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This kind of idea has been practiced and discussed years ago. The key issue here is that not only u need splash u and also it is too slow to tutor TM then into grindstone or something else in current meta...tempo is very important now especially against ur delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR
I really feel splashing blue just pushes you into a different deck. Once you splash blue why not play brainstorm, FoW, and Transmute Artifact. All great cards in a great (at least I love the UR painter deck too) deck, but very different from IP.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, and no. There are many great blue cards that can serve the combo but this is an other variation of the deck. I speak only for the second color, as a slash color.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
I also have some thoughts about changing the petals to Lion's Eye Diamonds. Obviously why...
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Cab (Charles) and I (Zack) are en route to New Jersey as I write this. Send me a message/phone number if anyone wants to talk shop this weekend there! Good luck to everyone going!
So how did you guys do?
Both of us went 3-3. I lost to elves, death and taxes, and goblins. Deck felt good though, gonna run it back through the super series tmrw. Will post the list when I return home for discussion, if anyone is curious. Involves a heavy and mostly successful commitment to white for SB options against burn and u/r, both of which Cab beat.
Too bad. Any other painters on day two? I am currently scrubbing out of a 75 man tournament. Playing shortcake with 3 MD sudden shock and sb sphere of law to little effect against a field full of miracles, delve decks and burn. Never seen so much burn in my life :(
I did a last minute audible and switched from shortcake painter to reanimator after I saw the sheer amount of burn. However I did see a shortcake player use a deflecting palm against a marit lage in round 6 in the "for fun tables". The only reason I think he is a shortcake player is a plateau and a recruiter on the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I was able to go 4-2 before getting my 3rd loss. Sphere of Law won me a game against Burn, which felt very satisfying. Losses were to a heavy burn UR Delver (no daze add Fireblasts and I believe 4x Chain Lightning), UWR Stoneblade where I drew 7 lands in a row under Bridge lock, Opponent Dug through time 2 or 3 times to find his Jace and ultimated me and some kind of Junk Nic Fit style deck? Not sure what it actually was, I'm not too good on fringe Legacy decks.
Ended the day at 5-3 before dropping.
Decks I beat were Burn, Enchantress, BUG Delver, Turbo Depths, and I can't remember the 5th.
From the looks of it of the 466 players at day two only one shortcake painter made it. All and all a very poor showing.
The meta has become exceedingly hostile for Imperial Painter. The deck scales in power with how good Blood Moon is. Right now Blood Moon isn't that great. Delver, one of our better matchups, has basically become Burn, our worst matchup. At 30% or more of the field, that's a problem...and that doesn't include the high number of ACTUAL Burn decks that were there on Day 1. Metas shift, and IP's day will come again. For now, it's time to either test some fairly bold changes, or explore a different deck.
Hello guys!!!
Today i played a tournment and i got a 4place!! (~30 players) [emoji1][emoji2][emoji3][emoji4]
Im freaking happy because its my first top4 with the deck.
1x2 Burn
2x1 Burn
2x1 Pox
1-1 Lands (Jund)
2x0 Dark Maverick
2x0 Elves
What can I say.. Sphere of law is AWESOME!! Koth was great either (1 copy in main deck).
Tomorrow i will make a review! Good night, gonna sleep now.
Took the words right out of my mouth, currently trying a different Painter idea to deal with this metagame better as Blood Moon isn't where it used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysandros
My brother and I were on the same 75 and started day 1 4/0 then proceeded to both go 0/3. I felt the deck was doing really well throughout the day, I only felt I lost 1 of my 3 loses to my opponent drawing like a champ. The other 2 I defiantly didn't mulligan properly and failed my deck in response. I can say strongly though I only won a single die roll and never lost a game one all day. I'll post my 75 and match ups when I get home from this 9 hour drive.
Yeah even CoP: Red's aren't enough. If we had a bigger white splash Kor Firewalkers would be viable, as they are recruitable. I don't regret building Painter but like Punishing Jund, it's just waiting in the rafters for the right time to strike. Maverick is making a comeback at the LGS, so Jund is ready for that. If UWR Stoneblade gets bigger, Painter and Jund are tempting to use again. Dragon Claws were nice but on game 2 people bring in the artifact hate anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysandros
Okay! Back from GP NJ. Charles (Cab) and I both played the basically the same list for both the GP and the Sunday Super Series. We left early during the SSS after 5 rounds because other members of our group/carpool dropped and it seemed best to head back to Pittsburgh at a reasonable hour, especially since there was a reporting error in my tournament results that wasn't caught until 2 rounds after the fact, placing me falsely at X-2 instead of X-1 with no way to reverse it.
