If you want to cut down Silences for Therapies, I asume you misplay the spellQuote:
Originally Posted by Madmankevinx
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If you want to cut down Silences for Therapies, I asume you misplay the spellQuote:
Originally Posted by Madmankevinx
Silence is sort of the reason to play this deck over ANT. Cutting it unless you have a sick read is otherwise wreckless and not as good as you think. Gonna back up Lemnear, go ahead and cut Silence then get back to us.
I'm actually not sure about this, what have older builds played as far as the Silence / Duress split?
I think I remember seeing like a 4/1/2 split of Chant / Silence / Duress at one point. In any case, it's not definitely right out to tweak the protection package. If you're going to change anything, the protection seems to be the most defensible.
It's debatable to swap 1-2 Duress for Therapies, but chopping Silences is a no-go. I did not follow Bryants 4/2/1 Split between Silence, Duress and Therapy for the moment because I'm very used to Infernal for Duress in thougher matchups
@Phazonmutant: we once had a pure chant/Silence protection which was a lackluster for the manabase and horrible if the game was draggin because chant-effects can not set your opponents back for turns stripping their key-cards. The Kicker of chant prove itself mainly useless unlike the target-clause of Silence. This got Chants slowly reduced (while silence-count increased) and cutted in the end afaik
Today I played with my deck, almost same than Bryants list against some weird BW death and taxes and took heavy loss. Won first game of cource. Then second game he plays T1 chalice @ 0 (I had LED and c. mox in hand). I just doing pondering and brainstorming. Then maybe T2 or 3 he plays thorn of amethyst and soon later sf mystic and thalia. I had sided abrupt decays in because I saw his chalices earlier. But couldnt find green mana and lost very quickly. Third game I had in my opening hand something like d. ritual, duress, therapy, gemstone, c. mox, wish, i. tutor. I play land duress but saw his pair of thorn of amethysts and 2 wasteland. Took thorn out. He wastes. I play chrome mox imprinting ritual and cabal therapy for thorn. But I couldnt find any lands or cast any spells so I loose easily. :rolleyes:
Today I ate potatoes.
Please tell me more, it sounds interesting. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
First, this hand is questionable if you know about chalice, Thorn, Wasteland and Thalia. If you still want to keep it you have to start with Chrome Mox (imprint Infernal) into Duress, to protect your land from wasteland while dodging chalice at the same time and get rid of the additional Tutor for value.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
Imprinting a Ritual here is totally wrong. How would you ever use your left Infernal for value if you imprint Dark Rituals?
As a viable alternative you might imprint Therapy to Mox, drop Land and Infernal for Ritual #2 and pray he does not have wasteland
And this is why I suck at this deck!
http://i.imgur.com/393Bs.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
I still don't get it lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Wombo Combo
Hi boys,
I've been testing a TES Opal variant which seems to me very potent, I can say the behaviour is similar but I changed the Base a lot to accomodate M.Opal.
The truth is that this Works and the maths behind also.
Here is the list:
TES Approach:
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Seat
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Mox Opal
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam
In Side you can put: at least for testing purposes:
1 Reprocess -> this acts as Business spell -> we can not play PiF now. and has sinergy with all our gobs tokens.
1 D.Returns
1 IGG
maybe 1 grim Tutor
...
I've been making tests and for me it IS the list, if anybody can test this I'd appreciate Feedback from you.
Thanks.
Bests Regards.
This is a different deck for another thread, metinks. Ain't broke = don't fix
I'm sorry to sh*t on your magic carpet but I don't think your list surpasses the power level and consistency of Bryants'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
Your deck needs metalcraft to enable the Mox Opals. This can be overcome by playing more artifacts, however it will always be something to overcome. In other words, even with a lot of artifacts you will still have situations where you need to crack that LED or use that LP to combo, while losing metalcraft.
Ok so you play a lot of artifacts? So the fetchlands, rainbowlands and duals got cut. So your other IMS have gotten a lot worse because of Mox Opals inclusion. You have a bigger weakness against Wasteland because of the mono-color lands and the loss of fetch. Next to that, you miss 3 other shuffle effects for Brainstorm.
As you said, you lose Past in Flames and Rite of Flame. Past in Flames enables a lot of lines which are vital. IT->RoF is a common play to gain some extra storm.
Reprocess only works if you have Goblins out. And when you've gone for the Goblins-plan you should be winning already. If not it will most likely be due to Engineered Explosives etc. Reprocess will not be able to sac goblins if they respond to your BW. Other situations it will be because your opponent has a bigger board than you do. In that case you need the goblins(so a complete EtW line)+BW+a lot of mana. That's a lot. If I would have a lot of mana and 2 enablers I would have gone for the PiF, IGG or DR. PiF and IGG usually guarantee a win and Reprocess draws random cards and will fizzle more often.
If the deck works out for you, who am I to tell you it doesn't. I just think it is less consistent and flexible than Bryants' list.
Tom
I agree is less consistent tan Bryant list, but it is alñso more explosive and has more odds of winning post A.N.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom T
It is all about counterparts.
The deck already wins post ad nauseam 90%+ of the time. And times you don't it's because you miss a LED or LP. With mox opal you have to hit 1 or 2 other non-mox opal artifacts. Considering you dropped gemstone mines you can't play artifact land. Rite has a higher cmc but makes more mana, so on average you'll have to draw less cards with adn.
The deck already wins post ad nauseam 90%+ of the time. And times you don't it's because you miss a LED or LP. With mox opal you have to hit 1 or 2 other non-mox opal artifacts. Considering you dropped gemstone mines you can't play artifact land. Rite has a higher cmc but makes more mana, so on average you'll have to draw less cards with adn.
I don't necessarily want to defend the Opal list (although it's an interesting idea), but I don't agree with some things you wrote.
I don't see how. I can just tap my Mox before starting to sac things right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom T
This might be somewhat compensated by having 4 Mox Opal that can tap for any colour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom T
I would say PiF enables lines that are sometimes helpful, and IT->RoF occasionally occurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom T
Reprocess is bad. I'd much rather use Diminishing Returns or Reforge the Soul.
It's worth trying to make Mox Opal work in Storm though.
I've been fiddling with some lists, which you can find in the ANT thread.
I disagree with Pelikanudo on several points in the list he posts.
I feel that Mox Opal needs the artifact lands to be able to consistently get Metalcraft turn 2-3.
I also feel that it is nearly impossible to create a three colour list that relies heavily on artifact lands.
These two things pushed me into the direction of two lists:
1. BR Storm with no cantrips. Very explosive, better protected than Belcher (discard main deck)
2. UB Storm. ANT-like list with 3-4x SDT main deck. Consistent, but slightly slow.
Disadvantages are clear:
- Not having cantrips makes the BR list a tad inconsistent.
- Not having Past in Flames in the UB list sucks, because PiF often wins games against discard decks and Tempo Thresh.
- SDT is very slow, which seems fine in this slow meta, but it can cost us games.
- Artifact lands are very vulnerable to Wasteland, which is rather popular in the current meta.
- Mox Opal needs metalcraft, or else it just sucks.
- The lists I have in mind all have like 14-16 zero cost arti's, which makes them vulnerable to Chalice@0.
Advantages are also clear:
- Mox Opal with Metalcraft is freckin' amazing! Just think about how much it speeds up SDT: T1 play Seat, cast SDT, cast Mox Opal, go. EOT: use SDT. T2 draw good card, Brainstorm, fetch away crap, go off protected. The extra mana in both T1 and T2 is just insane.
- Having 4x Mox Opal, 4x Lotus Petal and X Chrome Moxen makes it nearly impossible to lose post Ad Nauseam.
- Casting Empty the Warrens becomes easier and more effective if you add more Lotus Petal clones (my BR list now has three EtW main deck).
The Mox Opal lists deserve some testing. I personally feel they will probably not become better than the current TES and ANT lists, but I'm not sure. Maybe they will, and in that case I'd like to be one of the first to kick ass with them. :tongue:
Your former IMS can produce 2+ colors. Have you ever been stuck to a chrome mox with a blue or black card imprinted after your land got destroyed? Those really hurt your flexibility in the following turns. Now consider all your lands are able to just produce U or B, just like the Chrome Mox example. That limits your play big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
Mox Opal's metalcraft would often be dependent on your artifact land(s). When those get wasted and you lose metalcraft you get 2 for 1'd. Granted, if you're planning to combo out, have metalcraft and play the Mox Opal and your opponent can't make you lose metalcraft, you have an effective +1 in mana and storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
The deck loses some power against discard decks. Maybe it's my style of play, but I wish for PiF quite frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
Anyway, I hope I'm wrong. If this deck gets even better, I won't complain.:laugh:
Edit: Just figured out the Mox Opal build supports in-hand Ad Nauseam better than Bryants' build. Maybe this is the right 3x AdN deck..