[Deck] 43 Lands

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Originally Posted by KntrellCL

You guys shouldnt be result-oriented. The death n taxes guy just had one of the worst mana screws ive ever seen. I just cant believe how weak that list is against RIP... it was too much. In the finals he had the game won and took him like forever to change from "not losing" to be winning and he LOST 15 minutes later... is just too much. And he is almost 90% lost against combo pre and post board.

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I have to admit that I am also a poxplayer, and charmed by this hybrid version, which makes me a bit biased. I always found there was a common ground between both decks, seems like Haas found that spot by packing smallpox and Liliana. Loam+waste+smallpox+ Liliana is BGPOX's disruptive core, alongside recurring Pfires you have an incredible disruptive package in manadenial (that D&Tplayer got smallpoxed a couple times) or a Liliana softlock. Seems very strong against greedy manabases with DRS, Stoneforge packages, TrueNameNemesis. I did miss the explosiveness of exploration though. This deck might have serious flaws, nevertheless this is the best result for both pox and lands in a long time and is doubtfully just a lucky streak. He certainly deserves credit for experimenting like this.

Being weak to RIP, as being soft to combo, is definitely the flaw of this build. But I assume he anticipated a low amount of gravehate, which was the case and payed off. Dropping entomb and faithless looting (Im not too fond of squee and spirit either) for crop rotation, gamble, Pfire or exploration could help, and take it closer to the RG comboversion, which is what I would experiment with.

So it seems that reanimator of many variants is becoming popular. A big problem I would like to note is Tidespout Tyrant... Probably Ashen Rider as well.

I've been playing Lands for a while, however I have only run into Reanimator a few times. Our game 1 matchup seems to be a really low percentage, and the primary reason for this is because of the above two creatures they choose to reanimate. Our only real maindeck answer to this problem is;

1) Hope they bin their creature on their own turn giving you a turn to transmute into bog

or

2) Run crop rotation and hope that the game 1 you play against them, you have a crop rotation in the opening hand... and they don't have a force of will.

Anyone have any input on this Match-up?

they can ONLY win w. tidesprout.

our counters are ensnaring bridge, winning first, gilded drake, and whatever yard hate you want to run. But sure, if they know how to play the matchup, its unfavorable.

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Originally Posted by Ingo

Being weak to RIP, as being soft to combo, is definitely the flaw of this build. But I assume he anticipated a low amount of gravehate, which was the case and payed off.

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I think the Black version, with access to discard, is really not that soft to combo, compared to other builds. ofc you could be silly like me at GP Amsterdam, and play 13 sideboard Cards in the matchup - then it favorable :P

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Originally Posted by Jastern101

So it seems that reanimator of many variants is becoming popular. A big problem I would like to note is Tidespout Tyrant... Probably Ashen Rider as well.

I've been playing Lands for a while, however I have only run into Reanimator a few times. Our game 1 matchup seems to be a really low percentage, and the primary reason for this is because of the above two creatures they choose to reanimate. Our only real maindeck answer to this problem is;

1) Hope they bin their creature on their own turn giving you a turn to transmute into bog

or

2) Run crop rotation and hope that the game 1 you play against them, you have a crop rotation in the opening hand... and they don't have a force of will.

Anyone have any input on this Match-up?

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I try to get Orb(needle is usually on maze/karakas) or leave a waste/ghost quarter up to combat Ashen Rider's trigger and save utility lands at the very least. You can still Ghost Quarter lock them out, but only play Tabernacle if you have them with no mana in play and/or lock pieces to prevent them from reanimating Rider again.

The only route to combat an impending Tidespout is to use taxing lock pieces+waste/port to prevent them from casting multiple spells once in play. S&T can bypass chalice, so there may be time to land thalia/sphere or even canonist. With only one Tidespout in the deck, I would personally aggressively mull to chalice on one and hope they don't have him in hand.

Don't wait for g3 to board in art/encht hate. Aside from possibly hitting an animate dead, needle needs to be stopped and some lists use leyline too.

Yeah I lost my win and in at SCG: Cleveland to Tidespout Tyrant, was close to beating it just punted. I think the only way to beat that guy is mana denial them so that tabernacle locks it out, and when it dies hope they give you an opportunity to bog. That or simply main start main decking a tormod's crypt to transmute for with tolaria west might help.

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Originally Posted by Eldar

Yeah I lost my win and in at SCG: Cleveland to Tidespout Tyrant, was close to beating it just punted. I think the only way to beat that guy is mana denial them so that tabernacle locks it out, and when it dies hope they give you an opportunity to bog. That or simply main start main decking a tormod's crypt to transmute for with tolaria west might help.

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Crypt can be countered, needled, bounced(etruth/vensor)and discarded. It is also harder to play through taxing effects, which can be an issue if you can't cast crypt in the same turn it has been tutored up. I always preferred bog because there is only one gy hate card needed in the deck and you can loam it back as soon as you dredge into it too.