Charles and I both went 3-3 at the GP.
My record:
R1: 2-0 Dredge W
R2: 2-1 UWR Stoneblade W
R3: 0-2 Elves L (T2ed both games, through disruption)
R4: 2-0 Merfolk W
R5: 2-1 Death and Taxes L
R6: 0-2 Goblins L (this matchup seemed impossible to me, but I don't have a lot of experience playing against it)
I know Charles beat both Burn and U/R Delver in the GP.
SSS, my record:
R1: 2-0 U/R Delver W
R2: 2-0 RUG Delver W
R3: 1-2 Dredge L (G2 win, mull into oblivion game 3)
R4: 2-0 U/R Delver W
R5: 2-0 U/R Delver (though a mutagenic growth/assault strobe version) W
Again, I believe Charles beat U/R at least once in this event as well. The results don't necessarily indicate a stellar performance, however, the deck felt very good against the key players of the metagame at NJ, and seemed to perform quite well against the combo decks as well - barring the abysmal Omnitell matchup and a sweet one-of variant of Tin Fins with a Doomsday sideboard that Charles ran into.
Anyway, we went into the tournament with the following list, which we tested mostly against U/R Delver, Burn, Miracles, and Stoneblade variants. During our testing with each other, U/R Delver seemed slightly favored, however, we are both pretty familiar with Painter and seemed dramatically better at piloting U/R against it than any of our opponents in NJ, as the results would indicate. As a result, the list has a very heavy commitment to white out of the SB against the expected field of decks that are A) very aggressive or fast combo and B) not shut out by Blood Moon (and thus not shutting us out of white) and C) budget lists.
LAND/MANA
4 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Plateau
3 Lotus Petal
1 Simian Spirit Guide
CREATURES
4 Painter's Servant
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Goblin Welder
INSTANTS
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sudden Shock
ARTIFACTS
4 Grindstone
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Kor Firewalker
SB: 1 Sudden Shock
SB: 1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
SB: 1 Assemble the Legion (I ran an Engineered Explosives here in the SSS)
Putting the manabase aside for a moment, the MD cut Jaya and a Revoker, and doesn't run Enlightened Tutor, for the Sudden Shocks, Ratchet Bomb, and Koth of the Hammer, as flexible and effective removal for a number of common matchups, and a resilient alternative to end the game respectively.
Moving to the mana and SB, we have the 3 Thorns, and REB for the usual suspects. MD, the split of fast mana is 3 Lotus Petal and 1 SSG, with 6 fetchlands instead of the usual 3-5, and 3 Plateaus. This list runs 20 lands and 4 SSG/LP instead of the more common 19/5 out of respect for the increased number of fetches and the weakness to Wasteland, and to facilitate casting all cards on time due to the efficacy of Ensnaring Bridge in the format. The 20th land would be what I would cut for the 4th Recruiter, if you want 4, though Recruiter fucked up, or had nothing to offer in my Ensnaring Bridge locks on several occasions in the tournament. This is all to hit WW out of the board easily, and preferably on turn one. While it opens us up to Wasteland more, I was probably wasted once or twice in both days at most, and the card seems to be on the decline at the moment. Most of the sideboarding goes something like this for more common match ups:
U/R Delver
-4 Blood Moon
-1 Magus of the Moon
-1 Koth
-1 Ancient Tomb
-1 Goblin Welder or SDT
+1 Sudden Shock
+4 Kor Firewalker
+1 Duergar Hedge-mage
+1 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Engineered Explosives (in the SSS)
This is obviously very hateful with the Firewalkers, and slows the game down enough to gain control and combo or beat them down with multiple KFs. The Duergar Hedge-mage is an all star in this list in general, as it is 99% of the time Manic Vandal without a mandatory trigger, and often can be a Wear/Tear on a stick. It's in this match-up exclusively to stop Sulfuric Vortex, which was a huge problem in our testing. Two of my three U/R Delver opponents brought in Vortex, though it wasn't cast, and the games could have gone differently had it been out. Sudden Shock (which showed up in the Top 8 Landstill deck, coincidentally) was an absolute all star in pretty much every match where creatures exist, fwiw. After noting the drastic difference in the quality of the match up when the other person playing was not a Painter player, I would imagine that the Firewalkers could be cut down to 3, especially if Burn and U/R aren't as prevalent soon. Ratchet Bombs and EE take care of tokens, flipped Delvers and 1 drops, and can get you out of situations where you're being swarmed.
Miracles:
-1 Magus of the Moon
-2 Sudden Shock
+1 REB
+1 Engineered Explosives (or Assemble the Legion)
+1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
Koth is already in the maindeck here, along with Ratchet Bomb for angels and Counterbalance. Hedge-mage cant potentially get you out of CB, along with EE for CB and angels, while Assemble, if that's the choice instead, offers another win condition beside Koth and the combo. Overpaying for EE with colorless mana is highly encouraged if you're already in CB/SDT lock. I think 4 CMC is the safest that's not 7, though 3 is pretty good too, depending on the Miracles build.
Stoneblade:
+1 Sudden Shock (or REB, or both)
+1 Duergar Hedge-Mage (for Jitte/Batterskull)
- 1 Magus of the Moon
- 1 Ratchet Bomb (if they're not on Young Pyro)
This matchup seems pretty good as long you stop Jitte, resolve Blood Moon, or land Ensnaring Bridge and protect it. They run a couple basics sometimes, but keeping them off WW for Council's Judgement or UU for True-Name seems to work for me usually.
Death and Taxes
something along the lines of:
- 1 Magus of the Moon
- 1 REB
- 1 SDT
- 1 Goblin Welder
+1-2 Containment Priest
+1 Sudden Shock
+1 Engineered Explosives (if you have it)
+1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
Basically similar to Stoneblade, but Containment Priest can stop you from getting run-over by Vial, and can occasionally shut down good Vial hands with bad mana in conjunction with Blood Moon. EE and Ratchet Bomb are useful at a variety of settings, and Hedge-Mage can pick off equipment and Aether Vials. I lost to this in close games in NJ, but usually consider this a favorable matchup in my previous experience with mono-red versions.
Dredge
- everything, moons, welders, whatever. leave in a way to kill your own stuff.
+ 3 Containment Priest
+1 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Engineered Explosives
I just look for a piece of hate, and hope to cast it turn 1. Containment Priest practically cannot be beaten by Dredge outside of Firestorm if it happens before they have a creature on the board with Bridge in the yard. The card is good enough, consistent enough, and cheap enough to get out on turn 1 that I cut Crypts because of their narrowness for more Priests, as the Priests are good against virtually all other non-storm combo matchups, and things like DnT.
Anyway, I'm running out of gas, and am exhausted, but am eager to explore more possibilities with the SB and with tuning for more matchups. This is by no means a complete or comprehensive explanation of the choices in this build of the deck, and I'm sure that some tweaking and changes could be made. In particular, I think Engineered Explosives is more flexible and necessary than Assemble the Legion, and I think 3 Kor Firewalker is probably just fine over 4. Containment Priest really shores up traditionally bad combo matchups, however, and beats down well behind bridge there as well.
Please let me or Charles know if you have any thoughts on the list, or any questions or whatever. I will say once again that I believe the list itself is far better than either of our records at GPNJ would indicate, and that while the SB isn't exactly traditional, it has a greater degree of flexibility than it appears to at first blush. Cheers!
Zack
EDIT: I should add, amongst other things, that G1, I always try to hide the white splash, or at least the very heavy commitment to it, if at all possible by fetching basics. There aren't any white cards in the MD, partially for this reason, and partially because I don't like Enlightened Tutor very much. In matches where this is successful, the surprise factor, even against opponents who know Painter fairly well is invaluable.
Nice write up and interesting build. Lot's of cool stuff happening in your sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by RingoDeathStarr
I just want to comment here. I've forgotten this myself at times, but you can totally choose to find nothing with the Recruiter if you need to get him out of your hand and can't cast anything else. Because the recruiter is looking for a card with specific characteristics failing to find is a possibility and therefor option. Additionally if you want to tutor something up but need to be at zero cards when you are done you can tutor up SSG and exile him for the mana. (Not a thing you would normally do, so you might not have seen this line. You also only have 1 SSG so it's possible you already used it.)
Hey, thanks GundamGuy! I was aware of the IR fail to find, and SSG tricks, I should be more specific about what I meant, but it is good for anyone who doesn't know to see, and I can imagine quite a few people wouldn't think of trying it.
