing with snapcaster pre comboing is that he would be played at earliest turn 3. When playing him turn 3, what would you target? An Opt? Of course you could target a brainstorm, but I always want to use the brainstorm most efficiently and by doing that I would like to have a fetch land in play to shuffle away unnecessary cards. Then that leaves me to play him at turn 4.

But as someone says, use him as a fog, yes but you want to make use of him with the ability as well.

Of course if the game goes further there are more posibilities pre comboing, but I don't like to have dependencies like that.

During comboing he is gold worth, I am aware of that. But I am still a little sceptic to him due to the pre comboing.

Played another small tournament yesterday and went 3rd in standings after 5 rounds of play. Top was split.

I wanted to try Disrupt in the mainboard and it worked like a charm. It saved me from Hymn to Tourach, Vindicate and countered opponent end-of-1st-turn Brainstorms.
In the worst case, it just cantripped.

Quick matchup:


R1 vs Stoneblade 0-2 lost
Overkill on counter and Stifle.

R2 vs Junk 2-0 won
Fine match. Gaddock Teeg in play in both matches. Game 2 was won without any resolved High Tide uptil digging through ~15 cards.

R3 vs Mono U Show/Tell homebrew with Emrakul 1-0-1 win
Weird decklist, had to judgecall since he started shuffling his library on the 3rd Emrakul trigger. Game loss was given.
Game 2 went into time. He boarded Defense Grid, I went for the combo in own turn but didn't manage to go lethal. Defense Grid basically was even worse for him than it was for me. Strange way of boarding when you're forced to win 2 more matches for points.

R4 vs Staxx 2-0 win
Plenty of time here to build combo. Slow clock with only Factories and Magus.
He didn't really play that well, kept his Smokestacks at 1 counter with Crucible in play, why? oO
He casts Chalice @ 1 on turn 4, me having Tide, Reset, Fetch, Disrupt.
Disrupt on my own Reset gave me Meditate. Meditate gave it all.
Game 2; Chalice 1 at turn 1. Trinishpere turn 2. Lots of turns later Chalice @ 2 which was my queue to eot Rebuild and go for the win.

R5 GW Maverick 2-1 win
Awful first round after mulligan to 5.
Game 2-3 he was so polite to scream during the tournament that he was playing Canonist and Thorn of Amethyst in his SB. A bit clunky but Rebuild did the job.

Congrats on 3rd place showing, I hope to do as well one day.

:smile:

Well after more play tests, I kind of have to agree with the tech to play Snapcaster without Snap maindeck at least. That way I use the Snapcaster for it's recursion to something; but don't have to worry about the opponent interacting with Snapcaster to mess up my Snap.

Anyway I also like the idea of Disrupt and have been trying that main deck as I have needed some counters and it's card draw is never a bad thing, hell I even use it vs myself and pay the 1 mana to allow the initial cast to go off, adding to the storm count and replacing the Disrupt in my hand.

So with that in mind, here is where my list is at. As always, comments, critiques, and suggestions are welcome.

Main Deck, and I know it is 61 (I roll that way - it is not going to change)

2 x Brain Freeze
4 x Brainstorm
3 x Cunning Wish
2 x Disrupt
1 x Flash of Insight
4 x Force of Will
3 x High Tide
4 x Impulse
3 x Meditate
3 x Opt
1 x Peek
2 x Remand
4 x Reset
3 x Snapcaster Mage
2 x Peer Through Depths
2 x Turnabout

2 x Flooded Strand
2 x Misty Rainforest
2 x Scalding Tarn
12 x Island

Sideboard

1 x Ravenous Trap
2 x Surgical Extraction
1 x Blue Sun's Zenith
1 x Chain of Vapor
1 x Snap
1 x Echoing Truth
1 x Flusterstorm
1 x Hibernation
1 x High Tide
1 x Meditate
1 x Mindbreak Trap
1 x Rebuild
1 x Brain Freeze
1 x Wipe Away

Thanks for all the help earlier, and the recent discussion between people has really helped so keep it going guys.

I have to add that I was pretty amazed by the power that Disrupt added to the deck.
I didn't expect it to be a hard counter in most cases. To be honest, Disrupt has never been this powerful before; each time it was right there when I needed it.

Runner up on MVP was Twincast as a maindeck singleton. His favourite target being Meditate.
Not really an essential card to the deck, this one is pretty much playstyle dependant. I really think it's a powerful card, but wouldn't run any more than 1.

@SuprEME-10
What are your most wished cards? I think wishing to a Tide is a bad play.
I'm not running Wish, though I used to play it in the past.

My most often Wished for card is High Tide actually; but here is why.

End of their turn 3+, I use a wish and due to the heavy control factor of my meta it generally sucks some control out of their hand. If not it lands me a High Tide as I generally have the combo inhand or plenty of draw at that point.

This allows me to double (or more due to snapcaster) high tide and really build the mana to run the cantrips as I go along in the opponents Upkeep phase. Since I have been running Snapcaster though, I have also wished into the SB Snap to re-use the Snapcaster; but only if I really have a handle on the opponents hand, as I hate to lose the target for the Snap and fudge things over. Flusterstrom is another good Wish once the combo is started if the opponent tries to break the chain mid stream or later in. At least it forces them to use their control early or die, or at least that is how the tests have gone for now.

I am by far a pro with this deck though, I still fizzle more often than I would like too. And I struggle vs a couple of players (not neccesarily their decks) as I am simply not as an accomplished player as they are.

Anyway, I am considering plenty still for my deck; but I have liked that last incarnation the most. Snapcaster MB with snap only in the SB. Disrupts help me a little; but twincast seams very usefull too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

I've mentioned this before (we live in a different metagame) but what do guys think of Divert. You can redirect Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole... most of Team Americas spells, as well as a burn spell from Zoo

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Play 2 in the SB, imho. :wink: