Now, we're talking.
It's still worse than Cursecatcher in a vacuum, and I'm not convinced it would be any better than any of the other guys, but at least this man warrants some testing.
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Now, we're talking.
It's still worse than Cursecatcher in a vacuum, and I'm not convinced it would be any better than any of the other guys, but at least this man warrants some testing.
Yes my first post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, i dont think that theres nothing in Zendikar that can replace the current 'Folks-- Curse, Adept, LoA, Sovereign etc. The new guy might make the cut "curve wise" T1 Curse T2 "new Merfolk" with some back-up mana for Snare T3 "Lord" and swing for four but im still not convinced. Its worth testing though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare
Just a question, my metas currently composed of Rock the most annoying of which runs white for StP and Relinquary and Lox Hierarch and im really having a hard a time against it. What would be the optimal build and SB for this match-up? Thanks
Just now??? Yep, now were talking...Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian
Cursecatcher is really good with the mana denial plan and as such is really best early.
Flyer-makin-folk is probably a better topdeck; just as bad if you are losing but CAN let you through for the alpha strike.
Question is.... Who is "Cosi."
This was many posts back. However, there was not much of a response to it. I have tested both sides of the spectrum a lot lately. I agree with Tacosnape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I am currently running a list similar to Alex Bertoncini's Ug Merfolk:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28372
But I dropped 2 MD pithing needle for 2 more sovereign, and I didn't do the trinket mage thing in the sideboard (I tested it and did not like it that much).
You can say you don't like Ug or whatever but that isn't the point of my post.
The importance of my/his build is 9-12 lords, 21 lands (yes!), and everything on your turn. I have found the deck to curve out very nicely and one will almost always have mana to sink into something useful. Even if you have that extra U open, one of the strengths of stifle/spell snare is just faking it out. In addition, I feel stifle is strongest on the first few turns. Especially in the tough zoo matchup, as once they get the lands they need set up then stifle will be less useful on their fetches. It goes for every deck, really: since Merfolk has a problem with dealing with permanents in play, stifle won't help once those permanents are in play. So I would recommend fighting this strategy using other measures.
Stifle + Waste is a beloved tool. Dreadstill and Canadian Threshold are able to handle it because Dreadstill can combo out and often splashes red, and Canadian also splashes red. Also, both those decks do not rely on 2+ creatures so they can play very much at instant speed. And also, both of these decks have very important stifle targets besides fetches. For example, Canadian has crypt/relic. Dreadstill has dreadnaught obviously. Merfolk does not have this secondary very important target to stifle.
Basically, my argument comes down to: I do not like Stifle OR Spell Snare in the deck. For that matter, I'm not a fan of Swords to Plowshares either, though I feel that debate is for another time. I strongly urge you to test a list without the stifle + waste combo, or spell snare. I have tested every form of merfolk possible and have found Ug sorcery speed to be the strongest build. Just like with many dropping port from goblins, the rise of many aggro decks makes me think stifle should be droppped to the wayside, along with spell snare.
Thoughts?
P.S. has anyone else tested Steely Resolve that was brought up? I'm starting to test it some.
@FoulQ: I think Bertoncini's list looks like a pretty good place to start from, and I also agree that the Trinket Mage thing in the sideboard just looks awkward as hell to me. I can't imagine how playing Trinket Mage and searching for Chalice would do any good in the storm matchup (what I'm assuming Chalice is mostly there for), because it's so much slower than just packing four copies of Chalice. I'd rather aggressively mulligan for Chalice than have to play it on turn three.
Main-deck Pithing Needle is sort of interesting, but I'm not completely sold, especially since I have a knee-jerk reaction against Trinket Mage in this deck.
Also, I can't fathom what match-up one would want to bring in Engineered Explosives in for, since blowing it up is likely to eat up whatever board presence Merfolk has already established. I love E.E., I think it's one of the most elegant card designs basically ever... but using it in Merfolk sort of seems like Superman showing up to the party wearing a Kryptonite cape.
Also, I'm glad someone's doing the leg-work to test out my idea of Steely Resolve, since I haven't been to a Legacy tourney since GP Chicago, and my MWS account is desperately seeking a PC for me to play on. Please let me know if it does good things for you.
@Cosi's Trickster (the card): Color me unimpressed. I know, I know, I've been clamoring for another playable one-drop, but this dude just seems way too situational... I mean, maybe if he had first strike or evasion, or something. But as is, he's probably best against Zoo, and I get the sense he wouldn't even be all that good against them. Moving on...
@Caller of Gales (the card): This I could actually see us getting some use out of. In my experience, a common problem for Merfolk is that some decks can pretty quickly out-class our ground troops and create situations where it's just not favorable to swing. Which is pretty fucking gauche.
I'm really hoping this guy doesn't have to tap to activate his ability, but even if he does, I think he warrants some testing. I would try to fit in two copies, personally, since he's obviously not better than Cursecatcher, but I think his ability could swing a few matches in our favor. Hooray for a playable! Here's hoping he's printed as spoiled, or even better, without the tap as part of the activation.