I actually did at one point get to 0 cards with Bridge by recruiting for SSG to cast a Goblin Welder to empty my hand in one match in the tournament. The other situations weren't issues with not being able to fail to find, but things like dropping bridge, and being stuck on 3-4 mana, and ripping another Recruiter or another 3 drop within a turn or two of resolving Bridge before having time to cast the first one. I realize that A) this is mostly bad luck and B) in some cases, maybe I could have mulliganed awkward Bridge hands with Recruiters or uncastable REBs or Blood Moons in them, but it was awkward enough that I felt cutting 1 Recruiter would be ok. I want to see one during a short-mid length game, but often times two can be too slow, or straight up kill you, if you don't have a SDT to smooth out your draws, or juggle the glut of 3 drops in this deck on top of your library until you get to enough mana to cast more than one expensive spell a turn.
As an aside directed at nobody at all, but perhaps to preemptively address some nitpicking, I'm really not trying to challenge the orthodoxy of 4x Imperial Recruiter. If 3x really upsets someone out there, by all means, run 4. We ran 3 and a 20th land instead, but both I'm sure are totally fine. I'd prefer to discuss our SB and other decisions in the decklist I posted above, which I hope might be a nice starting point for IP to adjust to a very hostile post-Treasure Cruise metagame, than debate the obvious merits of Imperial Recruiter, which seems a lot less interesting and productive.
Hey fellows, I ask apologies about my english, its not so good but I think you're gonna understand. I'll make a short review about my 4place yesterday.
Mư list:
Main deck
3 City of Traitors
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Painter's Servant
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Blood Moon
3 Lotus Petal
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Enlightened Tutor
Sideboard
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Manic Vandal
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sudden Shock
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sphere of Law
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ensnaring Bridge
------
1x2 Burn L
G1: He started really fast and I mull to 5. Nothing to do.
G2: T3 he puted vortex on table and I did E.tutor on his turn and took Sphere of Law. It worked very well! GG
G3: I started with Sphere in my hand, but I just resolved it on T4. Too late. I couldn't stand and the combo didn't came at time.
2x1 Burn W
G1: He did guide g. in t1 and Eidolon in t2. Nothing to do.
G2: I painted him really fast, in t2. I protected painter with blasts+SSG in my hand.
G3: I won with Sphere of Law in t2. This cards is really efective in this matchup.
2x1 Pox W
G1: I resolved a blood moon in t3 but it was late. He tooked a forest and Liliana won the game alone. In the end, I had only a ens. bridge on the table.
G2: I did blood moon in T2 and I broke his manabase. Then I did recruiter on revoker naming Liliana. I managed the game till the end attacking and trying to get the combo.
G3: Koth gave me the victory in this match. Jaya helped either.
1-1 Lands D
G1: He started really fast with chalice in T1 (mox+land). I tried to take painter+jaya with recruiter, but he did 2 r. knights. I did ens. bridge but I couldnt hold him.
G2: The game was really hard, I started putting grindstone in the table, t2 blood moon. The he did burning wish to hull breach! :/ But I reestablished in a hard game to the victory, with jaya (brilliant card).
2-0 Dark Maverick W
G1: He made shaman, i did sol land + top. He did thalia and I did blood moon. It was a easy game, really easy. I just waited the cards of the combo.
G2: He mull to 5 (trying to find Leyline), but he failed in his aim. Then I did magus in T2 and Koth gave me the victoy. Really EASY match.
2-0 Elves W
G1: This game was really funny. I did blood moon in T1 and welder in T2. Then painter in T3. I attacked him with welder and painter till the end. My draws? Only lands. I finished this game with 13 lands and 3 blood moon on table.
G2: He did fetch+forest+shaman. In my t1 i did ratchet bomb. Then he did visionary. Then I did painter+grindstone with a SSG+blast in my hand. He made a lot of things in t3 but he failed in find bahemoth. In my back, I won.
I really happy with this results. I used to play with death and taxes and this is my first top8 wint IP. I didn't played against any blue deck yesterday. I think it's really importat to have jaya and koth in MD, at least 1 copy. Sphere os law was great too.
Zack did a fantastic job summarizing the weekend. However, I will expand on some of his thoughts and add some of mine:Quote:
Originally Posted by RingoDeathStarr
First, our lists did differ by 2 cards in the 75: I was running a 2nd SSG over the 3rd Welder in the MD and a second Tormod's Crypt over the 3rd Containment Priest. I agreed that with the heavy white splash, we needed to go to 20 lands and I did not want to sacrifice the SSG to bring in the 3rd welder with a meta that would be looking to deal with Delvers and Swiftspears all day. If I had to do it again, I may have gone with the Welder. While I don't remember a time where a Welder would have gotten me out of the shitty situations I managed to put myself in, Blood Moon was pretty weak all day and being able to Jam it T1 wouldn't have helped me in a lot of my matches. Overall, the list felt VERY smooth. I only remember one instance (against deathblade) where I started to feel like I was flooding.