Crypt poorly overlaps with tendrils based decks because we want chalice at 0, so that's a nombo right there.

I think the bog should be enough since the board already forces the combo player to "have it". Crypt is too low impact vs other decks to warrant the sb slot, but you can make a case if you predict lots of dredge, tinfins, and reanimator.

Wasn't going to argue the advantages/disadvantages of crypt with you. I was simply saying that it is a much harder card to play around if it sticks, and against reanimator if crypt sticks its hard for them to deal with. If they waste a needle on it, then they aren't using it to stop your maze of ith or oblivion stone. As it stands myself I run a bog main and a crypt board, but if you are that worried about tyrant then perhaps you should have the crypt in the main if reanimator is that much of a concern. I have been playing lands to great success for a long time and I know the deck in and out. One graveyard hate card is just speculation on your part also. I have played the deck with two before and it is very nice, not always necessary mind you but nice in certain situations.

However if you want to go into the pros/cons of bog then you do need to keep in mind it can get exiled by deathrite while crypt cannot. And honestly I like to play cards that aren't very narrow, thus I currently run a bog main and a crypt board. I do not however run crop rotation, but I plan to do so when I play next weekend at Columbus, I just haven't had the time to tweak the list to accommodate it.

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Originally Posted by snorlaxcom

I was brewing a jund lands list myself, but auto-included pfire. The other thing I didn't like was shutting yourself off with chalice at 1. Having recurable removal for planeswalkers is great though. Hexmage can also remove counters from chalice so it's not that bad if you are stalling to assemble the combo.

Blood moon is brutal here, but you dont have space for fetches. My rough mu with lands in general is miracles. Sb seals are great there if they resolve(nice against omnitell too).

The random matches can be annoying vs a midrange junk deck or similar maverick list where they run swords and drs. D&t has many ways to deal with marit. They can block for days with just a mom and flying dork. Flickerwisp and swords can keep up with marit too. Karakas is whatevs vs lands. Although, I'd probably add a pyroclasm to the side or sulfur elemental if that deck is a problem. Mindcensor does a lot of work in this mu.

So definitely add a darkblast md so you can kill flying dudes before they get a sword equiped(d&t or vs clique). Great tricks with thicket.

This looks like a lot of fun to play!

Edit: With so few green sources and do nothing lands I would md a riftstone portal if chasm is contributing so little. Having a tabernacle out also buys time against many aggro decks and is a brutal surprise once crop rotated in. Have you tried this out before?

Some number of dark confidant has always been strong in the sb when the manabase can handle him.

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Thanks for the tips.

Currently the deck is gold fishing an average of t2-t3 token generation...mainly turn 2 or turn 4 with some t1's (mox mox depths hexmage victory!)


riftstone portal
darkblast
crippling fatigue
the tabernacle at pendrell vale
cabal pit
flame jab


with entomb these are all possibilities and good ones. Im just trying to figure out what to cut for them. That will come with more testing. Crippling fatigue is getting serious consideration strictly because of DRS. While the recursion theme is not necessary for this deck to function it certainly makes it less consistent and slower.

Dark confidant might be good but not sure what I would bring it in against... Against combo it seems too slow, against control / aggro , they'll have removal since its the only creature in the deck.... other than marit lage

If there was a fling land that might be worth looking into for the sword issues but It's very very hard to find a catch all answer for the problems this deck faces and i feel like improving the consistency / speed is really the best way to handle issues like swords.

***EDIT Flame Jab seems to be a great answer to DRS since it cannot be removed from game between castings. New DRS will have summoning sickness and give you a window to discard 2 lands to kill it. With Punishing fire it can be RFG before it returns to your hand. It also requires grove and gains opponent life. Further more, Flame jab can be used under bloom moon. Not to terribly effective by still something to possibly buy you turns.

I'm seeing the following situation play out quite often. T1 DRS my t1 gamble for flame jab, t2 kill DRS

T1 pass Oppoentn t1 DRS, EOT entomb Flame jab, t2 kill DRS

I think as a 1 of its going to be good.

hi, everyone here.
im testing now quite popular jund depths. i made some changes like +1 Cabal Pit in main to figure with small trouble creatures. also i try 1x worm harvest and it works revelant! most players wait with their plan for my Merit but if i am not sure that i can, i kill them by worm army.

but why i post here? i try to find good sideboard against SneakShow deck and agains Unfair Dex like ANT / TES ...anyone test this deck?