I agree, I think having to tap to activate his ability is the killer. It's pretty dissapointing that all your lords +1/+1 goes to waste because you have to tap to activate. Either the flight ability is irrelevant or his P/T is.Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
There is a SCD thread about this guy. And I think I speak for everyone when I say he really isn't that great. Sure there is potential to be huge, but what happens when you draw him turn 4? What impact does he have on the board? What impact does he have against Ichorid like cursecatcher? I really don't think he would get much bigger than 4/4 in any game and that is with some major tap dancing. Cursecatcher just does more for the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by akiratheoni
When I first read Cosi's Trickster I went "oh not bad" but after some more thinking I had to come to the same conclusion like Duke. If you do not drop him Turn 1 he will never be more than a 1/1. Fetching usually is and has to be done during Turn 1-3. So you can expect Trickster to be like 3/3 or 4/4 if you are lucky (max). Within Zendikar featuring also new Fetchlands this makes sense from a design perspective. In Legacy this guy is only good on the starting hand and just good with opponents fetch lands when he is not playing red. This is far to narrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
Caller of Gales: Well actually I almost never had situations with Merfolks where there were two armies that were starring down at each other so a kind of mass evasion is not needed imho. In contrast there are a lot of games where I have more creatures and have to attack although my opponent has one relevant creature (Goyf) so that I loose one creature due to the block. For these situations Rejeerey is much more helpful then paying mana to avoid one blocker via Caller of Gales. If your creatures are already outclassed on the ground there is no reason to start a race via flying Folks. You will loose that race. If you look at Tidal Warrior the reason not to play him is quite similar. His evasion is more situational and depends on LoA but therefor he provides a more versatile ability that doesnt cost mana. He is not played in serious lists.
I personaly like the new 1 mana guy.
As somebody said earlier his place is most likely instead of Stifle in the versions that run it.
Reading trough this topic I saw some people complain that stifle's main drawback is the fact you have to let first turn mana free in order for the denial plan to work, and then there is the problem of the opponent simply playing the fetch and passing priority waiting for you to tap out and then he can freely fetch.
Well this little dork solves exactly that problem. If you play it first turn and they fetch something you gain tempo, something this deck realy wants.
If they don't fetch anything you basically don't loose tempo at all since if you had vial you would have played that instead of him, or even cursecatcher if you don't know what deck you are up against.
Also he improves one of our Zoo matchup, which is one of our worse matchups in the mono U build.
He does not need to grow beyond 3/3 to do that, the simple fact that he needs to be dealt with before he does it is a great advantage translated in "you use a removal for my 1 mana little dork", which in that matchup is very good, I prefer him being the target of remioval instead of my lord.
@DDK: About Steely Resolve, would you only side it in versus red? I sided it in once against a BW deck on MWS that played 8 smotherish effects or so and it was meh. Otherwise I haven't gotten enough data to say if really is strong or not. If it works out though, I think it might make the absolute law debate squashed. If it can match absolute law then green splash becomes much more favorable.
About the 1/1 dork. Remember that he gives your opponent the choice. Generally, in the history of magic, this has made cards significantly worse. Are there any relevant shuffle effects besides fetches, ponder, goblin matron, combo tutors? I can't think of any off the top of my head. For that amount, it appears he is definitely not worth it. If you want more oomph on your creatures, I would just play more lords. It has worked wonders for me. Sovereign + Merfolk + Jitte = unblockable jitte tokens. Oftentimes against non-blue decks that can be a game breaker. I realize that situation doesn't seem very common, but it has happened to me enough times in testing where I have found sovereign's unblockable ability to be surprisingly relevant.
Another alternative if you want more powerful creatures is to run tarmogoyf. Please leave any previous bias behind when considering the card, and consider the card for what it really is. I do not believe it fits in every deck, but he gives you a piece of fat that helps against aggro decks. And I realize discussion has been had about him many many times over, and that is why I'm going to leave that point at that. Just throwing it out there.
I see Cosi's Tricksters like Wake Thrasher...
Its a good card but it just wont cut it.
It deserves some playtesting though.
You do realize people still play wake thrasher... I mean, heh, comparting Cosi's Tricksters to Wake Thrasher is an insult to Wake Thrasher :-P. Or did you really just want to take up the whole "wake thrasher or no wake thrasher" discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
I'll rather try Caller of Gales over Cosi's Trickster.
Caller provides your merfs with evasion and away to deal with flyers aswell. While cosi is just a creature that grow's on his own (similarly like thrasher) but i'll pick thrasher over cosi anytime of the day...
Cosi is somewhat similar to the green druid forgot that grows when you cast spells.
And Quirion Dryad isnt playyed for years in Grow since the name Not Quite Grow (NQG)Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
I find myself looking at Into the Roil.
Into the Roil
instant
Kicker 1{U} (You may pay an additional 1{U} as you cast this spell.)
Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand. If Into the Roil was kicked, draw a card.
On its face, it looks alot like Repeal. But Repeal really sux against Chalice, Tombstalker, and a few other important permanents. I think it is more versatile, and so I like it.
Well stop testing Caller. An update has been made to the spoiler and it now only gives one creature flying.
Wouldn't Tidal Warrior be almost as good anyways? In combination with Lord of Atlantis, your guys can just Islandwalk to victory. One notable difference would be it's edge on Moat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stall_19
Not a fan of Cosi's Trickster. What decks fetch and tutor a lot? Survival, Zoo, combo...I'm probably missing some. I doubt it helps the Zoo matchup. While the Timmy in me grins in excitement of having Survival search a lot in one game, I'd rather stop their Survival. And our combo match is fine.
Potentially good, just not here.
Zoo is like ... Cosi's Trickster meeting one of the 20 direct burn spells rather sooner than later.Quote:
Originally Posted by chokin