If you would like me to go into detail about any of these matches, I can. While I didn't write down every detail, they are still fresh in my mind and I am willing to answer any questions you may have:
Friday Grinder:
2-0 Miracles - This guy was the only 'jerk' I played all weekend. Early moons in both games really messed with his plan. I had enough pressure on him that he wasn't able to answer the combo in either game.
0-2 Omnitell - Yuck. This match-up seems like it would be OK since they are mono-U... It isn't. Our lock pieces do nothing and they have soooo much redundancy. You can fight as much as you would like, but but eventually they can combo you out.
Saturday Main event:
1-2 BUG Delver - G1 I didn't see a lock piece at all. I eventually got to a point where I was at 3 life and I had to go for the combo with Welder/Stone on the board and a painter in the GY. Unfortunately, he found abrupt decay wit ha cruise the turn before. G2 an early moon wins it. G3 I mulled into oblivion and couldn't recover.
2-0 Burn - G1 I had an early combo with blast backup GG. G2 I was able to get 3 Kor Firewalkers on the field when he had 2 Eidolons. I was at 6 life but there was nothing he could cast. Firewalkers just beat him down.
2-0 UR Delver - G1 I notice he is stuck on lands early. I answer his threats as the slowly come in with Blasts and Sudden Shocks. Eventually I combo out. G2 I have 2 firewalkers out to answer his Swiftspears. I am able to answer his other threats and finish him off pretty easily
2-1 Storm - I notice again that he is struggling to make his land drops. I vindicate his 2 seas and I am able to combo off without much resistance. G2 I board for reanimator since I didn't see much of his deck. I am Stormed on T3 :( . G3 we both mull and keep turds that don't really do a lot. I draw a bit better than him, I have a Thorn of Amethyst on the table, and I combo him out when he has 3/4 of his manabase on the table.
0-2 Doomsday Tin Fins - - have NO idea what he is on (I am thinking Deathblade) while I am beating him down to 2 life. As I swing for lethal he entombs GB and reanimates it. Next turn he has an Emmy that clears my board. G2 he fires off a doomsday package that lets him "cast" emmy on t2 with Shelldock Isle. It didn't go well from there.
1-2 Deathblade - I feel like I should have had this match. G1 ends when I T1 moon him. G2 I mull to 6 with a T1 moon with blast backup on the play. It is Thoughtsiezed away and I stumble around with awkward draws. Using monkeys and recruiters I get him to about 6 life. However, I cannot answer a SFM and Batterskull and he pulls away. G3 I mull aggressively into a hand that does something. I go to 5 before I realize this may not have been the best idea. He has answers and I feel like I need to play catch-up the whole game. I eventually get a bridge with 0 cards (right before Jitte gets online) but he finds am AD and I lose.
Sunday Super Series:
2-1 Reanimator - This guy blows me away G1 with a T2 GB. G2 containment priest is an all-star and I end up beating him down. G3 we go back and forth with small beats: While I have 2 Tormod's Crypts out, he eventually Reanimates a containment priest that he had Thoughtsiezed away to slow down my 2 Recruiter 1 Painter beatdown package. The priest prevents him from doing much and I blast his relevant spells. Eventually, he leaves the priest back on defense. I get a painter on blue, blast the priest and swing for lethal
2-0 UWR Delver - Thanks Blood Moon.
0-2 UWR Delver - I moon lock him early in G1 but my hands are slow. He hard casts Batterskull and gets me to 9 before I find a bridge. He bolts my painter when I try to combo and then rips the last 3 bolts from the top of his deck. Yuck. G2 I don't see a moon or lock pieces. This game when on for a VERY long time. Eventually a Batterskull and a few Meddling Mages get him there.
0-2 Sneak and Show - He was just too fast for me. He had removal for my Containment priest in G2 with Wipe Away and an Emrakul after that sealed it. I really think I had checked-out around this time. I noticed my play getting sloppy here.
Just a few thoughts:
- Blood Moon doesn't feel great right now. However, I hope the 3-color manabases stick around and get big again. With BBDs win and Burn not doing very well, I hope that the meta becomes a bit softer to Moon over the next month or so.
- Ensnaring Bridge was awesome. I wanted to see this lock piece more than I wanted to see Moons
- I didn't miss the 4th recruiter, but this isn't a large enough sample size to make an informed decision.