For now:
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Nether Spirit - still in testing

2 Crop Rotation
4 Entomb
1 Punishing Fire

4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
1 Worm Harvest

4 Mox Diamond

4 Liliana of the Veil

1 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Maze of Ith
1 Taiga
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cabal Pit
1 Ghost Quarter

SB: 1 Punishing Fire
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 2 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge

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Originally Posted by Phelix

I think the Black version, with access to discard, is really not that soft to combo, compared to other builds. ofc you could be silly like me at GP Amsterdam, and play 13 sideboard Cards in the matchup - then it favorable :P

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Out of curiosity, what were these 13 cards, black discard?

Todd Anderson had an interesting take on this deck. He claimed his reanimate sideboard was really good against other combo decks.
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._with_tod.html

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Originally Posted by HardBrain

hi, everyone here.
im testing now quite popular jund depths. i made some changes like +1 Cabal Pit in main to figure with small trouble creatures. also i try 1x worm harvest and it works revelant! most players wait with their plan for my Merit but if i am not sure that i can, i kill them by worm army.

but why i post here? i try to find good sideboard against SneakShow deck and agains Unfair Dex like ANT / TES ...anyone test this deck?

For now:
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Nether Spirit - still in testing

2 Crop Rotation
4 Entomb
1 Punishing Fire

4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
1 Worm Harvest

4 Mox Diamond

4 Liliana of the Veil

1 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Maze of Ith
1 Taiga
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cabal Pit
1 Ghost Quarter

SB: 1 Punishing Fire
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 2 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge

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I also agree with Todd about exploration, however I would like to see that number go up to 4. I played around with Haas' stock list. The lack of Exploration was irresponsible at best.

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Originally Posted by psilance

I also agree with Todd about exploration, however I would like to see that number go up to 4. I played around with Haas' stock list. The lack of Exploration was irresponsible at best.

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I haven't really missed Exploration. Cutting Liliana however seems absurd to me. But having Exploration can help end games faster , so I'll have to try it over Liliana. Still, even though Raven's Crime/Loam gets our opponents hellbent aswell, I really like having options with Liliana.
She also couldn't care less about our graveyard, where Crime/Loam obviously does.
If however you play Exploration, Glacial Chasm should definately be considerd somewhere in the 75 in my opinion.

Edit: Ofcourse I'm talking about Jund Depths. Lands is a different deck.

Can people talk about Jund Depths here please?

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Originally Posted by Anen

Can people talk about Jund Depths here please?

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^This, please...

My record against bug delver is 1-4-1. It is a frustrating matchup. I have the worst dredging here and the early hymns hurt(vs jund this is never the case). Does anyone have a better record against them to help me out? I always face one or two in my shop and for sure at scg opens. I am working in pfire and grove #4 to combat early hymns and still keep drs off the board.

Hi everyone,

Since several weekss, I learn to play with Lands. I managed to do fairly well in my group of friends.
Some times, here and there a just lack black mana. So I add an Underground Sea in place of one of the three Tropical Island (to keep the count of blue mana for Transmute). I also cut Crucible of Worlds for a single Gamble.

What do you think about ?
Here is the 75 :

//Artifact (8)
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb

//Enchantment (4)
4 Exploration

//Instant (6)
2 Entomb
2 Intuition
2 Punishing Fire

//Sorcery (6)
1 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime

//Land (36)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
3 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath

SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt

Sea is fine with entomb, but change that heath to a misty before anything else. I wouldn't ever go below three of any card you want to see in the majority of games. Intuition played as an instant demonic tutor has made it way more versatile in this deck. Having at least three copies makes dredging into said card more probable when being forced to dredge aggressively.

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Originally Posted by snorlaxcom

Sea is fine with entomb, but change that heath to a misty before anything else. I wouldn't ever go below three of any card you want to see in the majority of games. Intuition played as an instant demonic tutor has made it way more versatile in this deck. Having at least three copies makes dredging into said card more probable when being forced to dredge aggressively.

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Yes I forget to update my list but yes, I removed that Windswept Heath for a Misty Rainforest (;
The Underground Sea added really help to setup when opening with an Entomb.

With 2 Entomb, I am more confortable to find Life from the Loam or any utility land I need later.
I prefere it over crop rotation for now.

I will stay with the 2 Intuition / 1 Gamble configuration for a while.
Intuition is very great, but a bit slow. Gamble is cheaper and give you anycard (ok, Gamble you any card).
I might go for 3 Intuition / 0 Gamble later. Time will tell.

Thanks for your advises Snorlaxcom :)

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Originally Posted by snorlaxcom

^This, please...

My record against bug delver is 1-4-1. It is a frustrating matchup. I have the worst dredging here and the early hymns hurt(vs jund this is never the case). Does anyone have a better record against them to help me out? I always face one or two in my shop and for sure at scg opens. I am working in pfire and grove #4 to combat early hymns and still keep drs off the board.

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Bump. Any help for his mu? All I can do is pfire and grove# 4 without drastically affecting my other percentages. Any play tips here?