- Sudden Shock is fantastic right now
- Kor Firewalker is great. However, this is the reason I cut E. Tutor. With 4 cards dedicated to Burn/UR Delver, I don't think E. Tutor can shine. I would consider going to 3 like Zack (Ringo) had suggested.
- I felt I was 1 card short in the SB to Miracles. I added Assemble the Legion Friday night after the grinder.
- The 3rd plateau didn't feel like it made the manabase any more vulnerable. Since I cut the 3rd recruiter, I just switched out the great furnace for another Plateau. I was also able to hide the white plash for almost all of my games. I distinctly remember the Burn player and Reanimator player talking to me about the white plash after the round.
- People still aren't sure how to play against painter in the early rounds
- Containment priest is REAL. Get 2.
- I was planning on running 2 Daretti. Then 1 Daretti. Then it got cut. It looks really good, but I feel that Koth is just stronger and he forces your opponent to deal with it immediately. I would try Daretti again, but Koth is an absolute Hammer (hehhhhh) in this deck.
- *Random* Everyone I played against (with the exception of the Miracles player) was great. I had a blast playing with them (even when I lost) and overall the weekend was very fun.
- I was still not confident going into this weekend with the deck. After Friday night this started to go away. I have to stop doubting my play: I think I piloted the deck well and I have more skill than I give myself credit for. Watching a lot of Legacy helps as I was able to Identify EVERYTHING my opponents were trying to do and adjust my play and sideboard accordingly.
Lastly, HUUUUUGE "thank you" to Zack for coming up with a lot of the changes that helped us this weekend. I think my only contribution to this list was the Ratchet Bomb in the main. He had the idea for the additional land, Kor Firewalkers, and Sudden shocks. While I don't think this is exactly where the deck wants to be, I think it is where we wanted to be for this weekend.
Please excuse any errors I made while posting this. I am still half-asleep and my thoughts are a little disjointed at the moment. If you would like clarification about anything, please let me know.
Nice report guys.
A few things...
first, looking at your matches, it seems like an early moon in most of your games would have been really really good. I think you guys are under-valuing Blood Moon in some MUs. Blood Moon was an all-star for me at the last open against U/R Delver. Most lists only run 1-2 islands and if you shut off their fetches they can't shuffle or fill their grave as well for their cruises. It's obviously your best card against 3 color delver or stoneforge packages. Yes, the Moon isn't fantastic against reanimator or other heavy artifact mana strategies, but it never was and these match-ups are dealt with via our SB.
Second, could you guys expand a little on your choice of kor firewalkers? I guess you guys were all in on cutting Moons in the red match-ups and bringing in the walkers. They don't seem bad, but it seems like you need them in multiples. The fact that they are taking up four slots in your SB suggests you guys were really worried about seeing a lot of burn or UR Delver. I know UR delver is really popular, but in general it doesn't seem like a bad MU for us anyway. I guess if you really don't like tutors then loading up on hate bears isn't a bad strategy. I personally think the tutors are still good though for combo pieces or silver bullets, especially with tops. glad to hear that containment priest was good. I added one to my SB but again with tutors I still want to be able to fetch RiP, etc so will probably still stick with just one. What was your guys' plan against decks with Eldrazi,etc in them? Seems harder to win without a consistent way to answer the Eldrazi triggers and it's harder to win with beat-down/alternative strategies without Jaya.
Finally, I know that sudden shock is a house against stoneforge/delver strategies, but considering two of Ringo's losses were against tribal decks, wouldn't a couple sweeper effects be better out of the board? I tested sudden shock against elves and it was awful. I'm also just more worried about the tribal MUs than delver ones. Elves and Goblins are both difficult MUs.
Sorry to sound like I'm total digging on you guys, I don't mean to. I will say I do like the idea of a 20th land but I still need the 5 accel pieces as Blood Moon is still a high priority for me. I also like the hedge-mage and can totally get behind that.
As for cutting a revoker, I am TOTALLY on board with this, and honestly am considering cutting this card entirely. It's okay against Miracles but basically always gets killed. It has some value in other MUs as well (elves, sneak and show, vial decks) but I think I would almost rather have a main deck containment priest against all of these MUs. The priest would also have great affect against dredge and reanimator. It's obviously a nombo with the welder/painter interaction, so I probably wouldn't actually play it main, but I just have not been loving revoker AT ALL.
Has anyone ever gotten Assemble the Legion into play in a major tourney? I still think it has potential but if I wasn't playing tutors I don't think I would bother.
Finally, did anyone actually play with Daretti in New Jersey? How did that go?